TuskenUK Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 JEEEEEEEEEEZUZ you people lol Well has NOBODY thought to look at the most obvious piece of evidence? Voices! Jango Fett and HIS clones = Aussie accents Stormtroopers = US Accents Stormtrooper Officers = English, American Stormptrooper officers are also simply stormtroopers who have been promoted. Look around the Death Star - is everyone coned? Why would the Empire only keep cloned ultra-dedicated soldiers when they could clone the best and most dedicated officers and not have people like Motti and Ozzell who question and mess up? What would be the point in having super-dedicated cloned troops, but inept, normal humans for EVERY SINGLE OTHER JOB! Foooooools. STORMTROOPERS DO NOT = CLONES Also on the C3-PO issue. If you BOTHERED to watch EpII and the OT, you would notice that C3-PO has a change of coverings. AND ALSO do you reeeally think that C3-P0 is the only droid of his kind..my oh my, i seem to remember one JUST LIKE HIM only silver in the Tantive IV and on the Trade Federation droid control ship in EP1....but no.....WAIT! It's George lucas who's the complete idiot! I mean droid factories OBVIOUSLY only make one kind of droid, each with their own individual personalities and voices...god how stupid of me it's obvious people. Just think instead of mindlessly criticising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 Accents aren't in the genes. If you live somewhere long enough, you will adopt the accent of the region (like my dad, when he lived in Texas, and then he's lost it since we moved north). The voices of the Stormtroopers in the original trillogy are very similar to eachother and to the tone of voice of Jango Fett, despite the lack of an accent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornskir Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 I want to add my 2 credits to the stormtrooper issue. In the first couple of pages of the new Star Wars book series, "The New Jedi Order", there is a very good timeline. It shows that ATOC takes place 22 years before the original Star Wars. A lot can happen in 22 years, including new uniforms/armor getting created for the Empire's troops. Also, only 2 years will pass between ATOC and Episode III so I don't know how much will actually change between the 2 movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Qui-Gon Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 I don't think they're clones. If nothing else, they have individuality and the clones don't. Besides, stormtroopers were named after Hitler's stormtroopers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildheart73 Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 i dont think there clones either,in anh when luke + solo mug the stormtroopers gear dont u think they'ed have seen there faces and gone"hey up,these guys r identical......etc" but.....emmm........ this gives me a idea 4 another topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 I believe that stormtroopers are a mixture of clones and recruits. I imagine that clones would be very expensive, so why use such expensive measures when you can simply conscript the population of a planet when the Empire comes to power. The Empire would use the expensive clones as crack troops and the recruits/conscripts (Davin Felth) as the stupid can't hit anything garrison troops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNoodles Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Another reason that Stormtroopers aren't clones... Part of the reason that Jango was kept around Kamino was because they had to keep taking DNA samples from him as the previous samples would become tainted or something. Since, Jango dies in EP2 the clones would have to stop being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 So, does that mean the stormtroopers are just normal humans? That doesn't make sense, because the Empire has an infinite supply of them, almost. Are normal people really that willing to die. Another thing, stormtroopers always die really easily cause they can't move about or see out of their helmets. How about they wear normal clothes-maybe then they'd live a little bit longer, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorain8 Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 somebody call Lucas up and ask him OYA TO THIS Where is Davin Felth's name in the movie? No where, therefore it's liable to change if Lucas wants to Stormtroopers abandoned individuality in exchange for their loyalty. RIGHT OUT OF THE HORSES MOUTH goto starwars.com look at the stormtrooper section CLONES NEVER HAVE INDIVIDUALITY!!!!! SO THEY CAN'T BE STRIPPED OF IT you don't know who davin felth is tisk tisk YOU CALL YOURSELF A STARWARS FAN! i know about alot of this stuff because i not only watched the movies read most of the books BUT I PLAYED THE CCG GAME (card game) which lucas made just for the movies NO EXPSANDED UNIVERSE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO BOOKS HERE straight from the movies!!! Jango Fett and HIS clones = Aussie accents NOW ACCENTS ARE ONE THING but completely different voices are another an accent you can fake a pitch of a voice and its tone impossible! OYA IF YOU WANNA KNOW WHO DAVIN FELTH IS BUY THE ESSENTIAL HANDBOOK TO CHARACTERS HE IS IN THERE HIS 1ST APPEARENCE IS EP 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorain8 Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 So, does that mean the stormtroopers are just normal humans? That doesn't make sense, because the Empire has an infinite supply of them, almost. Are normal people really that willing to die THINK OF HOW LARGE CHINA'S ARMY IS THEY ARE 1 COUNTRY ON THIS PLANET HOW MANY MORE TROOPS DO YOU THINK CHINA WOULD HAVE IF THEY CONTROLED COUNTLESS PLANETS???????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorain8 Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 LEMME GUESS EWOKS WERE ALL CLONES OF EACHOTHER 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 You need to lay off the trip man...and about the subject, I'll take your word for it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 CLONES NEVER HAVE INDIVIDUALITY!!!!! SO THEY CAN'T BE STRIPPED OF IT Boba Fett is a Clone, he has a personality. We also get a look at a Clone in Episode II who looks as though he doesn't like being surrounded by thousands of people who look just like him (while Obi-Wan is going through the Cloning Facility and we get a look at the clones eating). Clones are just like identical twins, as someone else has said--they're not droids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_Ben Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 If they aren't clones then why does Leia ask Luke in ANH "aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper." You'd think if they weren't clones they'd have varying heights. Or was that just purely a joke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 Originally posted by Duncan Barr I am 99% Stormtroopers ARE clones. And much more than a policeforce! For a start this has been well known since 1977- for those of us old enough to have been there- plus putting clones in armour similar to stormtrooper armour also points to this. After all why abandon the effective troops who help you rule the universe- that would make zero sense!!!!! Well outside of the mind of Lucas- where he can make it up as he goes along!!! The following link shows they ARE an elite unit, NOT A POLICEFORCE- although mention of clones is limited to Admiral Thrawn- presumably because for younger fans this will be an Ep3 spoiler (or worse Lucas has changed his mind). Also check the original Star Wars novelisation for more info on them being clones: http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/stormtroopers/eu.html We will know for sure in 3 years time!! ANH shows that you're wrong in a rather clear way. Ben's point is good, but there is also the fact that Han and Luke are walking down the corridors and Han is obviously taller than Luke, Officers would notice this immediately if they were used to Troopers being the same height. What's more, since in AotC the officers are all Clones as well (Different colored uniforms), it would stand to reason that in the OT the officers would be clones if the troopers were clones. This may not be absolute proof that they are not clones, but if it only leaves 1% doubt in your mind, there's something wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
She'ba Katana Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 I think Caliban had a good point. After AotC there are millions of Clone troppers, and they are going to wipe out the sepratists. As they showed in AotC they are superior to the droids, so still maybe millions of clones will survive the Clone wars. (By the way, the Clones are troops on these Ships looking like Star-Destroyers) And as we see, the Kamonians are still producing millions of them. So you can't say, that there will be no clones left at ANH. It may be possible that the Jedi (or the rebbels), had been clever enough to destroy the cloning facility. So a mixture of clones and recruits makes a lot of sense. (By the way. Cloning Officers would make no sense at all. The imperial Officers had to manage a great variety of jobs, while the clones just had to fight or lead a war. But as we heard in AotC they modified the DNA of Jango to make the clones more compliant. That wouldn't be effective for the imperial Officers.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNoodles Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 The clones wouldn't live long enough to be in ANH. They were only 10 years old in AOTC and looked about 25-30 years old. That means the 1 million more on the way would be about 50-60 by the time ANH rolls around. Not much of an army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havoc Stryphe Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 Okay, so much to post... First to say Stromtroopers are not clones based on books is like saying Boba Fett is named Jaster Mereel and used to be an imperial journeyman, um... not anymore! So, books are not canon and are obviously subject to being changed and/or refuted. Secondly, the accent thing. Sure Clones of Jango are going to have an accent, but Jango's dead. The next "template" for the clones may not have an accent. Something to think about... Then, who would have outlawed clones after the war? Well, it's kinda obvious... that's right... Palpatine. Now tell me that makes sense. Palpatine is going to eliminate his source of a fast and extremely loyal army right when he's about to rock the boat by declaring himself Emperor. I don't think so! Maybe he would make it illegal for other people to be making clones, but do you honestly think that this purely evil man who uses clones as the backbone of his rise to power is going to stop using them because people don't like them? right... Yes, Leia says to Luke in the detention area "Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?" This implies that Stormtroopers are a set height. But this is not damning evidence, just a little help that's all But here's another food for thought: In Episode 4: A New Hope the Imperial officer on the Death Star called for teh Stormtrooper who was ambushed by Luke, Chewie, Obiwan and Han on the Falcon. Remember what he called him? That's right TK421, a serial number. That's all clones are: numbers. If they were conscripts , then why not call them private smith or trooper smith. We already see the definate conscripts (The Generals, Admirals, and officers) being referred to by name, not number. i.e. General Veers, Admiral Needa, Captain Piet. Are you telling me they started out as numbers and then get names? That doesn't work so well. Also, As far as being to old and dying too fast. They were accelerated to full maturity, but then are allowed to grow at normal rate. They don't continue to grow at an accelerated rate after they mature. They need an army fast, not a bunch of kids. But what would be the point of making an army that grows to old to use in a matter of 10 years! Look at Boba, he was taken off the accelerated growth at a youg age, he ages normal now. The Clonetroopers are taken off it at around the age 18-25, then grow at normal rate. Clones don't just age that way because they are clones. They are injected/fed/etc something that allows them to grow faster, but then grow at normal rate when that stimulant is not used anymore. Otherwise Boba would have been ancient by Episode 4-6. The idea that Stormtroopers are a mix of clones and conscripts is certainly viable. But to say that stormtroopers are not clones at this point, is a bit rash and basically throwing out logic in favor of saving your EU stories being shattered and rendered moot. Clonetroopers are the Republic army, but when Palpatine becomes Emperor, he makes some changes. The armor will change and he'll call them Stormtroopers for a fear factor and most importantly, to signify taht the Old Republic is truly dead. The clones are led and commanded by conscripts, the officers, Admirals, Captains, and Generals. Republic-> Clonetroopers Empire-> Stormtroopers Same thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
She'ba Katana Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 May be the first million of Clones would be too old to fight. But what about the millions of Babyclones you can see at Kamino in AotC ? And what about the next order, which the Kaminoian mentioned, which they will need more time for ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 The fact that Jango Fett died answered the question. They kept having to take blood samples, and if he's around no longer, then the army will not survive for long. It's only a matter of time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyJedi Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 Originally posted by She'ba Katana May be the first million of Clones would be too old to fight. But what about the millions of Babyclones you can see at Kamino in AotC ? And what about the next order, which the Kaminoian mentioned, which they will need more time for ? That's right. The creature says that 200,000 are ready and 1 million are on the way, but it will take some time. How long? We do not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havoc Stryphe Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 Originally posted by Darklighter The fact that Jango Fett died answered the question. They kept having to take blood samples, and if he's around no longer, then the army will not survive for long. It's only a matter of time... Right, cause as everyone knows, Jango Fett is the only man who can be cloned in the entire Star Wars Universe Why can't they use someone else as the clone template? That would explain why the Stormtroopers of the OT don't have an accent. And do you guys enjoy skipping over posts? I just posted a long post in the attempt to support the "Stormtroopers are Clones" camp. Please read that in it's entirety, then refute all points before posting stuff like: "The fact that Jango Fett died answered the question" to prove Stormtroopers aren't clones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 Originally posted by Darklighter The fact that Jango Fett died answered the question. They kept having to take blood samples, and if he's around no longer, then the army will not survive for long. It's only a matter of time... Why would they have to keep taking blood samples? They presumably have his genetic structure on file... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 ANH shows that you're wrong in a rather clear way. Ben's point is good, but there is also the fact that Han and Luke are walking down the corridors and Han is obviously taller than Luke, Officers would notice this immediately if they were used to Troopers being the same height. Lucas took that senario from old Flash Gordon serials; doesn't have to make sense, it just had to happen for the story. Lucas is writing a morality play, a fantasy, not something that's 100% realistic. What's more, since in AotC the officers are all Clones as well (Different colored uniforms), it would stand to reason that in the OT the officers would be clones if the troopers were clones. The Troop officers were in uniforms, but they were still being commanded by the Jedi. Yoda was taking the place of General Veers in ESB. Stormtroopers are a different entity from any other branch of the Imperial army, and they can be commanded by the officers of any of the branches above them, the army Generals and the Fleet Admirals and Captains... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinstar02 Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 I keep seeing people saying things about the empire and the republic that differentiate between them. You do all understand that they are one and the same right? The Republic becomes what is referred to as the Empire when the New Republic (rag tag freedom fighters anyone?) is formed. The New Republic is just a bunch of people who dont like what the republic has become (an empire). The process really began in Ep2 with Palpatine being given dictatorial power. Just thought I would point this out. -TS02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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