AgentSmith Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 Here's a good one for you. The movies are canon, agreed. The illustrated guides and reference guides to the movies are canon, agreed. The movie novelizations, EU books and comics are not considered as canon -as Redwing so well quoted Lucas, a clouded window- agreed. Now what of the exclusive new 'The Official Star Wars Fact File'? (Not available in the USA I think? I buy the Dutch version here, it's a weekly collector.) It has lots of detailed information about Ep I, IV, V and VI (perhaps Ep II sometime in the future issues) but also EU elements like the past of Nute Gunray, Jar Jar, Darth Maul, and such characters. It's the 'official' publication from Lucas (not himself personally off course) so canon or not canon? Even though it contains EU facts, I think it's hard to just dismiss it as non-canon because all the EU facts mentioned are only those that fall exactly in line with the movies. A paradox that one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted July 8, 2002 Author Share Posted July 8, 2002 Originally posted by Legacy_Of_Sith Yeah, what really sucked was that my friend told me about that before I saw the movie. You should have punched him in the face! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiran Halcyon Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 Well at least i will always believe that the saber colors are Blue, green, purple, red, silver, orange, yellow, crimsom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Exar Kun Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 The EU is every day star wars life if there was Eu Star Wars would be half of what it is now no luke clone no kyle katarn no mara jade no jacen jaina or anankin solo no exar kun no double bladed saber and more imporant no exar kun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koffin Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 Originally posted by Nebelwerfer_ well, that's what exactly the authors of EU do, guess. Uh....did you ever look into all that goes on for a writer to write a SW novel? It may be his words telling us a story, but it aint his story. And all stories are approved by the man himself. Story lines are maintained and directed by Lucas Companies. Either way you look at it, good ol george does have a say so about what gets created in EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan 00X Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 The EU is every day star wars life if there was Eu Star Wars would be half of what it is now no luke clone no kyle katarn no mara jade no jacen jaina or anankin solo no exar kun no double bladed saber and more imporant no exar kun geez that hurz my brain just to read that Uh....did you ever look into all that goes on for a writer to write a SW novel?And all stories are approved by the man himself. Story lines are maintained and directed by Lucas Companies. Either way you look at it, good ol george does have a say so about what gets created in EU. Yah, the EU stories are approved by GL, but that doesn't mean he has any intention to acknowledge its existence in the movies, if you want to believe that Owen Lars and boba fett have two histories which contradict each other due to the EU then go ahead believe what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentSmith Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 Mhhh am I glad that my favourite character, Aayla Secura originated in the EU and was included in Episode II by George Lucas!!! Making her canon!!! And to acknowledge the people and fans working on EU material, I'm pretty convinced that is is very hard and involving work. We know George Lucas worked and works very hard on Star Wars, that he pours his heart and soul into it. But I think many EU writers, artists also put in a lot of time and passion into creating their work. I try to respect that and their work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted July 10, 2002 Author Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Exar Kun The EU is every day star wars life if there was Eu Star Wars would be half of what it is now no luke clone no kyle katarn no mara jade no jacen jaina or anankin solo no exar kun no double bladed saber and more imporant no exar kun I thought the luke clone was kind of cheesy....i tire of them cloning EVERYBODY in the EU.....that's the one thing that bothers me........and double bladed sabers are canon, there was one in episode 1, unless i'm completely mitaken................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 I believe the EU got off on the wrong foot. At its very conception, they chose a sci-fi author to continue the story. Tim Zahn's a fantastic author, but he ruined SW literature. He lost the mythical feeling and turned the novels to pure sci-fi. Had a fantasy writer been chosen right off the bat, then maybe SW literature would have been better. A good example of what went wrong is this: instead of a Jedi Temple, we have a Jedi Academy. Instead of an Order of warrior monks devoted to the Will of the Force, the Jedi are little more than a militia. Yes, this is KJA's doing and not Zahn's but it shows the continuing trend. Did the NJO stop this trend? Can't say, haven't read them because whenever I dared pick up a SW book after Children of the Jedi, they just kept getting worse and worse. The New Rebellion? Utter crap, campy and... well... it made no sense whatsoever. Rogue Planet? Again, moronic, not worthy of a place in the SW universe. LucasFilm Licensing might keep a careful eye on the EU books; they have certain plot elements they want to happen but everything around those elements are crafted by the author. The author draws up a plot summary and hands it in and gets it approved by someone who has no idea what Lucas has in mind. The book is written and edited by someone else who is equilly ignorant. And where do they find these authors? Yes, many of them are famous in their own rights, many of them have written best-selling novels. But why the heck do you get these people to write Star Wars, especially after this downward spiral happened? Why ruin the most powerful franchise ever by hiring "celebrity guests". Isn't that what ruined the Batman franchise? Producers have to realize that no matter what, these books are going to get sold, whether they have a known name attached to them or not (in fact, despite wasting money on these celebrity guests, the books are terrible but still people buy them because they have the words "Star Wars" on them). Why not get fans? That's another sore spot I have for the EU. These fans hold Star Wars in awe; it's not just another job, it's THE job. This is what they've wanted to do their whole life and they won't screw it up. Hell, they'll work for free, many of them! I know I would. If I were the people at LucasPublishing, I wouldn't be going to someone with a name--I would be scouring the Star Wars fan fiction libraries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotionMan Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Nice post Jedi Monk. If I wrote a sw book I would make Jedi be able to fly and wear capes And If a charecter I liked died I would just clone him as many thimes as I like. I would Have an army of Mace windu clones yelling "We are bad Motha F***ers!!":) I wouldnt do that. I was kidding. I was making a point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentSmith Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 I'm writing a fan fic! Though it probably sucks cause I'm a ****ty writer. I do my best though! It's a story set in the NJO era involving the Yuuzhan Vong and Luke's Jedi's. I just threw some new elements in the mix and some hints towards possibilities in the Force, the Light and Dark side, origins and power of the Jedi without getting into detail or revealing the why's. I just thaught myseries would give it more of an OT feel, no? To let things ot the mind of the reader? If anyone's ever interested in wasting time reading my draft just say so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebelwerfer_ Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Wow, jedi monk, thats' everything I've wanted to say but never formulated into a complete essay as you did. I totally agree with what you said about the authors and plots. I mean, Luke joining the dark side???? what's this, he already did in ROTJ but then realized it was bad and swore he'd never join the dark side, and then some author writes a book proving luke wrong. Instead of 50 crap novels out there, I think there should only be 6-9 quality ones, cause it just gets too hectic and off the subject of the real spirit of starwars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 You realize this is almost purely personal opinion? I for one loved most of Zahn's work. I think alot of EU is lame. I love some EU, though, and if Lucas or Lucasfilm listened to people, Star Wars would not be anything close to what it is. I'm a little tired of people pointing out the "spirit" of Star Wars to indicate validity of the work. It's like all those people saying TPM was non-canon because they didn't like midichlorians. On the flip side of the coin is all those people who insist that Boba Fett died in the Sarlacc and flame people who say otherwise and use the EU for justification. You have to remember...EU is still semi-canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentSmith Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 In the end it will always come down to somebody's own personal opinion and their own point of view. Some might love the movies and the EU, some might only love one of them, some might think the EU is no good, others think it's all great, ... etc. The thing we can learn the most from this, as well as the logical conclusion of this entire thread is : The true nature and opinion of the Star Wars Movies canon/EU debate and the Movies/EU in their own right is that it all comes down to every fan's personal and unique viewpoint and perspective. This means that everyone's different opinion over this subject has its own merit and right and should be respected, we only see through our own eyes and mind and not those of the people we debate with. Respect yourself, respect your fellow Star Wars fans and their personal opinions and discuss it in a spirit of free speech as adults and with politeness. (As was the case here but most of you know there's individuals out there without civility or politeness and an addiction to hating and flaming to use popular terms.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotionMan Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 Originally posted by Redwing and if Lucas or Lucasfilm listened to people, Star Wars would not be anything close to what it is. . I agree. If George listened to people on to what direction to take SW or other requests or ideas like the EU books, SW wouldnt be what it is. A kick ass saga that has captured the hearts of millions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Ginn Posted July 13, 2002 Share Posted July 13, 2002 I agree. George Lucas already knows what he wants and no one could ever change that. Not even the books which i don't think should be thought as what really happens after episode VI. I think it should be left up to the imagination of the fans and not these greedy people always writing books killing of cool characters in stupid ways and making money off it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted July 13, 2002 Share Posted July 13, 2002 I think you didn't read the whole thread ^_^ Welcome to the forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebelwerfer_ Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 When I was 8 I used to make up my own stories with the toys and sometimes even record little movies about my own "EU" using the toys as actors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 There are certain things which are not subjective. Star Wars canon is Lucas' movies; the books contradict the movies, and therfore, they cannot be canon. If they are not canon, they do not describe what happens in the SW universe; since they're not accurate in that respect, then they cannot be used as proof in arguments regarding the SW universe. Simple logic. The EU is little more official than anyone's fan fic. Lucas doesn't go to fanfix.com to validate what he wants in his movies, nor does he go rooting through the books. They're both the same as Lucas doesn't let either of them influence him. Only difference is that the EU makes Lucas money, which then goes to finance the SW movies and so more power to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 Originally posted by Jedi_Monk There are certain things which are not subjective. Star Wars canon is Lucas' movies; the books contradict the movies, and therfore, they cannot be canon. If they are not canon, they do not describe what happens in the SW universe; since they're not accurate in that respect, then they cannot be used as proof in arguments regarding the SW universe. Simple logic. The EU is little more official than anyone's fan fic. Lucas doesn't go to fanfix.com to validate what he wants in his movies, nor does he go rooting through the books. They're both the same as Lucas doesn't let either of them influence him. Only difference is that the EU makes Lucas money, which then goes to finance the SW movies and so more power to them. No, the EU is a clouded window. What contradicts the movies is the part that goes bye bye. It's not an utterly true representation of what happens in the SW universe, but it's still more valid that anyone's fanfic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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