Aoshi Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 actually i was pissed as hell about the double lightsaber thing. i know it is cool and all, but if you look at it realistically(i mean from a tactical point of view) when you use one side of the lightsaber to block you leave your back COMPLETELY open... what i dont understand is how two Jedi could lose to this Light Staff thingie. i mean THINK about it. I swing my staff down and to the left to block Qui-Gon's attack. At that very moment the other side of my staff is going up and to the right. Unless Darth Maul is wearing some sort of special armor or Obi-Wan is on drugs there is no possible way to not get stabbed in the back... literally, and during that fight scene there was substantial time when it was a 2v1. also if you think about it a lightstaff would be much slower than a light saber, thus how could you NOT attack him while he is blocking the other person. Maybe for 1v1 the light staff would be superior but the 2v1 was a bit overdramatic if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chastan Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 I thought Episode I was great... even better than A New Hope, in my opinion. If you don't think that, I don't think you realise all the things that it is leading into for the future movies. Jar Jar Binks is okay, I don't really like the way he walks, but I don't really think he detracts from the movie. And all of you who cry so much that Darth Maul shouldn't have died probably are the ones who worship Boba Fett. p.s. I have no comment on Jake Lloyd but give him a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 actually i was pissed as hell about the double lightsaber thing. i know it is cool and all, but if you look at it realistically(i mean from a tactical point of view) when you use one side of the lightsaber to block you leave your back COMPLETELY open... what i dont understand is how two Jedi could lose to this Light Staff thingie. i mean THINK about it. I swing my staff down and to the left to block Qui-Gon's attack. At that very moment the other side of my staff is going up and to the right. Unless Darth Maul is wearing some sort of special armor or Obi-Wan is on drugs there is no possible way to not get stabbed in the back... literally, and during that fight scene there was substantial time when it was a 2v1. also if you think about it a lightstaff would be much slower than a light saber, thus how could you NOT attack him while he is blocking the other person. Maybe for 1v1 the light staff would be superior but the 2v1 was a bit overdramatic if you ask me. Putting your lightstaff in the correct place to block would require what we like to call: skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micozade Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Its a shame they had to kill maul off but it had to happen so anakin could make the transition to vader. What would have been good is if anakin in ep2 could have defeated maul to take his place next to the emporer I do agree jar jar sucks. nuff said The whole C3PO thing bothers me . C3PO has no recolection of anakin skywalker in anh to tel luke maybehe had a memory wipe before they met. I do think that darth sidious and palpatine are two clones working together and sidious destroys palpatine when the republic is replaced by the empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartori Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Originally posted by Vestril Putting your lightstaff in the correct place to block would require what we like to call: skill. way, way to much. sure i can give you a sword, and still kill you with this knife, but that because i have been playing with blades since i was 8. would i even dream of trying that with even a first year ku? (non-ranked kendoist) HELL no. the double light sabre was another example of a stupid eye candy effect. hell just look at the number of times that Qui and Obi attacked the blade instead of Maul. the first, and most obvious example of poorly trained actors, is when the constantly swing for the blade vs the body. did i mention that the primary target for a swordman (western sabre or kendo) is the wrist? no watch ep1 and look how exposed Mauls wrists are ALL THE TIME! duh. -------------------------------------- the moon, the cool stream like a mirror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prowl lightstar Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 "But Sidious didn't even know who Anakin Skywalker was at that point...He certainly didn't know enough to know that Obi Wan would 'mess up' Anakin's training." Sidious (emperor palpatine) has tremendous foresight/clairvoyance through the power of the force. "Everything has proceeded as i have forseen" he says that in ROTJ. What makes you think that he didn't forsee everything to do with anikin, obi wan. He says to anikin "i'll be watchin your career with special interest." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 way, way to much. sure i can give you a sword, and still kill you with this knife, but that because i have been playing with blades since i was 8. would i even dream of trying that with even a first year ku? (non-ranked kendoist) HELL no. the double light sabre was another example of a stupid eye candy effect. hell just look at the number of times that Qui and Obi attacked the blade instead of Maul. the first, and most obvious example of poorly trained actors, is when the constantly swing for the blade vs the body. did i mention that the primary target for a swordman (western sabre or kendo) is the wrist? no watch ep1 and look how exposed Mauls wrists are ALL THE TIME! duh. The Force is a powerful ally--as to the skill required by Maul, and I do not know enough about swordsmanship to really debate with you on your points. What I do know is that Lightsaber combat is unlike anything that exists because it has to incorporate a blade that cuts on impact, no matter the pressure, and is dealing with people who have supernatural powers. It is, as I understand it a combination of several sword fighting techniques and was designed by a man who knows his stuff, if he were here I'm sure he could adequately defend the scenes he created "But Sidious didn't even know who Anakin Skywalker was at that point...He certainly didn't know enough to know that Obi Wan would 'mess up' Anakin's training." Sidious (emperor palpatine) has tremendous foresight/clairvoyance through the power of the force. "Everything has proceeded as i have forseen" he says that in ROTJ. What makes you think that he didn't forsee everything to do with anikin, obi wan. He says to anikin "i'll be watchin your career with special interest." It seems unlikely that the Emperor would be able to see Anakin in the future when even the most powerful Jedi of the Republic had no clue until they were standing on him. Also you will note that Palpatine does not notice the Force strong boy until he is right next to him, and the boy has accomplished much. For him to have used Maul as a sacraficial Pawn he would have had to know about Anakin much further into the past, and if he knew about the boy then why wouldn't he take him and train him to be a full on Sith Lord before Obi Wan and Qui Gon got anywhere near him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Also, Sartori--you are aware that in general a Staff is far superior to a sword in terms of fighting ability I assume. While you might not want to take on multiple opponents with a sword, would you perhaps consider it with a staff? Just another thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chastan Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Originally posted by Sartori the first, and most obvious example of poorly trained actors, is when the constantly swing for the blade vs the body. It has nothing to do with the training of the actors. You are an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aNaL tHeRapisT Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 *takes notes on this thread, prepares for action* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XERXES Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 welcome (with brittish accent) anal therapist. Hope you have a pleasant stay here at lucas forums:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycoglass Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Episode 1 just was not star wars thats all I have to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoshi Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 well, vestril actually it would take skill but think about how much speed would be required to block two jedi's attacking from opposite directions at once with one long rod that you could only hold in the middle. maul would have to be almost 4 times as fast as both Qui-gon and Obi-Wan. Maybe he is a sith lord but dont forget that Qui-gon is a Jedi Master. All in all i dont think he can be THAT much faster than both Qui-gon and Obi-wan at the same time. Also i know what im talking about i studied Tai-Kwon-Do, Karate, and Kung-fu for years. in order to defeat two opponents coming from opposite sides you would have to be faster than both of them combined ESPECIALLY if you couldnt kill them both in the first hit. Also imagine the stamina that speed like that would require. Even if Maul were 4x faster than his attackers he would be dead of overexertion, and maybe if he just held a humongous lightsaber it would be better cause then he could use a spinning technique while jumping and ducking to avoid blows. As it is though the double bladed lightsaber is impractical and would lose every time to two lightsabers(and especially two jedi's working as one) unless the wielder of two lightsabers was a moron and used both to attack at once like a double overhead swing. In that case he doesnt need two lightsabers and would do much better with a lightstaff thingie cause he's gonna get slaughtered anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoshi Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 oh and in response to your whole lightstaff being superior to lightsaber... lightsabers are much quicker and easier to swing. in a 1v1 the speed wouldnt matter as much cause all your attacks would be focused in 1 place but when it gets to 2v1 you would need either 1 or 2 lightsabers used separately so that you could block and attack multiple targets at once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 oh and in response to your whole lightstaff being superior to lightsaber... lightsabers are much quicker and easier to swing. in a 1v1 the speed wouldnt matter as much cause all your attacks would be focused in 1 place but when it gets to 2v1 you would need either 1 or 2 lightsabers used separately so that you could block and attack multiple targets at once So in combat, a sword is a superior weapon to a staff? Interesting, that is not how I had it explained to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralLee Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 I would have to agree with Sartori and Aoshi. The lightstaff was lame. I'm no sword fighting purist, but it really pissed me off the way Maul faught off two jedi the way he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caldera Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 also if you think about it a lightstaff would be much slower than a light saber, thus how could you NOT attack him while he is blocking the other person. Your sir, are officially on drugs ^_^ As far as i have understood, lightsabres do not WEIGH anything, and are not EASIER to swing than any other lightsaber. They only part of the lightsaber that has any significant WEIGHT is the handle. And i truly doubt a double bladed handle WEIGHS alot more than a single handle to an extent which it would slow down a dark lord of the sith who trains 24/7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartori Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 Originally posted by Chastan It has nothing to do with the training of the actors. You are an idiot. actually it does entirely. they are practicing a set series of moves, not reacting to a real combat situation and so the bad ones (most) dont attack where opening is, they attack the blade after it has already moved. sit down and watch any series of movies (or TV shows) whos focus is swords. it is VERY obvious who knows what they are doing and who is simply reacting to the actions of the other. Most times they are both reacting to each other defensive maneuvers, I block high, you swing high, you block left I swing left…very, very silly. Compare: Zena v Highlander the Musketeer v. The Princess Bride i could go on with other examples of poor actors and bad sword choreography, but you sir are not worth the moisture in my breath, or the electrons it takes to transmit this message. so find a dime amidst the crumbs and fleas infesting the couch your fat ass sits in all day and buy a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 i could go on with other examples of poor actors and bad sword choreography, but you sir are not worth the moisture in my breath, or the electrons it takes to transmit this message. so find a dime amidst the crumbs and fleas infesting the couch your fat ass sits in all day and buy a clue. You really are a fool, aren't you? Do you understand why he wrote that message? It was to provoke precisely the response he elicited. Perhaps you need to learn the art of acting rather than reacting, my friend. Generally speaking simply reacting with more rude remarks is not an intelligent way of behaving. I would think that someone trained in martial arts would be a little more aware of such things, and would behave in a more disciplined manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chastan Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 Originally posted by Sartori actually it does entirely. they are practicing a set series of moves, not reacting to a real combat situation and so the bad ones (most) dont attack where opening is, they attack the blade after it has already moved. ... so find a dime amidst the crumbs and fleas infesting the couch your fat ass sits in all day and buy a clue. My point is it doesn't have anything to do with the actors. It has to do with the choreographers. And it's great to know that you're smart enough to think of such a witty reply. Unfortunately, I don't have a couch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartori Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 Originally posted by Vestril Also, Sartori--you are aware that in general a Staff is far superior to a sword in terms of fighting ability I assume. While you might not want to take on multiple opponents with a sword, would you perhaps consider it with a staff? Just another thought. not sure i completely agree with that. multiple opponents isnt so much of an issue. (although i would prefer 2 blades for a more defensive posture against multiple opponents) a staff is generally better as a defensive weapon (granted the double sabre is more offensive than a staff, but it also give up the advantages of reach as maul cant really change his grip on it the way you can with a jo or bo) in addition once a swordsman is inside the staff wielders swing arc the advantage shifts significantly. the hands are now very vulnerable and the staff user cannot generate much momentum with his swings. A light sabre would, theoretically, have some properties that would change the nature of sword play, ex: they must have some 'sticky' property to keep attacks with opposition (pressure on the blade) from being able to graze downward and remove your opponent hands (no guards) however the fundamentals would remain the same. ----------------- it cuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartori Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 Originally posted by Vestril You really are a fool, aren't you? Do you understand why he wrote that message? It was to provoke precisely the response he elicited. Perhaps you need to learn the art of acting rather than reacting, my friend. Generally speaking simply reacting with more rude remarks is not an intelligent way of behaving. I would think that someone trained in martial arts would be a little more aware of such things, and would behave in a more disciplined manner. some times you take an invitation even when you know they want you to. expecting the riposte you plan a counter, do they know that? how far ahead is everyone thinking? what happens if you break the time? fencing is often refered to as "physical chess" because once you have the fundamentals its 80% mental. flame wars are only another form of dueling. in that vein Originally posted by Chastan My point is it doesn't have anything to do with the actors. It has to do with the choreographers. your point is far wide and never threatened target. No the choreographer may have planned the actions in the correct sequence (we will never know, but I assume that since R.Parks did the choreography he did) the actor puts it into motion, and since in this case the choreographer was involved, the actor reacts to, rather than executing his own moves. Poor training. Swing for the opening, it is the defenders job to move the blade to parry it and counter attack. Originally posted by Chastan And it's great to know that you're smart enough to think of such a witty reply. Unfortunately, I don't have a couch. ah ignorant and poor, a winning combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 not sure i completely agree with that. multiple opponents isnt so much of an issue. (although i would prefer 2 blades for a more defensive posture against multiple opponents) a staff is generally better as a defensive weapon (granted the double sabre is more offensive than a staff, but it also give up the advantages of reach as maul cant really change his grip on it the way you can with a jo or bo) in addition once a swordsman is inside the staff wielders swing arc the advantage shifts significantly. the hands are now very vulnerable and the staff user cannot generate much momentum with his swings. A light sabre would, theoretically, have some properties that would change the nature of sword play, ex: they must have some 'sticky' property to keep attacks with opposition (pressure on the blade) from being able to graze downward and remove your opponent hands (no guards) however the fundamentals would remain the same. Interesting, I can certainly see the difference in terms of range, and I imagine it would be an interesting fight to watch, the Staffman and Swordsman trying to keep each themselves at the advantageous range... Anyway I should probably not ask more of these questions before I let myself get too far OT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inSpiRe- Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 i think u guys are forgetting one important detail: jedis never use the force for attack. the force also includes using the lightsaber. the only reason obi-wan killed maul is because he turned bad for a short while. the hate built up in him, and he attacked with hatred. this also brings up the point that only hatred can defeat a sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 some times you take an invitation even when you know they want you to. expecting the riposte you plan a counter, do they know that? how far ahead is everyone thinking? what happens if you break the time? fencing is often refered to as "physical chess" because once you have the fundamentals its 80% mental. flame wars are only another form of dueling. in that vein What is the quote? Arguing on the internet is like playing in the Special Olympics, it doesn't matter who wins, you're all retarted. I think that's it, or something like it. I don't mean any offense to retarded people, it's just that it's rather pointless, and it doesn't get anything done, and a more appropriate way of dealing with it is ignoring the flames. I get caught up in flame wars myself sometimes, but I try not to. The truth is that it's really pointless, and people like Chastan come on here with the sole purpose of inflaming others (trust me, I have some insider info on this one )...the point is that he really doesn't care about these things, so you're getting angry and worked up, putting effort into making him angry and worked up...and it can't work and the reasonable thing to do is ignore it. I'm glad that you are intelligent enough to have noticed that he was trying to inflame you, though Anyway, just consider ignoring idiots like Charles, they don't really know what they're talking about, and they know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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