BasiliskJC Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Originally posted by Admiral You are not forced to say the pledge. Further more it is part of our history, hell the constitution gives reference to God, does that make it unconstitutional. Well said Admiral. Any one who doesn't like the pladge isn't a TRUE American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasiliskJC Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Originally posted by Taarkin Zuh? This makes zero sense. It's like saying if it's unconstitutional to enslave people, then it is unconstitutional to set them free. Actually, you're wrong. What it would be refering to is that we have the right of free speech. And about Atheism being a religion that wouldn't be wholely wrong. Because word over time chang in time. So why should religion be any different? It could be that religion no loger requires a deity it's just a way to explain how things came to be. So Atheism isn't still a religion it's darwinism and evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taarkin Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Originally posted by BasiliskJC Actually, you're wrong. What it would be refering to is that we have the right of free speech. His statement makes no sense. If it's unconstitutional to do something, that it isn't unconstitutional to undo it. And about Atheism being a religion that wouldn't be wholely wrong. Because word over time chang in time. So why should religion be any different? It could be that religion no loger requires a deity it's just a way to explain how things came to be. So Atheism isn't still a religion it's darwinism and evolution. [/b] There's usualy a bit more to religion than "explaining how things came to be". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Then how are they rolling a new MBT off the factory line every five years? T80, T90, Chiorny Oriol (Black Eagle)(T94?)? Thats not very fast......1 every 5 years............. Well seeing as how you lack substantial evidence that they are shrinking, i'll ignore that message. I got that out of an article that was quoting the Russian Parlament...I'll see if I can find that link again. CNN Headline News, EVERY DAY. So was Afghanistan when the Soviets invaded. So was China in WWII. Your point? yeah, we didn't invade China in WW2 did we.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 In 1982, General Dynamics Land Systems (GDLS) bought Chrysler Defense Corporation and began producing the M1 at a rate of 30 tanks a month. Now that's fast. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/lima.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander 598 Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 I meant new tank MODEL. yeah, we didn't invade China in WW2 did we.......... No we didn't. But Japan did, and China was our Ally, however not allied like Britain and France but an ally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 you dont think we made M1 A2's that fast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 how deos one of our allkies being attacked reflect us being invaded? I don;t really follow your train of thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander 598 Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 When I meant new tank MODEL I meant like T80, T90, T94. It doesn't reflect us being invaded. Japan invaded China, China asked for our help, then Japan made craters in Hawaii, we went into WWII with China asa an allie. Now look at China today, we aren't exactly on friendly terms. Even though everything in America is made in China or some other country.(Including the US Flag in my yard.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 Originally posted by Commander 598 When I meant new tank MODEL I meant like T80, T90, T94. It doesn't reflect us being invaded. Japan invaded China, China asked for our help, then Japan made craters in Hawaii, we went into WWII with China asa an allie. Now look at China today, we aren't exactly on friendly terms. Even though everything in America is made in China or some other country.(Including the US Flag in my yard.) Why would we need to do that tho? We have better tanks, so they try and keep up...... ok I understand that, but still kicked their ass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander 598 Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 Underestimation is exactly why the Germans never made it any farther than the River Volga and Stanlingrad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargon Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 Originally posted by Commander 598 Underestimation is exactly why the Germans never made it any farther than the River Volga and Stanlingrad. that, a cold ass winter, and retarded ass Fuhrer that didn't know what he was doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander 598 Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 Hey we agree. However we probably would get into a fight looking at it tactically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jem Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 Originally posted by Cmdr. Cracken SECOND, mr. Religion, I, am ATHIEST. God has had no meaning or value in my life for several years. ohh, you're gonna damn me to hell, ohhhhhh.... wait, i'm ATHIEST, don't give a crap I hereby damn you to hell !!! Wait, that won't work because I'm an ATHEIST too... I frankly can't understand how people can believe in all this religion stuff but hey, It's their life and I respect what ever they want to do with it, I'm not selfish, everyone's free to believe in what they want. It is my opinion that religion was created to answer unanswered questions during the times were science was the devil and that the earth was the center of the solar system (actually, it started even more way back in time...). In otherwords when man sucked in expaining stuff. It was the easy way out: "why is the sky blue?" "kuz it's god's will", "why do I exist?" "that's god's work again" etc, etc and more gibberish. That is what I think, I'm not insulting anyone or anything, just giving my opinion... I believe in Evolution and not in Adam and Eve. (I know I said I wouldn't post until the 11th of August but the forum kept sending me mail everytime someone answered one of my suscribed threads, 12 new mail in my inbox, the problem is now fixed and I am off.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 Originally posted by Jem It is my opinion that religion was created to answer unanswered questions during the times were science was the devil and that the earth was the center of the solar system (actually, it started even more way back in time...). In otherwords when man sucked in expaining stuff. It was the easy way out: "why is the sky blue?" "kuz it's god's will", "why do I exist?" "that's god's work again" etc, etc and more gibberish. It's HARDLY the easy way out. Theology is just as complex and difficult, if not more so, as any of the sciences. I think you have been getting all your examples from TV preachers and high school clubs. I believe in Evolution and not in Adam and Eve. There isn't anything inherently incompatible about them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jem Posted July 13, 2002 Share Posted July 13, 2002 Ack! the forum is still sending me SPAM email!! I've checked my options and everything seems to be in order... where the hell do I have to tick to make it stop? It's a nightmare, the more you guys post, the more email I get...stop posting!!! Other than that I am very well aware that Theology is complicated stuff but for me it is complexity based on something purely inexistant and so it is of no importance and a waste of time... I don't see how Evolution and Adam and Eve can be compatible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted July 13, 2002 Share Posted July 13, 2002 Originally posted by Jem Ack! the forum is still sending me SPAM email!! I've checked my options and everything seems to be in order... where the hell do I have to tick to make it stop? It's a nightmare, the more you guys post, the more email I get...stop posting!!! Other than that I am very well aware that Theology is complicated stuff but for me it is complexity based on something purely inexistant and so it is of no importance and a waste of time... Well, you can ignore it all you want to, but that still doesn't make it the "easy way out." If you think the world's major religions are based on some guys some who made some stuff up at some point to answer the questions they did not have the science yet to answer, you need to go back and take high school history again. I don't see how Evolution and Adam and Eve can be compatible... Why not? The Bible clearly tells the story of the creation the world and creation of man, but the Bible was written with theological truth in mind - not as a blow by blow technical guide to exactly how everything was done. There was nobody around to see it anyway. So they are compatible in the following way. Man physically may have developed naturally, gradually, as in the theory of evolution, but at some point in that development, God made man, well, man. By giving him a soul. The first man given a soul is traditionally called Adam. This makes perfect sense, since even a child can see there is something more to man than the other animals. He thinks. He is creative. Morallity, honor, love - these things are absent even in the most advanced animals, except man. For the Christian (and the Jew and the Muslim) these things were explicitly granted to man by God. For the atheist - well, I guess they're still working on figuring that out. In any case, that's pretty much outside the bounds of the theory of evolution. And I'm not making this stuff up, by the way; Pope Pius XII basically stated this in the encyclical Humani generis. Christians who argue that evolution is incompatible with Christianity are usually from the Fundamentalist school of thought. They basically defend the notion that the Bible is to be taken completely literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jem Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 I don't need to take high school history lessons again because they never dealt on religion... And I don't just think that the world's major religions are based on some guys who made some stuff up at some point to answer the questions they did not have the science yet to answer I just don't believe in god and that's it. My previous opinion on why religion was created was a mere thought in which I had never brought any attention, I don't care how religion was created I'll keep on not believing in it. I don't have the required lore on theology to have a proper discussion on it, I know nothing of it... all I know is that I don't believe in it and that's that. I must admit that the thing on the Evolution's compatibility with Adam and Eve you just mentioned is intersestind and I would never have thought of that... Right now these constant emails I get from the forum is what worries me most...can I have some help here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Originally posted by Jem I don't need to take high school history lessons again because they never dealt on religion... You never learned in school about the development and history of the world's major religions? But so much of history was shaped by them! And I don't just think that the world's major religions are based on some guys who made some stuff up at some point to answer the questions they did not have the science yet to answer I just don't believe in god and that's it. My previous opinion on why religion was created was a mere thought in which I had never brought any attention, I don't care how religion was created I'll keep on not believing in it. I don't have the required lore on theology to have a proper discussion on it, I know nothing of it... all I know is that I don't believe in it and that's that. OK, so ... someone tells you there is a perfect, all powerfull being who knew everything about you even before you were conceived, and even now sustains you, instant to instant, such that if he were to stop, you would simply be nothing. Add to that that atheism has never won the reasoned assent of any significant number of thinking men. This doesn't seem worth a little further investigation to you? You don't even care? Doesn't that seem a bit prideful and foolhardy? After all, we know we won't live forever, so if there is an afterlife, don't you think you might want to at least consider that? Forever IS a long time, you know. I must admit that the thing on the Evolution's compatibility with Adam and Eve you just mentioned is intersesting and I would never have thought of that... Well, perhaps we were a little careless in speaking about the "Theory of Evolution" as there are really several theories. Some of them are not compatible with Christianity and other religions (those that state that EVERYTHING man is, body AND mind, developed explicitly from lower life forms). But there is nothing in the basics of the evolution of man's form from lower life forms that gets in the way of the "special creation" of man (i.e. the story of Adam and Eve), though, as I said, some Christians do hold that this is so, so I should be careful not to speak for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jem Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Originally posted by Keyan Farlander You never learned in school about the development and history of the world's major religions? But so much of history was shaped by them! Nope, this is what I can remember studying in History these past few years: WW I, WW II, Colonisation, Decolonisation, periode between WW I and II, Cold War, Economic periodes related stuff, lots of stuff dealing on France (Monarchy, the different republics, la Resistance and so on...), I remember this stuff about Otto Von Bismark, Bourgeoisie in French society, etc etc... As for the really old stuff, about 7 years ago, I can hardly remember, there was: Napoleon, Romans, Greeks, Egypt... I know I'm not mentioning all but that's all I can think of right now, nothing was religion related. I have always studied under the french educational system and the only thing that was near to religion was this Catechism class I took during a year, and they were optional, I didn't want to take them but my parents made me...that was back when I lived in Canada, about 6 or 7 years ago. I didn't learn much out of it, the only thing I can remember was this story about the guy who had stones thrown to him by an angry mob... But it was only in Canada were I witnessed the possibility to take Catechism classes, the many other french system schools I went to didn't offer such a choice. After all, we know we won't live forever, so if there is an afterlife, don't you think you might want to at least consider that? Forever IS a long time, you know. I believe that after death is exactky the same thing than before we were born, in other words: nothing. Another interesting thing, I never thought I'd say this but you make this "religion theory" sound... well... interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Originally posted by Jem Nope, this is what I can remember studying in History these past few years: WW I, WW II, Colonisation, Decolonisation, periode between WW I and II, Cold War, Economic periodes related stuff, lots of stuff dealing on France (Monarchy, the different republics, la Resistance and so on...), I remember this stuff about Otto Von Bismark, Bourgeoisie in French society, etc etc... As for the really old stuff, about 7 years ago, I can hardly remember, there was: Napoleon, Romans, Greeks, Egypt... I know I'm not mentioning all but that's all I can think of right now, nothing was religion related. I have always studied under the french educational system and the only thing that was near to religion was this Catechism class I took during a year, and they were optional, I didn't want to take them but my parents made me...that was back when I lived in Canada, about 6 or 7 years ago. I didn't learn much out of it, the only thing I can remember was this story about the guy who had stones thrown to him by an angry mob... But it was only in Canada were I witnessed the possibility to take Catechism classes, the many other french system schools I went to didn't offer such a choice. Well, OK - that's pretty weird. I believe that after death is exactky the same thing than before we were born, in other words: nothing. Well, that's all well and good, but when you say "I believe..." what does that mean? Something you'd like to think is true? Something you hope is true? It certainly isn't from examining all the available evidence and drawing the most logical conclusion. This isn't even an issue of religion, I would say - it's actually more like philosophy. Have you ever had any classes in philosophy? Another interesting thing, I never thought I'd say this but you make this "religion theory" sound... well... interesting... I can make anything sound interesting, baby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlib Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Originally posted by Jem Right now these constant emails I get from the forum is what worries me most...can I have some help here? See this thread here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jem Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 Well that explains stuff edlib...I stopped getting them today, what a relief. And yes I did take philosophy class, this year actually and it's only in the last year that you take philosopy in the french system. But I found it really boring and didn't pay much attention, by the end of the year I had completely stopped taking notes... I never did have a grade above average in philosophy, I was totally careless about it and a kept writing gibberish on my 8 pages long essays... I soon realized that a 3 pages long essay gave me the same marks so I later wrote less gebberish but it was still gibberish... Something you'd like to think is true? Something you hope is true? It certainly isn't from examining all the available evidence and drawing the most logical conclusion. No, just something I don't care about. I can make anything sound interesting, baby Just wait until we get into the details, I'm gonna be snoring like if there was no tomorow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadPilot Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 I'm not subject to the same horrendous public schooling you are. My school is one of the top 100 public schools in the Nation. I attended a public school in England, frequently labelled by the press as "the worst school in the country". Does that make me a moron? No. There is absolutely no point in arguing about whether public school or homeschooling is better. It all depends on the individual. If you are intelligent and you gain all the necessary information to get through life, then it doesn't matter how you are educated. "When they took the Ten Commandments, they killed our children: " The images still haunt me of students running out of Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. Do you seriously believe that it wouldn't have happpened if they taught the Ten Commandments in school? For some reason, arguments about forced religion rarely occur in the UK. I think the reason for this is that all students have Religious Education. You learn about different religions even if you completely disagree with them. This leads to UNDERSTANDING and TOLERANCE. Things that haven't been demonstrated very well in this thread. The theory of Evolution cannot exist. It is simply not possible, by one simple law, that science itself discovered. The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that all matter and energy, by nature, will decay, not create new things. Look around guys, it's the truth. Another contradiction. You are using a scientific law to prove science is wrong. Don't use science to defend religion if you believe that religions theories are correct and scientific ones aren't. Even the theory of evolution is wrong, for me it's still easier to believe than any religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyan Farlander Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 Originally posted by Jem And yes I did take philosophy class, this year actually and it's only in the last year that you take philosopy in the french system. But I found it really boring and didn't pay much attention, by the end of the year I had completely stopped taking notes... I never did have a grade above average in philosophy, I was totally careless about it and a kept writing gibberish on my 8 pages long essays... I soon realized that a 3 pages long essay gave me the same marks so I later wrote less gebberish but it was still gibberish... ... No, just something I don't care about. This is the core of the problem right here. How can you not take an interest in your own existence? How can you not be facinated by truth and beauty as you learned about in philosophy class? I bet you are not a Beethoven lover! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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