For all you who tell us to stop complaining..

[Agen]

It was spider al who you were arguing about with the pull.

Also Artifex was has "retired" (lol) because he bored himself with his pull backstab move. So really he can only blame himself.

[FatalStrike]

Originally posted by JediMasterBater

Ah,

 

Ignorance has spoken ladies and gentlemen.

 

 

This from a person who uses 5th grade bathroom humor and names himself after his favorite (only) weekend activity other then computer games. LOL

 

Keep up the good work buddy!! LOL

[Agen]

He actually had a point for once.

[FatalStrike]

Originally posted by Agen_Terminator

It was spider al who you were arguing about with the pull.

Also Artifex was has "retired" (lol) because he bored himself with his pull backstab move. So really he can only blame himself.

 

 

You want him to blame himself?

 

He found a way to be a better fighter than everyone else. Its not his fault that the game allows and even demads that you use strategies like this to win.

 

if you want to blame something then place it right on the v1.03 patch. The speed of the game makes aiming your throws, pulls, and pushes childs play. Backswings are the only thing that will break the magic blocks regularly, regular swings get blocked 60% of the time no matter where you hit. If you think logically you realize that this is the only intelligent method of play if winning is your goal.

[Agen]

Well, sicne you say 60% yourslef, it sounds more like laziness to me.

[Xombie]

Dark Begger, just so you don't get all disappointed and stuff... if Raven ends up not making an official patch, then it's because of what LucasArts decided.

Not only would it be quite hard to support a patch without the backing of the publisher, but it's a bit of a waste of company time to be working on things that aren't bringing in money. As far as I know, this is how almost all dev companies work. It's not a viable business decision to make patches without getting paid for that work by someone. They'd go bankrupt if they did alot of that.

 

And we know that Raven does listen to people (people who act mature towards them) and do try to help the players out. It wouldn't be fair to "blame" them for not doing a patch when it was LucasArts's decision.

 

If you want to complain that the game needs a patch, I'd suggest telling an LucasArts representative. If you want to give input on what you would like fixed and possibly how, then that's what you should tell Raven.

 

But be realistic and don't count on them doing a patch unless LucasArts pays them to. That's just the way it works.

[Solo4114]

I just don't get it. If you don't like 1.03, don't play it. Now, I realize that you're gonna say "Hey! We said that to you about 1.02 and yet you bitched and moaned and Raven catered to you!!!"

 

Guess what. Apples and oranges, buddy.

 

When 1.02 was around that was ALL there was to play. There WERE no other options.

 

But if YOU don't happen to like 1.03, YOU have an option to play the best game you ever played that made life worth living and brought a ray of purest sunshine to your life in the form of 1.02. Honestly people, get a damn grip. If you don't like 1.03, you can STILL play 1.02.

 

And I've got news for you. Raven is NOT going to change things back to 1.02. They may reduce blocking, but if you want 1.02, Raven will not waste its time or money making another patch to make the game the way it is when you install it. In effect you already HAVE your patch. It's called 1.02, and if you want to play it, just uninstall the game and reinstall it and then don't patch. Simple as that.

 

You'll have your old DFA, your zero blocking, etc. There's no POINT in complaining to Raven about how you want 1.02 back BECAUSE YOU ALREADY HAVE IT.

 

Now, what Raven MIGHT do is things like reduce blocking for FFA/CTF modes, except that that's a server side variable now for people to implement if they so choose. They MIGHT up ammo consumption because, at least as far as I can tell, guns aren't really that much of a problem.

 

They MIGHT decide to support Mercs v. Jedi a bit heavier, but then again, they may leave that to the modding community if they ever release a true SDK. (not just graphics, but coding)

 

They most likely WILL get rid of the backstab or at least severely nerf it, as it's been stated already that the backstab was really an oversight from 1.02 that managed to sneak through in the development of 1.03.

 

Now, as for bashing 1.03, yes, you may think it sucks. Personally, I don't like the backstab at all, nor do I like ANY one-hit-one-kill moves.

 

Some of you may bitch and moan that this game doesn't play well to competition anymore. And you know what? You may be right. It may NOT play to YOUR style of competition. A lot of people whine about the fact that "1.02 was the best competetive game I EVER played and 1.03 RUINED IT," but you know what? Maybe the issue is not the GAME as much as it is your STYLE of competition.

 

Perhaps the game is (with the exception of the backstab) exactly what Raven envisioned. IE: they tried to make a game the way they wanted to play with 1.02, and it didn't work out. So they changed the game to how THEY felt they'd enjoy it. Maybe the fan input was only peripheral to them implementing the patch. Who knows. As far as I know, Raven has never said, "Well, the fans whined and complained so much that we just figured we'd change it to what they wanted. After all, we like to do exactly what our fans tell us to do."

 

Maybe competition in this game is MEANT to be slower and more thought out. Maybe it's not SUPPOSED to be the insta-frag-fest that you have in most other FPS games. Maybe Raven figured that it's more FUN to actually have to duke it out toe-to-toe for longer than, say, 5 seconds. Maybe they didn't want just the guy with the biggest gun to win. Maybe they, like a lot of us, really enjoy the dueling aspect of this game, and wanted to make it more duel friendly.

 

Personally, I don't care in the end. The game is what it is. If Raven releases a 1.04 patch and I hate it, well, I'll probably complain, but at least I've got 1.03.

 

You, in the meantime, <B>still have 1.02.</B> If you so hate and despise 1.03, if it RUINED your game, if it veritably abolished joy from your life, then you've got a very simple solution: don't play it; play 1.02 instead. This, as my grandmother used to say, is why there's chocolate and vanilla. Or in this case, 1.02 and 1.03.

 

Now, on the other hand, if you have useful suggestions for 1.04 that DON'T just "make it like 1.02" that's a different story. If you, for example, want to argue for a blocking system where you start at the current level, but lose blocking ability the more you move around (IE: a degrading angle of blocking the more you move), then that's a different story. If you have cogent, useful suggestions for some sort of middle ground, for chrissakes make them!! It would be a welcome change of pace to see someone actually say something useful and back it up with a well thought out and well expressed opinion. But if you think Raven is simply going to undo what is entirely in your own power to undo, and on their own dime as well, you're sorely mistaken.

[Dark Begger]

umm, first of all, changes in 1.03 were in no way Raven's idea....they heard the complaints and changed it. So this has nothing to do with Raven's vision.

 

And next, I play competitively on ladders, so if they switch to 1.03, I switch to 1.03, so reverting back to 1.02, is not really an option for me. And I know they will not bring the game back to 1.02, but they may bring some aspects of 1.02 back into 1.04...like higher damage. I'm not asking for a complete backwards upgrade....more of a mix between the two. The way I see it, Raven saw the complaints, answered them in a patch, but ended up creating new problems and OVER patching the game..there should be a happy medium in between. And what makes you think backstab wasn't in Raven's vision? just because it wasn't in yours doesn't mean it wasn't in theirs. You can't make assumptions for them

 

You said:

"Well, the fans whined and complained so much that we just figured we'd change it to what they wanted. After all, we like to do exactly what our fans tell us to do."

 

but I think EVERYONE hear knows Raven made the changes due to complaints. If Raven thought it up for themselves, they would have waited and released 1.03 as the retail game.

 

Anyways, I can't go back, because I am a competitive player on the ladders..you may be able to go back, but I cannot. So it's not apples and oranges for me.

[FatalStrike]

Originally posted by Agen_Terminator

Well, sicne you say 60% yourslef, it sounds more like laziness to me.

 

You think I'm lazy because I get upset that I dodge a charge, spin, and hit my opponent in the back with a heavy swing only to see it blocked!!!! You think this is lazy. No buddy, this is what I'm talking about in v1.03, when I say that it helps poorly skilled players.

 

I do not want to waste my time out manuvering my opponent and delivering what should be a deadly hit over and over again until the stupid patch actually lets one land on his unprotected back side!!!

 

This does not promote skill, it rewards mistakes by allowing you to get away with many of them and not taking any damage.

 

By the way I don't want the next patch to be just like v1.02. I like the console that appears over your head while typing. I would like the DFA back to the way it was but with reduced strength (one hit kills are gay), and I really like that you can see what is allowed on a server from looking on the list. The speed of play should be returned, throws should do less damage and if blocked your saber should fall and force the player to go get it back. Instead of super blocking how about not allowing player to complete a swing if hit while in the process swinging(i.e. if a heavy user pulls his saber back and you land a light hit he returns to a defensive posture) this will encourage people to use speed as well as strength. Oh and of course NO ONE HIT KILLS.

 

I think these would add to the competition.

[Dark Begger]

ok, the constant references to helping the crap players and screwing over the good players..is getting tiring..Let me shed some light on the subject...

 

What has happened is that the truly skilled (as in the top players) are obviously, at the top of a theoretical 'skill level' meter..and the crap players at the 'bottom' . In 1.02, this 'skill level' meter was very big, as in there was a big gap between the really good nad the really bad, giving lot's of space for the not so good, and the not so bad.

 

In 1.03, this meter was squished together, to produce a similar meter but with only a small marginal border between the good and the not so good..and betwen the bad and the not so bad.

 

Therefore, it seems to good players that the patch catered to the n00bs, since they are now getting more kills, and a little more difficult to beat..even though they are still...crap..? In some respects, this is agood thing, making the game a LOT more competitive...as there will be more people who are closer to the top spot..and the not so good can sometimes pose a challenge to the good....

 

I don't see the bad point about this 'idea' but, how they squished this meter together I dislike. I do not enjoy how they reduced saber damage..there must have been another way...oh well.

[Agen]

Ok, now whatever help thye get you get, it's not just them who get blocking and blocking a heavy hit is unlikely, it knocks it there saber away giving you a chance to get them, you can't jsut hit them blindly and expect to get a hit in.

 

So you really want to stand still and get kills while the oither person attempts to hit you. Spinners are thee asiest kind to kill, i mean you can block all there hit by just looknig at them and not firing and occasionaly walking bakcwards so they don't barge in.

 

Well if a lgiht stance hit hit a person in heavy stance, it would make red sdtance even more nerfed to usefulness, red gambles alot with it's move so, soem are expecting to get health taken off but deal more to them.

 

And the noobs getting more kills is ridiculous, come on, they block mroe often but so do you and that is probably a good thing since noobs usually come spinning like a frisbee.

 

To me, the 1.03 patch has made dueling alot better and a noob is jsut as easy to beat in 1.03 as it was in 1.02 IMO.

[Dark Begger]

I wouldn't say just as easy..lol..I mastered heavy and medium in 1.02, and wow..when a beginner player comes on with his light stance trying to attack me...I just watch how he moves, position myself, then when he comes I swing at the right time with ehavy and bring him down to 25. lol then my next move kills him. THAT was easy.

 

in 1.03, they hack and slash tactic that they use makes yourself a little more up for attack..if you go in and try to attack up front, of course you will be hit..it requires a little more skill to kill a n00b..not a hell of a lot..but a little more. I think atleast.

[Agen]

If you think about it, it's common sense for it to hurt if you don't get out of the way. even from a noob.

[Vagabond]

All of this complaining is why I wished Raven would have delayed the game, beta tested it with a significant team of testers, and got the gameplay mechanics right before they shipped it. Because changing the way the sabering and force powers work after the game has been released creates all the division in the community that we see today. And it's understandable - it's difficult to get good at something if the rules keep changing.

 

Which version I prefer isn't even the point anymore. The real tragedy is that the community has become polarized into so many separate little camps. It's too bad.

[Agen]

Yeh, i thought that too, it's bad to divide the game up into little camps, i used to think it was bad in jk1, divided into 2 - guns and saberers. But now there's about 6 little camps eating each other up.

I still think that lucas made them rush out jk2 in time for AotC without proper beta testing, and what they did beta test was the sp game msot.

The enxt patch should have some serious beta testing, there can be barely any room for msitakes this time round, most people can't cope with the temptation of jsut winnnig with a 1 hit kill.

[SPY_jmr1]

Originally posted by Agen_Terminator

Yeh, i thought that too, it's bad to divide the game up into little camps, i used to think it was bad in jk1, divided into 2 - guns and saberers. But now there's about 6 little camps eating each other up.

I still think that lucas made them rush out jk2 in time for AotC without proper beta testing, and what they did beta test was the sp game msot.

The enxt patch should have some serious beta testing, there can be barely any room for msitakes this time round, most people can't cope with the temptation of jsut winnnig with a 1 hit kill.

 

hell... for all we know theres one in beta test right now as we speak:cool:

 

maybe raven has learned there lesson and are holding thre tounge's lest they get famed to a crisp...

 

just a idea from someone who knows nothing, cept that he's pissed at the morons on the fourms(you know who you are )

 

edit: WOOHOO! 2nd page

[Solo4114]

Beggar,

 

I can agree with you that 1.03 did create some problems and reveal some problems.

 

The problems, as I see it, are that

 

1.) Blocking is a bit too high for some folks.

 

- This can be fixed, however, using the server-side variable to lower blocking. Check the.plans posted on the jediknightii.net forum. If you play competitively, then you might want to suggest to the ladders that they change their rules. Or start a petition amongst the other disgruntled players. Personally, I wouldn't mind if they reduced MOVING blocking and maybe cut down the angle of defense from the current 180 to, say, 90. This would allow for more side and back attacks. And if the sabre goes through a guy at ANY point, don't have it reflect back off of the sabre that the victim is holding. That's just goofy. That may not be patchable, though, so at least make all the usual damage to players happen when hit from behind, instead of an instant block.

 

2.) Dark side was nerfed too much.

 

- This I kind of agree with. Not with lightning, since that's still QUITE powerful, and not so much with drain either (though I wouldn't care so much if drain were left at 1.02 levels -- I just have no real position on that), but grip is not nearly as useful as it was. At least, it doesn't seem to be. I wouldn't mind if grip still immobilized you, but didn't damage you, if you had absorb on. Or rather, if they gripped you and you turned absorb on, it wouldn't break the grip, just stop the pain so to speak. You'd still have to push or throw your way out of the grip.

 

3.) DFA was nerfed.

 

- In some respects, I may agree with this. I've never really used DFA, and certainly have a bitch of a time aiming it now that you can't turn in mid air (which is good), but if it's been nerfed damage wise, I think that it should be left at slightly higher damage levels (not an insta-kill, but seriously damaging). As far as fixing the bugs goes, I'm all for that. It SHOULDN'T damage you if the sabre's in the ground. It SHOULD leave you VERY open to counterattack if you miss, and it SHOULD be hard to aim. It really ought to be a finishing move. IE: if you break a sabre lock and then execute DFA, that's a good way to finish a guy off. I have no problems with that.

 

4.) Guns eat more ammo.

 

- I don't care about this so much, as long as the guns don't do quite the same level of damage that they did in 1.02. Honestly, people really DID spam the repeater and flak cannon, so I don't mind THAT not being as prevalent. Personally, I don't have a problem with ammo as it is. When I've played CTF, I've had no problems killing people, since I just aim or use splash damage weapons. I know folks say that this hurts competition, but I've never been a fan of having to hunt for guns in competition anyway. To my way of thinking, spawning with certain guns at full (or partial) ammo is a better way to do things (IE: Team Fortress, Weapons Factory, etc.), but that's just my own opinion. This, however, could be fixed with an ammo respawn cvar. Or, you can just edit the maps for competetive play and add more ammo in. So, this, I don't think, really necessitates a patch.

 

5.) Absorb is too powerful

 

- I don't think absorb is too powerful, I just think that some of the other force powers could stand maybe a little beefing up. Absorb should absolutely be invisible. If you have the blue glow, it negates the use fo the power because no one will use force powers on you until it runs out. Having it be only visible when you attack with force powers at least leaves the issue up to question as to whether or not a guy has absorb on. That's how it should be.

 

6.) Sabre damage was nerfed.

 

- Yeah, sabre damage was nerfed, and maybe it could stand a little beefing up (especially with the current blocking system), but honestly, I still have no problems scoring hits on people and killing them. If sabre damage is beefed up, I'd say do NOT bring it back to 1.02 levels, unless you leave blocking as it is right now.

 

7.) The backstab

 

- This patch didn't create the backstab. It simply revealed it when players who demand instant easy kills went searching for a new DFA-style move. There should, put simply, be NO instant kills in this game, unless ALL hits are instant kills and you're really just using these special moves to vary your angle of attack (and add some style to your fighting). Instant kills ruin this game, I think. I'm sure some of you disagree, though. As proof of my position, I offer the following:

 

Witness ArtifeX's departure from the scene. Why did this happen? Because the game got boring when you use the same move over and over again. And I'll admit, if your goal is get the most frags possible in the fastest time, the pull/backstab combo is the way to go. I don't think that's much fun, but if your idea of fun is get to the top of the list fastest and stay there, then that's the easiest way to do it. So, ArtifeX, from what I understand, used this move A LOT. And he got bored with the game. And I'm not surprised in the least. Hell, a one-move game IS boring. Essentially, it reduces the game to a 3D version of Mike Tyson's Punchout. Wait, scratch that. Punchout had more than one move. Whatever, you get the point. What I'm saying is that if there ARE one hit kills, people will be tempted to use them. Especially if they're easy to use and have no downside to their use. I'm already wondering about the combination of kick/medium finisher, and whether that might be the new DFA move if they remove backstabs. Or the light-stance lunge, which is less of a problem, if you stay mobile (as is the medium finisher, really), but still somewhat of a problem. Any move that dishes out massive amounts of damage should have a corresponding downside to its use, IE: the DFA in its current incarnation. That move is a bitch to kill someone with, and rightly so.

 

The only option I see to fix this is to make the lightsaber TOTALLY lethal. As in the ultimate stick o' death. You touch it, you die, basically. Make every hit an instant kill. Or at least, every hit past, say, slicing off a guy's hand an instant kill. Even if this was the case, you'd still need to make the backstab blockable at least a little bit. IE: if you attack a guy from behind and he times the backstab, you die. But if you're just standing there and he backstabs, you block. Something like that.

 

Anyway, these are my thoughts for what should be addressed in the next patch. I especially want to see the backstab toned down and have some disadvantages added to it.