JekRendar Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 I copied this thread from the Off. Site's Dev forums (becuase their Gen. Forums have be come corrupt!) This is posted be Lychen and talks about Factioned Cities and I would like your opinions and which one would you choose and why? A neutral city is located in the safe lands. The city has a thriving industry for the creation of medical supplies, and is also renowned for its fine seafood The city has a 2% sales tax to provide income for the city officials and the maintainance of public buildings. The Empire builds several bases within the zone and defeats the Rebel forces there. It controls 60% of the zone contention points, and the territory officially becomes Imperial. A mandatory 5% sales tax is placed on all transactions that occur in the city. Certain items, including some questionable components of medical supplies are considered contraband. The spawn rate of NPC Imperials increases making it difficult for Rebel sympathizers to move within the territory. The Mayor of the neutral town has several options: 1. Remain Neutral, reject the 5% trade tax and take the risk of smuggling contraband medical components into the city. The Empire can't go around destroying all civilians so accepts this decision, though it still has control outside the city limits. 2. Change to Imperial. The city accepts the 5% tax increase and allows NPC troopers to patrol the city. Rebel sympathizers are thereby forced out of the city. For the taxes the city gains a few new trade halls, a shiny new spaceport, and a few military defense structures. 3. Change to Rebel or Hutt: The city defies the Empire and becomes a local hot spot of resistance. The city accepts any faction laws, such as a 3% Alliance tax. Rebel or Hutt factioned guards spawn in the city and it becomes a risky place for Imperials to travel. The city limits become a dangerous border for Factioned members, and non-factioners may elect to move away to avoid the constant turmoil. This is how I see the GCW affecting the average citizen. Lychen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JekRendar Posted June 12, 2002 Author Share Posted June 12, 2002 Bump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonk-raider Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 so theres some strategy involved..good to all imperial forces reading this.. Contact me in pm we can keep in contract from there.. once the games come out and the servers are desidedwe can pick one place and fester hte imperial cause then spread like a virus.. a virus of peace and justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Past Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 Originally posted by gonk-raider so theres some strategy involved..good to all imperial forces reading this.. Contact me in pm we can keep in contract from there.. once the games come out and the servers are desidedwe can pick one place and fester hte imperial cause then spread like a virus.. a virus of peace and justice :lol: You're so funny gonk! That is the opposite of what Imperials do! The Empire causes more pain, turmoil, and suffering than peace and ACTUAL justice. We would be better off being ruled by a wamp rat than by the Empire! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 Yes, cause the New Republic is sooo much better then the last Republic, right? Last time I checked it was full of the same s h i t as the Old Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Past Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 The Old Repuplic did a better job than the Empire! Alot better! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 Yeah, that's why they tried to create an investigation on the Naboo insident, even when they knew what was going on. That's just great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DudEhead Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 anarchy is the only democratic institution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyalGuard Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 The Old Repuplic did a better job than the Empire If the Old Republic had worked, Palpatine would never have gathered enough support, even with his devious machinations and Sith powers (should note here that this post is OOC!) to become supreme chancellor. Also, if the Empire had been still standing when the Yuuzhan-Vong arrived then the Galaxy would be in much better shape (The Emperor could have acted immediately and the Empire maintained a much larger standing fleet than the New Republic did. Plus Thrawn would have still been alive!). Facism and imperialism have thier attractions, otherwise we wouldn't be plagued with Extreme Right parties across most of western and southern Europe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 That's what I like about Galaxies...it looks like both sides will be there in their reality-based incarnations, not following either biased paradigm. What was wrong with the Empire? Its brutality. Just look at what happened to Luke's innocent aunt and uncle in ANH---fried to a crisp, no questions asked, just because they'd unknowingly bought a droid at the wrong time. And then you have Alderaan. An entire planet blown to dust because their Princess was on the side of an opposing political faction. But on the flip side, the Empire really did bring peace to the galaxy! Peace and order. Many people were quite happy with the Empire, and for good reason. It's all in your point of view... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Past Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Originally posted by Redwing That's what I like about Galaxies...it looks like both sides will be there in their reality-based incarnations, not following either biased paradigm. What was wrong with the Empire? Its brutality. Just look at what happened to Luke's innocent aunt and uncle in ANH---fried to a crisp, no questions asked, just because they'd unknowingly bought a droid at the wrong time. And then you have Alderaan. An entire planet blown to dust because their Princess was on the side of an opposing political faction. But on the flip side, the Empire really did bring peace to the galaxy! Peace and order. Many people were quite happy with the Empire, and for good reason. It's all in your point of view... You call killing the innocent peace and order! NOT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith 8 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 well acording to the corellian trilogy... thnks to the empire ... all the species on Corellia.. lived in peace... or else they would be killing eachother. i believe the policy was: Like your neighbour or we will shoot you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Past Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Uh, I think I'll pass on that policy...Anywho...If I was in charge I would make sure things are done as fast as possible, and w/o killing the innocent, wrecking things, ect. I will try to get the Alliance to be like that and we will help the innocent and stop bullies and stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyalGuard Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Uh, I think I'll pass on that policy...Anywho...If I was in charge I would make sure things are done as fast as possible, and w/o killing the innocent, wrecking things, ect. I will try to get the Alliance to be like that and we will help the innocent and stop bullies and stuff like that. You'd be surprised how difficult that is to do, if you want to consider everyone's opinion on the issue, you have to ask everyone their opinion (which takes a long time). If you don't want everyone's opinion, then who are you to decide what's right and who's innocent? Democracy is half-way house that pleases some, satisfies nobody but at least prevents the extremists getting in power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 I think it's time to post this thing: The Case for the Empire Everything you think you know about Star Wars is wrong. by Jonathan V. Last 05/16/2002 12:00:00 AM STAR WARS RETURNS today with its fifth installment, "Attack of the Clones." There will be talk of the Force and the Dark Side and the epic morality of George Lucas's series. But the truth is that from the beginning, Lucas confused the good guys with the bad. The deep lesson of Star Wars is that the Empire is good. It's a difficult leap to make--embracing Darth Vader and the Emperor over the plucky and attractive Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia--but a careful examination of the facts, sorted apart from Lucas's off-the-shelf moral cues, makes a quite convincing case. First, an aside: For the sake of this discussion, I've considered only the history gleaned from the actual Star Wars films, not the Expanded Universe. If you know what the Expanded Universe is and want to argue that no discussion of Star Wars can be complete without considering material outside the canon, that's fine. However, it's always been my view that the comic books and novels largely serve to clean up Lucas's narrative and philosophical messes. Therefore, discussions of intrinsic intent must necessarily revolve around the movies alone. You may disagree, but please don't e-mail me about it. If you don't know what the Expanded Universe is, well, uh, neither do I. I. The Problems with the Galactic Republic At the beginning of the Star Wars saga, the known universe is governed by the Galactic Republic. The Republic is controlled by a Senate, which is, in turn, run by an elected chancellor who's in charge of procedure, but has little real power. Scores of thousands of planets are represented in the Galactic Senate, and as we first encounter it, it is sclerotic and ineffectual. The Republic has grown over many millennia to the point where there are so many factions and disparate interests, that it is simply too big to be governable. Even the Republic's staunchest supporters recognize this failing: In "The Phantom Menace," Queen Amidala admits, "It is clear to me now that the Republic no longer functions." In "Attack of the Clones," young Anakin Skywalker observes that it simply "doesn't work." The Senate moves so slowly that it is powerless to stop aggression between member states. In "The Phantom Menace" a supra-planetary alliance, the Trade Federation (think of it as OPEC to the Galactic Republic's United Nations), invades a planet and all the Senate can agree to do is call for an investigation. Like the United Nations, the Republic has no armed forces of its own, but instead relies on a group of warriors, the Jedi knights, to "keep the peace." The Jedi, while autonomous, often work in tandem with the Senate, trying to smooth over quarrels and avoid conflicts. But the Jedi number only in the thousands--they cannot protect everyone. What's more, it's not clear that they should be "protecting" anyone. The Jedi are Lucas's great heroes, full of Zen wisdom and righteous power. They encourage people to "use the Force"--the mystical energy which is the source of their power--but the truth, revealed in "The Phantom Menace," is that the Force isn't available to the rabble. The Force comes from midi-chlorians, tiny symbiotic organisms in people's blood, like mitochondria. The Force, it turns out, is an inherited, genetic trait. If you don't have the blood, you don't get the Force. Which makes the Jedi not a democratic militia, but a royalist Swiss guard. And an arrogant royalist Swiss guard, at that. With one or two notable exceptions, the Jedi we meet in Star Wars are full of themselves. They ignore the counsel of others (often with terrible consequences), and seem honestly to believe that they are at the center of the universe. When the chief Jedi record-keeper is asked in "Attack of the Clones" about a planet she has never heard of, she replies that if it's not in the Jedi archives, it doesn't exist. (The planet in question does exist, again, with terrible consequences.) In "Attack of the Clones," a mysterious figure, Count Dooku, leads a separatist movement of planets that want to secede from the Republic. Dooku promises these confederates smaller government, unlimited free trade, and an "absolute commitment to capitalism." Dooku's motives are suspect--it's not clear whether or not he believes in these causes. However, there's no reason to doubt the motives of the other separatists--they seem genuinely to want to make a fresh start with a government that isn't bloated and dysfunctional. The Republic, of course, is eager to quash these separatists, but they never make a compelling case--or any case, for that matter--as to why, if they are such a freedom-loving regime, these planets should not be allowed to check out of the Republic and take control of their own destinies. II. The Empire We do not yet know the exact how's and why's, but we do know this: At some point between the end of Episode II and the beginning of Episode IV, the Republic is replaced by an Empire. The first hint comes in "Attack of the Clones," when the Senate's Chancellor Palpatine is granted emergency powers to deal with the separatists. It spoils very little to tell you that Palpatine eventually becomes the Emperor. For a time, he keeps the Senate in place, functioning as a rubber-stamp, much like the Roman imperial senate, but a few minutes into Episode IV, we are informed that the he has dissolved the Senate, and that "the last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away." Lucas wants the Empire to stand for evil, so he tells us that the Emperor and Darth Vader have gone over to the Dark Side and dresses them in black. But look closer. When Palpatine is still a senator, he says, "The Republic is not what it once was. The Senate is full of greedy, squabbling delegates. There is no interest in the common good." At one point he laments that "the bureaucrats are in charge now." Palpatine believes that the political order must be manipulated to produce peace and stability. When he mutters, "There is no civility, there is only politics," we see that at heart, he's an esoteric Straussian. Make no mistake, as emperor, Palpatine is a dictator--but a relatively benign one, like Pinochet. It's a dictatorship people can do business with. They collect taxes and patrol the skies. They try to stop organized crime (in the form of the smuggling rings run by the Hutts). The Empire has virtually no effect on the daily life of the average, law-abiding citizen. Also, unlike the divine-right Jedi, the Empire is a meritocracy. The Empire runs academies throughout the galaxy (Han Solo begins his career at an Imperial academy), and those who show promise are promoted, often rapidly. In "The Empire Strikes Back" Captain Piett is quickly promoted to admiral when his predecessor "falls down on the job." And while it's a small point, the Empire's manners and decorum speak well of it. When Darth Vader is forced to employ bounty hunters to track down Han Solo, he refuses to address them by name. Even Boba Fett, the greatest of all trackers, is referred to icily as "bounty hunter." And yet Fett understands the protocol. When he captures Solo, he calls him "Captain Solo." (Whether this is in deference to Han's former rank in the Imperial starfleet, or simply because Han owns and pilots his own ship, we don't know. I suspect it's the former.) But the most compelling evidence that the Empire isn't evil comes in "The Empire Strikes Back" when Darth Vader is battling Luke Skywalker. After an exhausting fight, Vader is poised to finish Luke off, but he stays his hand. He tries to convert Luke to the Dark Side with this simple plea: "There is no escape. Don't make me destroy you. . . . Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy." It is here we find the real controlling impulse for the Dark Side and the Empire. The Empire doesn't want slaves or destruction or "evil." It wants order. None of which is to say that the Empire isn't sometimes brutal. In Episode IV, Imperial stormtroopers kill Luke's aunt and uncle and Grand Moff Tarkin orders the destruction of an entire planet, Alderaan. But viewed in context, these acts are less brutal than they initially appear. Poor Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen reach a grisly end, but only after they aid the rebellion by hiding Luke and harboring two fugitive droids. They aren't given due process, but they are traitors. The destruction of Alderaan is often cited as ipso facto proof of the Empire's "evilness" because it seems like mass murder--planeticide, even. As Tarkin prepares to fire the Death Star, Princess Leia implores him to spare the planet, saying, "Alderaan is peaceful. We have no weapons." Her plea is important, if true. But the audience has no reason to believe that Leia is telling the truth. In Episode IV, every bit of information she gives the Empire is willfully untrue. In the opening, she tells Darth Vader that she is on a diplomatic mission of mercy, when in fact she is on a spy mission, trying to deliver schematics of the Death Star to the Rebel Alliance. When asked where the Alliance is headquartered, she lies again. Leia's lies are perfectly defensible--she thinks she's serving the greater good--but they make her wholly unreliable on the question of whether or not Alderaan really is peaceful and defenseless. If anything, since Leia is a high-ranking member of the rebellion and the princess of Alderaan, it would be reasonable to suspect that Alderaan is a front for Rebel activity or at least home to many more spies and insurgents like Leia. Whatever the case, the important thing to recognize is that the Empire is not committing random acts of terror. It is engaged in a fight for the survival of its regime against a violent group of rebels who are committed to its destruction. III. After the Rebellion As we all know from the final Star Wars installment, "Return of the Jedi," the rebellion is eventually successful. The Emperor is assassinated, Darth Vader abdicates his post and dies, the central governing apparatus of the Empire is destroyed in a spectacular space battle, and the rebels rejoice with their small, annoying Ewok friends. But what happens next? (There is a raft of literature on this point, but, as I said at the beginning, I'm going to ignore it because it doesn't speak to Lucas's original intent.) In Episode IV, after Grand Moff Tarkin announces that the Imperial Senate has been abolished, he's asked how the Emperor can possibly hope to keep control of the galaxy. "The regional governors now have direct control over territories," he says. "Fear will keep the local systems in line." So under Imperial rule, a large group of regional potentates, each with access to a sizable army and star destroyers, runs local affairs. These governors owe their fealty to the Emperor. And once the Emperor is dead, the galaxy will be plunged into chaos. In all of the time we spend observing the Rebel Alliance, we never hear of their governing strategy or their plans for a post-Imperial universe. All we see are plots and fighting. Their victory over the Empire doesn't liberate the galaxy--it turns the galaxy into Somalia writ large: dominated by local warlords who are answerable to no one. Which makes the rebels--Lucas's heroes--an unimpressive crew of anarchic royals who wreck the galaxy so that Princess Leia can have her tiara back. I'll take the Empire. Jonathan V. Last is online editor of The Weekly Standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyalGuard Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 Woohoo, I am not alone, others see the rebellion for what it really is! Kudos to Jaan for finding an posting this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 I'll leave it to other people to tear that article apart. I've read it before...it has the same skewed view on things as die-hard Rebel Alliance fans do (except from the opposite side). Like the Rebel argument, it does have valid points, but... Examples of things they are wrong on: Alderaan...I don't even have to tear that argument apart. It should be obvious. The Force being a genetic trait. (Did they miss the part in AotC on how hard it was for Jedi to marry?) And most of all: "There is a raft of literature on this point, but, as I said at the beginning, I'm going to ignore it because it doesn't speak to Lucas's original intent." -Including the opening crawls!?! Apparently this guy can't read. I'm not saying the article was bad, I'm just pointing out that the guy made moronic errors purposefully to make his point more clear cut than it is. In real life, and in Star Wars, things can't always be clear cut. And that's the way it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DudEhead Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 But i think if u use the EU that u come to the opposite conclusion, alderaan is peaceful and the remnant forces reunite a bit and such (when palpatine comes back) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Past Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 *shakes his head*I can't even begin to tell what is so terribly wrong with this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaalgoth Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 Well you see guys, everyone is so worried about who is in the right....I agree with DudEhead......Anarchy is the best in games like this. Neither side is going to end up dominating, and it'll just be a waste to try and get the rebels or the imps to lead the galaxy int eh game. It won't happen, despite most peoples' joining of one of those two sides. That's why if I faction it'll probably beto the Hutts, just cause there will be so many rebels and imps taht I can kill and claim it was a "factional dispute" =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zendjir Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 Yeah, I think the Dev's won't allow 1 side to win, a bit sad actually. It takes away the whole idea of the GCW a bit. It would be cool to see entire planets taken over by troops and battleships making blocades around the planet. And that battles do indeed have a big impact on the gaming world. But they probably won't allow this . The universe stays basically the same the whole time, but one can hope, can't one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DudEhead Posted June 14, 2002 Share Posted June 14, 2002 If anyone here plays daoc, i think it will be simular to that only instead of keeps u have planets for each side to take over and guard ... maybe they won't be totally guarded but i could imagine every single city on a planet controller by one side at a later stage of the game... remember this game is designed to go around for more than five years, alot can happen in that timespan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zendjir Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 Well, I don't think the devs will allow mayor changes in the game balance between the 3 factions. They want to please all kinds of players, and a totally imperial controlled game (for example) just doesnt suit those needs. It's as simple as that. Oh, BTW I got some beer down my stumach, don't flame me for incohesiveness (sp?) of this post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyalGuard Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 I wouldn't hammer the article too much, ignoring the EU it makes some compelling points, and isn't as flawed as some have pointed out: The Force being a genetic trait. (Did they miss the part in AotC on how hard it was for Jedi to marry?) The point here wasn't that it was inhereited in family bloodlines, but that at birth, a person's worth was decided by midi-chlorian count, and that there was nothing someone with a low count could do to become a Jedi - hence the Jedi are an elitist society. Also, going purely on the film, there is no concrete evidence that Alderaan is a peaceful world. Of course the EU blows the article out of the water quite happily, by providing insights into character motivation and back-story to the planets and so forth, but as some SW fans still refuse to accept what is published in the books the article could be said to be true - from a certain point of view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JekRendar Posted June 16, 2002 Author Share Posted June 16, 2002 Originally posted by Andrew Past *shakes his head*I can't even begin to tell what is so terribly wrong with this post. You can say that again! I started this thread talking about housing, GCW, etc. AND IT TURNED INTO A OLD REPUBLIC VERSUS EMPIRE DEBATE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.