Outsider's view of JKII 1.03

[Dark Begger]

just put it this way, since I've been playing 1.03, in FF 1v1 duels, I have never been pulled from any distance further than the length of my light saber...the only time I have ever fallen from a pull is a roll/pull or after I do a DFA ( although it's nerfed, it'sstill fun to use ..not useful though..) and they guy comes up and pulls me down THEN backstabs me..which I'm perfectly fine with. I have always been able to counter a pull (like not fall down, and not get pulled far) any distance greater than that with a full force pool.

[C'jais]

Now, I got the game 3-4 days *before* the dreaded patch came out. Some of you will probably say that that means i have no say at all in this matter, i'm a skillless n00b and so on. I will only say that i didn't get into the "old" tactics and method of playing, and consequently didn't have to adapt to the patch.

 

I'll stand up and say every day that a developer has a vision of how their game should be, and they will patch it if it furthers that vision. Raven's vision is obviously starwars and the focus on lightsaber battles. The patch got the game *closer* to that vision, but also failed to achieve the "vision/gameplay" balance, which is why i really expect a new patch to come out some time.

 

Now you can actually block, cool eh? Well, not too cool, since they made the blocking arc way too big (possible to block attacks from the rear).

 

Now the lightsabres give less damage so we can have longer, drawn-out fights like in the movies, cool eh? Not so, since they also made more blocking, so the fights drag on *endlessly*. This is where Raven failed IMHO.

 

As I said, i'd rather play 1.03 because i grew up with it, and the idea of jousting is completely abhorrent to me and dreadfully reminds me of the jk1 saber fights. So, for me, it provides more fun and is closer to the movie feel. Backstab is something i could not live with, if it wasn't for the fair people i play with, and the private servers i frequent.

 

The patch made the game better, but it isn't complete or perfect in any way. Raven still has time to fix their design flaws.

[Dark Begger]

Very good response...but there's one problem..

 

The thing is, Raven did not patch it to bring it closer to 'their' vision...rather it was patched for the people on here..the 'whiners' vision...thus it did not bring them closer to their vision at all. As for the rest, I cannot agree with all of it, as I do not think 1.03 is better, but I do agree with teh blocking being nice...and the damage decrease bad. If the damage was reverted back to 1.02 with this blocking system, backstabbers would be destroyed since they cannot block attacks to their back and will have to think twice before going in as they could die instantly.

[Bambers]

These are my thoughts on the patches:

 

The damage of normal strikes should go up from the 1.03 patch. 40/60/80 or 30/60/90 for blue yellow and red. The backstabs should do the same damage as a normal strike and also need to be considered as a normal swing so that with the extra sabre tracing cvar (the big cause of the added blocking although the arc needs to be reduced) it only strikes the same number of times per second as a normal swing. The specials seem to hit about 3x as fast. The heavy backstab needs a new animation, one that is as slow as the other heavy swings.

 

With the force powers i think the best way to restore balance to the force () would to be to stop pull and push knocking people down especially if they have the same level of the opposite power as you. (if you have level 3 push and pull and are close when someone pulls you with their level 3 you WILL end up on your arse). This would drastically reduce the power of absorb without even altering it directly.

 

I think kick should be reverted to a single jump as well. Now you can kick from far away and some 56kers have trouble kicking at all.

[GE Predator]

Am I playing on a different version of JO 1.02 or something? Where did this illusion that you can't block in 1.02 come from? I can block ON PURPOSE all the time. See, the trick is you can't be swinging your saber non stop. If ya do, you'll never block, ever.

 

The whole idea with saber battles in 1.02 was to play consciously, and not rely on luck to win the day. When someone swings at you, FACE THEM and DO NOT swing, don't look at the pretty background and expect your saber to magically block when your not even facing the guy, and you'll block the hit.

 

Like sheeit, I have the most intense duels in 1.02 with my clan mates cause we all learned how to duel. And it wasn't something that happened in a couple days. After the first month of JO's release we were having more fun then ever before with the sabers. A couple beginners have even learned from us when we hosted duels on the zone and they became formidable opponents .

 

It's VERY possible to have close contact duels in 1.02, where you and the other guy are almost face to face, and not taking turns batting at eachother from 6 ot 7 player distances away. AND you can still block.

 

The only trouble I have personally is blocking strong stance downward swings. But yeah, if you play a decent opponent, you'll realise that move has considerable risks since it's so slow and your open to take multiple fast stance hits or 1 or 2 med ones. Maybe even a heavy if the person swung at the same time as you. I use it for people who are running or on the ground or if they jump with force jump, cause ya can sometimes catch them on the way down lol. Like in the Bespin Air Vanes map LOL, SO funny to just send em back (sometimes they hit the steam) or into the pit.

 

And I'm not BSing this either. Ya just had to learn to duel in 1.02, whereas in 1.03 there's absolutely no learning curve at all. Which is why I hate it. It sucked the fun right out of dueling since any n00b can dominate a server with luck. And the timing of swings is shot to hell cause of all the magical blocking everyone has.

[Dark Begger]

Thank you..you took the words STRAIGHT out of my mouth...1.02 had a higher learning curve and people were reluctant to ride it, and thus 1.03 came out.

[Agen]

Originally posted by Dark Begger

If you think 1.03 is better than 1.02, and like all the saber changes, then you my friend, are a n00b, and did not take the time to learn how to saber well in 1.02. The only thing that could possibly have needed changing was the after effect of the DFA. THAT'S IT....everything else was balanced, and each battle in duel was as heated as the next. You could die in two hits (not including DFA, since that is easily defendable). Medium killed in 2 hits. Heavy killed in 2 hits. no difference. Heavy was slow and after swinging leaves you wide open for attack from faster attacks. Medium was quicker but does less damage than heavy. They both have their strengths and then obviously inturn have their weaknesses. The only arguement is that light COULD have been tweaked to make ti more evenly matched with medium and heavy.

 

1.03 is bad, and the fact taht you are complaining AGAIN is even worse. Just play the game and leave it as is, for there will always be a 1 hit move, and it will always be abused. so shut up and learn how to defend against it.

 

I jsut about disagree with everything u said there.

I boguht the game day 1 and learned it very well,

Everything else was not balanced

DFA was definately not defendable, unless u scrammed and sometimes it wasd hard to see fro 56kers like moi

er... it depends what time of hit u try to kill them, they aren't all the same

I never complained in the first place

You obviously haven't palyed enough, if u play a good palyer that spams backstab chances are very low.

 

Am I playing on a different version of JO 1.02 or something? Where did this illusion that you can't block in 1.02 come from? I can block ON PURPOSE all the time. See, the trick is you can't be swinging your saber non stop. If ya do, you'll never block, ever.

 

U mix things up alot, it wasn't reliable at all.

[Colonel Fury]

I also started playing JKII 2 to 3 days before the patch. My biggest problem, post-patch, is with the players that spam pull+backstab combol. When you are playing darkside (more fun IMO) you are completely defenseless against this when engaged in 1-on-1 combat. If it were changed so that only push knocks you to the ground (and at a distance) I think everything with 1.03 would be perfect.

[Dark Begger]

well I'm sorry, but it's time to upgrade yoru internet connection, I have also been playing from day one, I remember waiting at the friggin store to get first grabs on the game...

 

I have DSL, and means I played 5-6 hours a day or more. On 56k, I do not know fi you can fully experience the intensity of the game, and yes, you will be put at a hinderance with 1.02.

 

But, first of all, DFA is not defendable, but you can move out of the way..again, your 56k is a downfall to that, but we can't change the game because 56k users can't defend against it. If that's the case, then they shouldn't make new games do to the fact that some people have slower processor speeds and can't play as well..same sort of thing there..if you want the good game, you don't complain to the company to cater to you, you upgrade and buy yourself a better system so that doesn't doesn't put you at a downfall.

 

Next, yes timing is different for each swing, but if you took the time to learn them all, (like I have..except for light stance) then there is no problem, and you will have timing for each and every move.

 

As for your last sentence..I could not make sense of it.

 

If you are on 56k, that means you do not use the internet that much, I am involved in a company as a webpage designer, and am online quite a bit, and play JK2 like no other. So although you may have been playing from day 1, I have been playing atleast 6 hours a day from day 1, so I'm SURE I beat you there.

 

So the main points of this post if you're lazy to read:

 

56k user - upgrade or settle for the consequences, not ask them to change the game to better suit you.

 

Balance? - The game was quite balanced, you just had to have the timing down...since you couldn't with 56k, I can forgive you for that.

 

Telling me you've been playing since day 1 - so have I, and I play 6 hours a day or more...you on 56k, I would think less than 3 hours a day..if that.

 

Call me a geek all you want, I play this much because I loved the game. If you flame me about how much I play, it's obvious that you cannot retort to my answers above.

[Dark Begger]

And did I say I am part of a clan and actively participate in finding new combinations of moves to post on our clan forums? So it was partly my JOB to learn the moves...so dont' tell me you've learned the moves more than I have..1.02, I knew all the devastating moves and how to counter them..not trying to brag, but just saying don't give the the bs that I didn't know the game well enough. If you thoguht the game was unbalanced, then YOU my friend did not know the game well enough.

[Patton]

Originally posted by Dark Begger

If you think 1.03 is better than 1.02, and like all the saber changes, then you my friend, are a n00b, and did not take the time to learn how to saber well in 1.02.

 

Ow. That hurts. I like 1.03. I guess I'm a n00b.

 

But take note: when I play 1.03, I have more fun than I did in 1.02. Whether I die or not is inconseqential. I enjoy the long, drawn out saber battles that go on right now. I like how the saber system is more like the single player game. I like the lack of a learning curve.

 

Allow me to tell you something else: not everyone can be a "l33t d00d" like you and your buddies who apparently sat around all day playing 1.02 to learn how to joust well, and win all day. I'm perfectly fine with being at the top, middle, or bottom of the list. Beating someone doesn't make me a better player, and someone beating me doesn't make them a better player. This bull**** about being a "n00b" is re-goddamn-diculous.

 

A couple more things: If you hate the patch so much, don't install it. On the other end, don't be a hypocrit. I wasn't whining for a new patch before, and I won't now, but you're doing the same thing the whiners did pre-patch. You want Raven to change the game back so that everyone will be back on square one, and you won't shutup till you get your way. If you're so goddamn good at this game, then stop whining about it on some message board, and learn to live with the changes, like almost everyone else has.

[Dark Begger]

Very good points, I'm glad there is a calm member out there who isn't quick to make fun (unless some of those remarks were sarcastic). Anyways,

 

I play 1.03, I can do well in it, I dislike it, but I can still hold my own..granted I'm not as good as before..but I'm still above average.

 

The reason I started 'complaining' on this post was because of the people complaining about back stab. I agree with you, we shouldn't complain, but the people complaining about backstab will get this move destroyed. Then another move will appear and it too, will be destroyed, then anoter, and another... If everyone decided to play the game and learn to counter the backstab, the amount of backstabbers would diminish and also no changes would have had to take place. I do not know how this turned over into a debate between 1.02 and 1.03, but I guess I was slowly brought to that subject. for that I am sorry.

[Agen]

well I'm sorry, but it's time to upgrade yoru internet connection, I have also been playing from day one, I remember waiting at the friggin store to get first grabs on the game...

 

U forget a phrase called " not available in your area" and also "£38.75 a month for broadband and anyway i cna kick msot peps ass"

 

I have DSL, and means I played 5-6 hours a day or more. On 56k, I do not know fi you can fully experience the intensity of the game, and yes, you will be put at a hinderance with 1.02.

 

My friend who lvies out side my area (pretty far) has a cable modem and seriously, apart from the split timing difference, it's basicly the same. Trust me

 

But, first of all, DFA is not defendable

 

He said that

 

but you can move out of the way..again, your 56k is a downfall to that, but we can't change the game because 56k users can't defend against it. If that's the case, then they shouldn't make new games do to the fact that some people have slower processor speeds and can't play as well..same sort of thing there..if you want the good game, you don't complain to the company to cater to you, you upgrade and buy yourself a better system so that doesn't doesn't put you at a downfall.

 

Er.. i said soemtimes, read thouraly and at no time did i ever say they should make it better for 56kers.

 

Next, yes timing is different for each swing, but if you took the time to learn them all, (like I have..except for light stance) then there is no problem, and you will have timing for each and every move.

 

I was statinga ponit not compalining or saying it's too hard.

 

As for your last sentence..I could not make sense of it.

 

How hard is it to read that blocknig wasn't reliable, you could run by and hit and they coudln't block it damn it. expecting or not.

 

If you are on 56k, that means you do not use the internet that much, I am involved in a company as a webpage designer, and am online quite a bit, and play JK2 like no other. So although you may have been playing from day 1, I have been playing atleast 6 hours a day from day 1, so I'm SURE I beat you there.

 

your sureness is you downfall, because i have a 56k deos not make me internet disabled, i am on 3-7 hours a day no matter waht u say it's true and you cannot say anything against that.

I am a graphics designer and i am constantly online at work, i'm not including that time either. otherwise it'd be at least 12 hours a day. I do not mean to say i am on 24/7but an awful lot.

 

Balance? - The game was quite balanced, you just had to have the timing down...since you couldn't with 56k, I can forgive you for that.

why has no one made a sigh smilie yet, u idiots.

 

Telling me you've been playing since day 1 - so have I, and I play 6 hours a day or more...you on 56k, I would think less than 3 hours a day..if that.

 

You think wrong

 

56k user - upgrade or settle for the consequences, not ask them to change the game to better suit you.

 

1. Can't

2. Never did

 

I lvee saying this

 

Call me a geek all you want, I play this much because I loved the game. If you flame me about how much I play, it's obvious that you cannot retort to my answers above.

 

Just Did

 

----> . <----

[jarek]

PULL + BACKSTAB IS POSSIBLE TO STOP!

 

its called absorb. make a hotkey.

and if your a dark jedi, use rage.

 

falling on the ground is your real problem. the whole idea behind pulling someone on the ground (and this is before backstab was used) is that when youre laying on the ground you are 100% vulnerable to ALL attacks. thats the way the force pull was designed. of course there is nothing you can do! duh, thats why people do it!

 

just like when someone pushes u off a cliff theres nothing u can do about it. youre helpless in both situations, why is falling off a cliff an acceptable helpless situation and not the pull + backstab? cuz you like to whine.

 

use common sense.

[Father Time]

I think, 1.03 plain sucks ass.

 

And is way to unbalanced.

 

1.02 has some flaws (Visible F.absorb) but is way better balanced in gameplay.

 

I down graded it to 1.02 and I'm just addicted to JK2 again!!!

 

I'm having so much fun in 1.02. While 1.03 was "I'm trying to get better on this but this ain't no fun" for hours.

 

So, screw 1.03 and go back to 1.02

[Aegis]

Originally posted by Father Time

I think, 1.03 plain sucks ass.

 

And is way to unbalanced.

 

1.02 has some flaws (Visible F.absorb) but is way better balanced in gameplay.

 

I down graded it to 1.02 and I'm just addicted to JK2 again!!!

 

I'm having so much fun in 1.02. While 1.03 was "I'm trying to get better on this but this ain't no fun" for hours.

 

So, screw 1.03 and go back to 1.02

I used to think the same thing, but one day I decided to suck it up, and play, and now I've not only gotten my skill back, but I've found some of the best players online to play with. You should give 1.03 another shot.

 

Just remember, this doesn't mean I endorse all changes made, but it still isn't that bad.

[Cedrin]

I quit playing Jedi Knight becuase I lost my faith in Raven.

 

The game was great the day I bought it, and all my friends thought it was one of the best FPS combat based games there was.

 

The fact that raven is catering to the minority of complainers on the forums made me lost all my trust in them. They butchered a great game and most of my friends have already found better games to play since this has happend.

 

As stated by serveral other experienced players, 1.02 had a high learning curve and you couldnt run into a game and win by swinging widely. I learned that fact the first few days of playing and started learning strategies and moves that made my gameplay very enjoyable. The lowered damage and magical blocking was just stupid. I can put up with the saber combat being more like single player but this.... Your not suppost to block from behind, hell you cant even see your opponet and magical block a swing in the back. Blocking was done by cautious combat in 1.02. You had to face your opponet and prevent from swinging while he makes an attack.

 

All I hear are complainers saying how you cant block and how much more fun 1.03 was. You know what that means? That means you died a lot in 1.02. That means you couldnt make the learning curve. That means you didnt want to play the game.

 

And about this nonsense about games should hamper gameplay for the 56kers. Give me a break. First Person Shooters are designed primarly for broadband users. If you are complaining that your connection is too slow, that buy a RTS game. Get a game that doesnt depend greatly on your connection.

 

As for my personal opinion on the matter of 56k not being available in your area, then why do you live there? One of the top priorities on my list when I bought my house was how fast of an internet connection I could get there for the price.

 

Next time you move someplace, maybe you should check on the broadband availablity first before complaining after the fact.

[Ready Wan]

...it would be nice for Raven to at least acknowledge that a patch is in the works. At least then it would be bearable to wait around for a few months. an expansion pack, while it costs money, is another option....

 

neither has been committed to by Raven.

 

so until they speak up, back to 1.02...at least its FUN!

[FatalStrike]

I think that this Dark Begger guy is 100% right.

 

This dumb patch exists because morons hated losing. Besides the DFA neutering and the blocking with the back of your head, they also made it ridiculously SLOW.

 

1.02 was fast paced and intense. If you made a dumb mistake you paid for it. In 1.03 you can make any mistake short of falling into a pit and still survive. This is better to you people?

 

Anyway Begger you mentioned a clan that still plays 1.02? Let me know the web site?

[GooglyMoogly]

1.02 = more skill..higher learning curve??? wtf?.

 

All I can say is that in 1.02 I had the top score on the server a WHOLE lot more than I do now...and it's not because of the pull/backstab whores. It was because I could go ape-**** on my keyboard and mouse button and come away with a boat load of kills. Now I need to think and react a whole lot more to win a fight.

 

In 1.02 it was easy to get lots of kills without using specials..now the only way to get lots of kills(most of the time) is to whore the specials. This is an improvement in my mind. I don't care that I get 6 or 7 kills to the leaders 25 because those 6 or 7 kills were EARNED not gotten through lame tactics or random luck.

[Cedrin]

You consider whoring the specials an improvement in your mind? What is wrong with you.

 

I have also noticed that a lot of people tend to speak about 1.03 without seeing all aspects that have been ruined by it.

 

Have any of you played any full force dueling or FFA in 1.03? If you have, then you would know how badly it has been raped.

 

You dont so any saber combat in Force dulers. The strategy on force gameplay consists of being light side, keeping absorb up to prevent from being knocked down, and use pull/backsweep to kill your enemies. Everyone does this becuase it is the most effective way now.

 

Go ask the so called 1.03 god, Artfifex. He does that constantly and so does his friends.

[Dark Begger]

ok, then let's look at it this way..if you think you play as much as I do. I attend university, and skip class constantly (because I go out too late at night am playing jk2 too late..and dont' wake up in time), I play..as in PLAY JK2, from 10AM - 4 PM, then I stop watch some tv, then play from 7PM-11PM... and I mean PLAY...I'm only 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, my computer does not shut off. Ok I'm a geek, but I don't have a job, I can play all I want. you just said you have a job. good for you. go do your work then, but I spend *estimating from figures above *10 hours a day PLAYING JK2, if you want to count online time I'm on 24 hours a day..double yours, so eat it.

 

And you can't get DSL or Cable? aww too bad, it's not our fault, don't complain about having 56k and not being able to counter a move SOMETIMES due to it, because frankly, if you can't change it, too friggen bad, live with it. Should I go..ohh..yeah..I'm sorry..you can't get DSL..I guess 1.03 was a good change then..because those 56kers who can't get a DSL or cable connection make up such a huge part of our community that we should cater to them. HA funny.

 

And your friend's cable must be ****ed up, because 99% of the time, you see DFA coming and can get out of the way SOO easily.

 

If you can kick most people's asses, then why did you complain about DFA?

 

Bah, I read back and we are on the same side..I forgot who the hell I was talking to here after reading back becaus I am for 1.02, and it seems you are too..I have no idea what the hell happened. 1.03 is crap, but complaining about backstab will push a 1.04 which is even more crap. So I say try to make Raven go backwards with increasing saber strength to normal attacks and hopefully things will balance out *no more ass fighters*

[Datheus]

I dunno...I haven't been playing for long...nor have I been a part of this heated ...eh... "disscussion". But I'm wondering... Would Raven really make a move where it can't be countered in SOME way? I don't mean a saber block, per se, but more of a "kill-him-before-he-kills-you" To make a patch where someone can totally OWN a fight using a specific combo that can't be stopped in some fashion would seem to imply that Raven wrote this patch at 3 in the morning, running on nothing but caffiene and porno... Maybe, they could be that idiotic to do something where it was THAT un-balanced, but if it was a mistake, wouldn't they have patched it by now? They're MUST be something you can do to stop these specific attacks, whether it's run your butt off, or just blast them away with a rocket, I don't know, I have yet to get on a public server, flame me if you will...

 

It just seems foolish to me that they could throw the game "off balance" without knowing it/fixing it

[Spider AL]

Well Datheus, it could well be that LEC simply doesn't want Raven to produce a new patch, because LEC would have to PAY them for doing it. Personally I believe that Raven were indeed rushing when they put the patch out, and I doubt whether they had any "master plan" when they released it, it was just ill-conceived and generally a bad idea. Oh well, it happened to T2, CS... pleh.

[Orangina_Rouge]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Oh well, it happened to T2,

 

U mean the ML range and Heat Sign ??

It s far from breakin T2 as much as 1.03 broke JK 2 IMO