slimking Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 Ok Ok jediknights are supposed to be the good guys, well look back at the fights, Ep 1, It took two Jedi to take on maul! (unfair) they both lost as well, it took a fluke from Obi to win, he was beaten! Ep 2 it needed two to take on dooku, and they both lost, I wanna see a good fight between a dark jedi and a good jedi and the good guy wins not two on one – a proper fight like vader and luke! or mace and jango that was good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle d'Tana Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Ok, they lose, but what was in epI with darth maul, in epVI with Vader and palpatine????? What was with Kueller and joruus C'Baoth????? ok think about this, and then post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 hmm, yes. WE saw luke win his saber duel vs. vader, and Obi-Wan DID beat Darth Maul. It was no fluke. And Dooku used to be a very powerful jedi, nearly as good as Mace Windu, so obiwan and anakin could not have beaten him by themselves.....now had anakin listened to obi-wan they probably could have taken him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimking Posted June 27, 2002 Author Share Posted June 27, 2002 i just wanna see a fair one on one duel - no ganging up! dooku v Mace that would be good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimking Posted June 27, 2002 Author Share Posted June 27, 2002 Originally posted by Kyle d'Tana Ok, they lose, but what was in epI with darth maul, in epVI with Vader and palpatine????? What was with Kueller and joruus C'Baoth????? ok think about this, and then post! what are you goning on about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentSmith Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Don't forget that during the era in Episode II the Jedi hadn't faced a lightsaber wielding opponent or true Sith for almost a millenium (except for Obi-Wan Kenobi in TPM). The Jedi in those days trained for lightsaber combat mostly in Forms specialized in blocking blaster fire. Since they didn't expect a Sith as an opponent but rather a soldier, bounty hunter, assorted scum with a blaster. Dooku knew this and besides the fact he was a very powerful Sith he specifically designed his lightsaber (hence the curved shape) to be most effective in Form 2 lightsaber combat. Form 2 lightsaber combat is the Form specializing and designed for lightsaber vs lightsaber battles/fights. (A Form in which the Jedi rarely trained it during the Ep II era.) Obi-Wan kenobi was a Form 3 practioner, so he wasn't focusing his training or skills in battling an opponent with a lightsaber. Anakin I think practiced Form 4 which is focusing on power, strong moves and attacks, but not speed or finesse. Dooku on the other hand was with Form 2, hence his superiority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Let's see... in SW4, Obi-Wan died to Vader. In SW5, Luke got his hand chopped off by Vader. In SW6, Luke only was able to beat Vader by giving into the Dark Side... Luke was subsequently fried by Palpatine. The lesson here? The Sith own Jedi, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 your wrong the jedi won the ancient war not the sith so the jedi are da best According to the EU... the ancient Sith were destroyed when a fleet of the Republic descended on Korriban and sterilized the whole planet. The Sith were revived by Exar Kun, who was betrayed by his own apprentice--the apprentice brought the entire Republic fleet down on Yavin IV and annhilated it, but not before Exar Kun comitted suicide so that he could bind his soul to the Massassi Temple. The Sith Brotherhood was a Dark Side cult modeled on ancient Sith practices. The Sith Brotherhood used the Force to wipe out both themselves and the Jedi Army of Light, leaving only Darth Bane alive. It took two planetary bombardments and an act of mass suicide to reduce the Sith to what we see in the Prequels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandrus Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Fear leads to suffering, suffering leads to hate and hate leads to the dark side...(and apparently to very much power ) The dark side Sith are, consumed and empowered by their hate. Noble Jedi are, in hate they do not act, always preserving peace and justice. Easier to destroy everything is, but very hard to create, that is why you think Sith more power has, young Padawan. Much to learn about the force you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 and much you have to learn as well. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate....hate...leads to suffering. It is true we have not seen many Jedi Victories...but lets look at Yoda, he won his duel. He made Dookie run away like a little girl. The reason we see the Siths win is because the dark side is easier to get very strong with, but you pay the price as it destroys your body. A Jedi who is very powerful is still better than a sith. Mace, yoda, or Plo Koon would've smoked Darth Maul, and i believe Yoda would have worked the Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandrus Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Whatever, there was anger somewhere in there but I didn't remember where The Sith are powerfull because they are only two, and the dark side of the force is stronger in them, but a true Jedi is equaly powerfull. When Oby One and Anakin were defeated by Dooku, they were not yet true Jedi. Same goes for Kwai Gon Jin, he was a rebel Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Obiwan and Anakin (and Quigon) are true Jedi. But none of them are Jedi MASTERS. Dooku is, which gives him a significant advantage over the Knight and the Padawan. As for the Dark Side being more powerful... Luke: Is the Dark Side more powerful? Yoda: No...no...no. Quicker, easier, more seductive. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Qui-Gon had the rank of Jedi Master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leXX Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 You put any Sith up against Yoda and we will see if the Jedi are as crap as you claim. Remember, when Yoda fought Dooku, he chose not to use the force against him, he just blocked everything. Imagine if he had used force against him. He would not have been alive to escape. When the Jedi have to use pairs to fight the sith, it is because they are not "experienced jedi" and are in essence still learning. When Darth Vader eventually kills the Emporer at the end of ROTJ, he is essentially a Jedi as he has turned back to the good side. Ok Ok jediknights are supposed to be the good guys, well look back at the fights, Ep 1, It took two Jedi to take on maul! (unfair) they both lost as well, it took a fluke from Obi to win, he was beaten! Ep 2 it needed two to take on dooku, and they both lost, I wanna see a good fight between a dark jedi and a good jedi and the good guy wins not two on one – a proper fight like vader and luke! or mace and jango that was good Obi Wan beating Maul was not a fluke, it was skill. Yes two took on Dooku and both lost but when Yoda took over, he did not loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Originally posted by Rogue Nine Qui-Gon had the rank of Jedi Master. Actually I thought Qui-gon was a Jedi Master, but I've heard others saying he was simply a Jedi Knight (his title of Master coming from his being Obiwan's instructor, not because his official rank is Master). *shrugs* In regards to the other discussion. Yes, two Jedi took Dooku on, individually, and lost. They did not take him on collectively (which is how people are making it sound), though that was supposed to be the plan. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Exactly! Had Anakin listened to Obi-Wan and moved in slowly.....they would have beaten Dooku methinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaster21801 Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 "A venerable if maverick Jedi Master, Qui-Gon Jinn is a student of the living Force." That's the quote from the Star Wars databank. So I assume Qui-Gon was a master after all... I do know, however, that Obi-Wan was merely a Knight. He was only called master because he taught Anakin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Originally posted by Jaster21801 "A venerable if maverick Jedi Master, Qui-Gon Jinn is a student of the living Force." That's the quote from the Star Wars databank. So I assume Qui-Gon was a master after all... I do know, however, that Obi-Wan was merely a Knight. He was only called master because he taught Anakin. Ah, good to know I was right the very first time when I said he was a Jedi Master (different thread) Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellFyre69 Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 qui jon isnt a jedi master. he's just a jedi knight.. Yes Sith Owns.. we all know that... But that duel with yoda and Dokku, Yoda OWNED HIM.. and that was 1on1.. so there u have a 1on1 fair honorable duel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RectalFury Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 How can you say he owned him? Dooku did run, but he wasn't even injured when he did. He ran because if he didn't like 20 clones would have gunned him down while he was busy fighting yoda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by HellFyre69 qui jon isnt a jedi master. he's just a jedi knight.. Yes Sith Owns.. we all know that... But that duel with yoda and Dokku, Yoda OWNED HIM.. and that was 1on1.. so there u have a 1on1 fair honorable duel According to the databanks at starwars.com, as Jaster pointed out earlier, Qui-gon was a Jedi Master, not a Jedi Knight. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandrus Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 For a Jedi Master, Qui Gon was not very masterfull, although he did a very good job training Oby. But when it comes to saber fights, he was beaten by a guy with a double bladed saber and it doesn't say much about his skills, afterall, double sabers are supposed to give an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentSmith Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 When you watch Episode I and view Qui-Gon Jin's lightsaber style and Obi-Wan's lightsaber style it's clear that Qui-Gon Jin is an experienced lightsaber fighter with effective, pure stances and attacks as well as parry/blocks. What's really great to see is that Obi-Wan's lightsaber skills have so clearly improved from Episode I to Episode II. No longer all those nervous twirls but a purer and faster style too. And a double bladed lightsaber gives you some advantages but also some serious setbacks. You need to have a lot of space and constantly keep on moving to keep the upper-hand. (Which is why Darth Maul kept on moving, he wasn't running, simply keeping momentum and tactically seperating the two Jedi constantly.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by Alexandrus For a Jedi Master, Qui Gon was not very masterfull, although he did a very good job training Oby. But when it comes to saber fights, he was beaten by a guy with a double bladed saber and it doesn't say much about his skills, afterall, double sabers are supposed to give an advantage. Uhhh, I'm confused. You say that double sabers give an advantage and so because Qui-gon lost to someone who had an advantage that obviously he didn't have very good saber skills? *shrug* Qui-gon was very good with a saber, though perhaps not as good as Darth Maul who seemed for focus all his Force ability into combat training, but who says that being granted the status of Jedi Master is based entirely on how good someone is with a saber anyway? Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandrus Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 I am just saying that Quai Gon was a good saber fighter, but he lost only because he never fought against a double saber before. If you watch the fight, you'll see that he was stabbed with the other end of the saber. That fight was not very representative for his skills, because I like the way he fights, clean and determined, very nice style. Ep. I Oby One was indeed very lacking in saber skills, but in Ep. II he trully earns the rank of Jedi Master. He's not as good as Yoda, but hey, he didn't have 800 years of practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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