simwiz2 Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by Sithmaster_821 This is getting a little out of hand. Simwiz, your starting to become as annoying as windu. If you find flame wars annoying then why do you start them? I have some advice for you. Don't make stupid comments, and you won't have to see flame wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 So... how about them Gunships? Sheesh, I'm sick for a day and don't get online and everyone just goes nuts. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 everyone just goes nuts Hey! Why is everyone forgetting about me! I'm the voice of reason here, if you didn't notice! Eh... Gunships...... Windu seems to have ditched this thread, and I don't think anybody's going to be convinced that the gunship is good/bad, sooo......... all we can do is wait for other people to come and vote. But they'll probably be deterred as soon as they see the flame wars start. "Hrmm... Begun these Flame Wars have." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by CorranSec Hey! Why is everyone forgetting about me! I'm the voice of reason here, if you didn't notice! Well, ok, not EVERYbody... just the majority. Eh... Gunships...... Windu seems to have ditched this thread, and I don't think anybody's going to be convinced that the gunship is good/bad, sooo......... all we can do is wait for other people to come and vote. But they'll probably be deterred as soon as they see the flame wars start. Yeah, kinda curious actually. Maybe the off-topic flamewar just got to him. I was actually wondering how long it would take to completely move it to one of the other threads, but knowing how things are around here, it will probably cover four or five. "Hrmm... Begun these Flame Wars have." Ack! Does this mean we have to wait three years before we reach a conclusion? Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 completely move it to one of the other threads What, the gunship debate or the flame war? The gunship debate seems to have been given up on by Windu. Point taken about being deterred by the flaming, but he hasn't mentioned it anywhere lately, and if he was still obsessed with it he'd just create yet another thread. The flame war... well, it should have moved to another thread by now. I'm still confused as to why we're using the Gunship thread. Hey..... maybe the Gunship thread could sorta become the home of all off-topic useless debate! Sort of like its original purpose! Ack! Does this mean we have to wait three years before we reach a conclusion? Ack indeed. Actually, it probably will. Have you seen how much avoidance has been going on lately? Apparently simwiz dodged out of having a game on Saturday (don't yell at me wiz, i'm just going off reports), and it's now Sunday (where I live anyway) and they don't seem to have had a game.... This could go on for a rather long time. So, how's the gunship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Corran, not to lecture or anything but if you repeat a lie then you are just as responsible for it as the person who told the lie. Do you really think I would back down just so he can say so on the forums? It would be better to lose than to back down, though it's likely I will do neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 The last page of this thread is funny as hell Oh and im with whoever thinks Normal speed is good. Other than that i never really saw many points to the argyement lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 I think that windu dropped the idea because of the predicament hes in. This thread went off topic at about page 5, and he cant post another gunship thread cause hes pushed DMUK's patience too far. Corran and Kryllith, maybe we can have a gunship discussion while simwiz tries to flame everyone for ignoring him? Ill get the ball rolling by making a summary of the top five no to gunship points that have come up in the total of 15 gunship pages: 5. The gunship serves the same purpose as a fighter 4. The gunship can be easily and cost effectively replicated by using transports and fghters 3. its too micro intensive 2. two troopers will do didly squat in any battle 1. Gameplay>realism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 What actually is a gun ship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Dumb idea that darth windu created in june and has staunchly defended since. This is his fourth thread about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by AU_Andy_Ewok Oh and im with whoever thinks Normal speed is good. Other than that i never really saw many points to the argyement lol Tell that to pbguy, he thinks normal is a n00b speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by Sithmaster_821 Ill get the ball rolling by making a summary of the top five no to gunship points that have come up in the total of 15 gunship pages: 5. The gunship serves the same purpose as a fighter 4. The gunship can be easily and cost effectively replicated by using transports and fghters 3. its too micro intensive 2. two troopers will do didly squat in any battle 1. Gameplay>realism Oooooh, goodie goodie. Now I can respond. 5. That's like saying the Air Speeder, Jedi Starfighter, or Air Cruiser serve the same purpose as the fighter. Could even toss in the A-wing (which would be more truthful) and the bomber (since it flies and fires, just not at air targets). The gunship wouldn't be best designed for dogfighting (like the fighter is), so it wouldn't serve the same purpose. 4. Perhaps, but one of the points of the Gunship is to change playing style via increasing diversity. Remember that one of the limiting factors against the gunship would be to alter the Republic transport so that it doesn't carry man-size units (effectively the transport would be the mech dropper we see in the movies, with perhaps a 2-3 mech/heavy carrying capacity rather than the 1 assault mech). 3. Again, perhaps, but other units can be rather micro intensive as well. Various jedis can move, fight, carry holocrons AND convert. Both the Mech Destroyer and the Assault Mech can move, fire, and carry troops. I won't even bother getting into what all workers can do, since they're non-military. Seems there was a big argument earlier about AA units being to microintensive because they would run up to people during combat, or artillery being too micro-intensive because you'd have to turn them to no-fire anytime you wanted them NOT to shoot at walls, but both of these arguments were shot down. Seems to me there's other ways to cut down micromanaging if people are worried about it. 2. Depends on how you use them. I've made people last a long time by dropping them, having them fire, and picking them up again (microintensive but effective). You don't have to be limited to troopers though. Two Jedi Masters (especially those of the Republic's caliber) can be quite effective. 1. Again I'm going back to effecting changes in gameplay by creating diversity in units. Modifying how the Republic uses transports would promote change in gameplay. How well people manage to take advantage of the changes (or suffer from them) depends on the individual people. Simply put, if the addition of the Gunship didn't affect gameplay (balanced mind you), then I wouldn't be the least bit interested in it. Think this might detract from the flamewar at all? Or are we just rehashing the same things? BTW, if we're doing thread counts, I see at least 2 threads already made for the Simwiz2 vs. Pbguy1121 competition. Last I saw one wasn't being used for a flame, but we shall see. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 So the Gunship is an air transport that holds mechs and attacks air units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Now we're getting somewhere:) 5. That's like saying the Air Speeder, Jedi Starfighter, or Air Cruiser serve the same purpose as the fighter. Could even toss in the A-wing (which would be more truthful) and the bomber (since it flies and fires, just not at air targets). The gunship wouldn't be best designed for dogfighting (like the fighter is), so it wouldn't serve the same purpose. Purposes: Fighter-To engage other air craft and support land units by attacking behind enemy lines. Air Speeder-Rebels used them mainly to scout and rescue before the empire came. They were used effectively against mechs using cables but never could dent anything else. Jedi Starfighter-Used as reconssaince and jedi shuttle. Not good in dogfights Air Cruisers-Never seen in movies, but if they were they were their purpose would probably be to hit cities from space. A-Wing-A fast but light fighter (it is just that, they added it for the GAMEPLAY reason of making the rebels hve the best air because the were in danger of being edged out by the republic, so, in a sense, adding the gunship is just shooting yourself in the foot. Bomber-Used to attack permantent structures and capital ships. Died readily to air or land forces. Gunship-To engage other air craft in atmostsphere, and to support land units by attacking behind enemy lines. Also had the ability to carry a neligible amount of troopers. Seems like the gunship has a very similar prupose to the fighter as compared to the other ones you named 4. Perhaps, but one of the points of the Gunship is to change playing style via increasing diversity. Remember that one of the limiting factors against the gunship would be to alter the Republic transport so that it doesn't carry man-size units (effectively the transport would be the mech dropper we see in the movies, with perhaps a 2-3 mech/heavy carrying capacity rather than the 1 assault mech). How does merging two units into one add diversity? Also, your contraticting yourself by saying the transport is much better than the gunship could ever be. 3. Again, perhaps, but other units can be rather micro intensive as well. Various jedis can move, fight, carry holocrons AND convert. Both the Mech Destroyer and the Assault Mech can move, fire, and carry troops. I won't even bother getting into what all workers can do, since they're non-military. Seems there was a big argument earlier about AA units being to microintensive because they would run up to people during combat, or artillery being too micro-intensive because you'd have to turn them to no-fire anytime you wanted them NOT to shoot at walls, but both of these arguments were shot down. Seems to me there's other ways to cut down micromanaging if people are worried about it. Nobody uses the transport thing for mechs. So, if you use the mech example, the gunship would be an expensive fighter with a special ability no one would use. Jedi never have to carry relics and fight at the same time, same goes for workers. The gunship would be tons of added micro compared to letting the transports drop off units while the fighters defend them. Also, gunships that are dropping are vunerable and gunships that are attacking have the possiblity of losing their cargo. the levithan in AoM can attack and transport, but i dont know how good it is because the alpha didnt come with a good water map. And it was windu who was complaining about that, which seems kinda hypocritical in light of his other micro inesive ideas. I told him to just group his units, but some people rather micro. 2. Depends on how you use them. I've made people last a long time by dropping them, having them fire, and picking them up again (microintensive but effective). You don't have to be limited to troopers though. Two Jedi Masters (especially those of the Republic's caliber) can be quite effective. Troopers arent jedi masters:) 1. Again I'm going back to effecting changes in gameplay by creating diversity in units. Modifying how the Republic uses transports would promote change in gameplay. How well people manage to take advantage of the changes (or suffer from them) depends on the individual people. Simply put, if the addition of the Gunship didn't affect gameplay (balanced mind you), then I wouldn't be the least bit interested in it Anything added will affect gameplay. If we were to use joe's idea of a death star that kills the enemy in one hit, that would affect gameplay. The idea behind gameplay>realism is that all ideas come from a gameplay perspective(at least this far in development), and then fit into a realistic slot. Take AC's for example. How different do you think they would be if LA came from a realistic perspective. They added a unit that is not in any movie but made a gameplay fix for the better, then tried to fit it best they could in a realistic manner. And, if the republic keeps their regular transports, the only decision the player would have to make is do i want to waste my resourses or not. Just my two cents. I know you'll reply and the future of this thread looks relatively decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadrixTF Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 Well, i for one certainly misunderstood the whole Gunship idea - i didn't read Windu's earlier Gunship threads. I thought the Gunship was the Air Cruiser and that he wanted it to be a UU for Republic. But if it is another added unit, then definatley NO, NO and NO to Gunships!!! ( My answer was still NO anyway..) Thanks Ewok for asking the question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted September 30, 2002 Author Share Posted September 30, 2002 The general gunship idea- To create the Republic Gunship as a Republic Unique Unit in order to emphasise the Republic's strength's in Jedi and Infantry and to alter and enhance strategies from and against the Republic. The general specs would be- 1. gunship poor vs aircraft and buildings, good against mechs, infantry, heavies (not as good vs infantry as fighters, not as good vs mechs as airspeeder etc) 2. could carry approx 2 infantry (troops, jedi, workers etc) 3. modification to republic transport so that it has a smaller mech carrying ability than other civs 4. unit seen as something to conduct an armed assault with - transport troops to an LZ and then procede to provide effective air support against most enemy units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedi3112 Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 It's basicly just an armed transport helicopter, used for infantry landing operations while at the same time providing cover fire for the landing troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 Originally posted by Sithmaster_821 Purposes: Fighter-To engage other air craft and support land units by attacking behind enemy lines. Gunship-To engage other air craft in atmostsphere, and to support land units by attacking behind enemy lines. Also had the ability to carry a neligible amount of troopers. The Gunship as we've discussed would not be a good dogfighter (kind like sticking a fighter up against an air speeder, the speeder CAN fight, but unless it outnumbers the fighters by about 3-4 to 1, then it's toast). If would serve primarily as a ground attack unit with different strengths against units than the fighters have (as Windu noted). How does merging two units into one add diversity? Also, your contraticting yourself by saying the transport is much better than the gunship could ever be. The diversity exists between the different civilizations. Transporting units with the Republic would be fairly different from any other unit because of different carrying capacities/types. The Gunship would serve to provide cover and transportation of the Republics primary units: troopers (based on their ability to pump them out quickly) and Jedi (which are naturally the most powerful Jedi in the game). How exactly would I be contradicting myself? The transport would be a better transport than the Gunship because that's it's primary purpose. I've no argument there. But the transport doesn't have ability to fire either. It's give and take... Nobody uses the transport thing for mechs. So, if you use the mech example, the gunship would be an expensive fighter with a special ability no one would use. Jedi never have to carry relics and fight at the same time, same goes for workers. The gunship would be tons of added micro compared to letting the transports drop off units while the fighters defend them. Also, gunships that are dropping are vunerable and gunships that are attacking have the possiblity of losing their cargo. the levithan in AoM can attack and transport, but i dont know how good it is because the alpha didnt come with a good water map. And it was windu who was complaining about that, which seems kinda hypocritical in light of his other micro inesive ideas. I told him to just group his units, but some people rather micro. I do, but I guess that just me. I use them to keep troops safe and quick strikes and pull them out when I need them (or I use them to transport workers/AA). Additionally, I have had my Jedi have to drop a relic, fight, then pick up the relic again and continue on his way. That's what I mean by having to micromanage them. Of course, I didn't HAVE to have him drop it and fight; I could have just had him continue running to home base. I'd take the risks as an acceptable chance of the game. If people don't like the risks, they don't have to play the Republic, just like they don't have to play certain civs because they have weak air, or mechs, or whatever. Yeah it's a risk; the trick is to see who can make it work. Admittedly, I for one have a tendency to over micro-manage my units so it wouldn't bother me that much; others may feel different. Troopers arent jedi masters:) Nope, they aren't. Still, I've been in a number of situations where a couple of troopers did the trick (especially AA troopers). Anything added will affect gameplay. If we were to use joe's idea of a death star that kills the enemy in one hit, that would affect gameplay. The idea behind gameplay>realism is that all ideas come from a gameplay perspective(at least this far in development), and then fit into a realistic slot. Take AC's for example. How different do you think they would be if LA came from a realistic perspective. They added a unit that is not in any movie but made a gameplay fix for the better, then tried to fit it best they could in a realistic manner. And, if the republic keeps their regular transports, the only decision the player would have to make is do i want to waste my resourses or not. Ok, maybe I was a bit hmmm overbrief (this a word) in affecting gameplay. I'd want something that can effectly change the strategies people use without 1) throwing the game way out of balance or 2) creating uber-units that people would become totally reliant on (such as the idea of a gunship that can carry 10 units with twin rockets for high AA damage and 4 individually targeting lasers for ground troops). I think the Gunship can be used for to alter strategy (both for the person playing the Republic and for those fighting against it) without throwing the entire game into a loop. It wouldn't be so powerful that people would be totally reliant on it (fact is, if people were totally reliant on it then they'd probably lose), but it could affect the choices people (both Republic and non-Republic) make when building their military. Just my two cents. I know you'll reply and the future of this thread looks relatively decent. Well we can only hope. Sadly my mind is in a bit of a fog (I'm sick) so I'm having problems formulating ideas and I'm at work so I'm on limited time. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 The Gunship as we've discussed would not be a good dogfighter (kind like sticking a fighter up against an air speeder, the speeder CAN fight, but unless it outnumbers the fighters by about 3-4 to 1, then it's toast). If would serve primarily as a ground attack unit with different strengths against units than the fighters have (as Windu noted). Gunships were used against aircraft, its just that the one we saw didnt fire at he fighter so that they could have an excuse for letting dooku away (if you run out of missiles, use your lasers, thats what they're there for!) The diversity exists between the different civilizations. Transporting units with the Republic would be fairly different from any other unit because of different carrying capacities/types. The Gunship would serve to provide cover and transportation of the Republics primary units: troopers (based on their ability to pump them out quickly) and Jedi (which are naturally the most powerful Jedi in the game). How exactly would I be contradicting myself? The transport would be a better transport than the Gunship because that's it's primary purpose. I've no argument there. But the transport doesn't have ability to fire either. It's give and take... You still didnt answer my question. When ever you merge two units into one in a balanced game, there are two and only two possibilties. 1)The unit will be overpowered simply because it has the abilities of two in the frame of one 2)The unit is nerfed for the sake of balance, resulting in the rise of whatever unit it was meant to counter when the game was balanced or, if they choose to keep the two units that were merged in the game, the unit is never used becuase there are other better units to build. Also, while on the topic of balance and diversity, the republic is already strong and quite popular. If you were adding units from a gameplay perspective(im a little ahead of myself i know), you would realize that the republic is one of the worst possible targets of unit adding. The a-wing was added not because it was in the movies, or because everyone wanted an a-wing to use, but to make sure that the rebels retained their powerful airforce and their uniqueness in the face of the republic (who share the same strengths as the rebels). So adding the gunship to the republic's arsenal would not only be realism>gameplay, it would negate a previous gameplay>realism idea and ruin the rebels individuality. I do, but I guess that just me. I use them to keep troops safe and quick strikes and pull them out when I need them (or I use them to transport workers/AA). Additionally, I have had my Jedi have to drop a relic, fight, then pick up the relic again and continue on his way. That's what I mean by having to micromanage them. Of course, I didn't HAVE to have him drop it and fight; I could have just had him continue running to home base. I'd take the risks as an acceptable chance of the game. If people don't like the risks, they don't have to play the Republic, just like they don't have to play certain civs because they have weak air, or mechs, or whatever. Yeah it's a risk; the trick is to see who can make it work. Admittedly, I for one have a tendency to over micro-manage my units so it wouldn't bother me that much; others may feel different. Transporting using mechs is rarely seen because the mechs are slower and much juicier targets than their cargo. But even a mech doesnt have to worry about transporting as a priority, because, even if it is killed, the units plop right out like nothing happened. Same with jedi. They can drop their relic instantly and atany time to fend off attackers with little worry that they're prize will be taken from them. The gunship, because it has a specific place to go and drop off and its cargo are risked if it decides to attack, requires much micro and is probably too risky for the average gamer. Remember kryllith, the average game despises microing (some to the extent of windu, who refuses to group his units in a sensible fashion because it takes his delicate concentration off his 7 workers:) ) A transport/fighter arrangement can send the fighters to crush the opposition (the fighters would be head and shoulders better than a hypothetical gunship for balancing concerns), while the transport continues on its way or waits patiently on the sidelines. This alos makes your opponent micro and decide which target would he rather take, the fighters that are shooting at him or the transport that is holding the valuable units. With the gunship, both are in a nice neat easy to kill package. Ok, maybe I was a bit hmmm overbrief (this a word) in affecting gameplay. I'd want something that can effectly change the strategies people use without 1) throwing the game way out of balance or 2) creating uber-units that people would become totally reliant on (such as the idea of a gunship that can carry 10 units with twin rockets for high AA damage and 4 individually targeting lasers for ground troops). I think the Gunship can be used for to alter strategy (both for the person playing the Republic and for those fighting against it) without throwing the entire game into a loop. It wouldn't be so powerful that people would be totally reliant on it (fact is, if people were totally reliant on it then they'd probably lose), but it could affect the choices people (both Republic and non-Republic) make when building their military. See my second response for problems with gunship balance. Also, you persist to think in a realism>gameplay perspective (also see second response). You came up with an idea from the movies and are trying to make it fit in the game. Thats like putting a square peg in a circular hole. Once a game has about a year or so left in development, no ideas can be taken from a realism>gameplay perspective, and all additions must have stemmed from gameplay problems. We're a bit passed that mark now, so the gunship idea is incredibily out of the question. Since ive exhausted this game's expansion's units, ill take examples from TC: Halberdier-added to deter heavy calvary from dominating late game. Hussar-Give people with low gold or light cav bonuses a fighting chance (esp. targeted towards mongols) Or even techs from either game: The power core and sheild generator techs-power cores died like rabbits at a rotwailer owners convention and sheild generators wrent very powerful Antiair retro fit-non air civs were cruiser fodder. caravan-trading was to slow to do any good parthinian tatics-cav archers sucked and, instead of beefing up the unit, ensemble opted to enhance those civs who would build cav archers In summation, the gunship idea is totally destined to fail on the grounds of gameplay>realism Windu i konw your gonna read this, so i wanted you to know that this thread has galactic disscussion's all time high for either posts or views (my question thread is 22nd and 20th respectively) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 lol... his 7 workers To quote homer simpson... it's funny because it's true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted October 1, 2002 Author Share Posted October 1, 2002 Sithmaster - if you had bothered to read my post, you would see that he Gunship is not simply a merger of the Transport and Fighter, it has qualities of both, but as stated would not carry as much (or anything larger than troops) than the transport, and would be very venerable to fighter's. Also, you said that 'gunships were used against aircraft'. Hate to tell ya but no, they werent. The impression that they COULD be used against aircraft was there, but we never actually saw any Air-to-Air engagements. Besides, the gunship seemed to be destroyed pretty quickly by those fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadrixTF Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Sithmaster, although this thread is the undisputed leader in posts / views, i think your Question Thread will soon be challenging it's place as number 1... Windu, i think the Republic has very strong Air ability as it is - maybe as a Toybox unit or something, but adding it to the game would give the Republic an unfair advantage don't you think...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Um... wow. It's all back on track now. Oops, sorry simwiz, I knew that would come out wrong. I'm not taking sides or anything, just repeating what I heard. Windu- Oh, you're back. Were we right? Did you leave as soon as you saw flames taking over your thread? Hmmm. Now, back to the actual Gunship debate.... Sith, I don't really consider the Gunship as a merging. The original units will still be there and still be used. About the whole air-to-air thing: we're thinking gameplay>realism here, as you're so fond of saying! No matter whether the movie gunship could fire at aircraft, decimate troops, mow the lawn or butter your toast, the game gunship will be modified to fit the game. Actually, if we consider what has been posted recently, the Gunship seems to be more of a bomber/transport combo (with different weapons and carrying capacity, of course). It would probably need to be supported by fighter escorts, and wouldn't be able to do much at all by itself, unless there's just a couple of troops/workers/whatever. Basically, it would improve the Republic's transport and assault power, while balancing it out with the fact that you'd need quite a few gunships and that enemy fighters can knock many gunships out of the air en route. For example, the A-Wing, which has been mentioned lately, would work quite well against travelling Gunships. Say you have a pair of gunships escorted by four Advanced Fighters. Five Advanced A-Wings could swing by, take out the 2 gunships, and probably clear out before suffering any casualties from the fighters. A Gunship would probably lose any one-on-one with enemy aircraft (apart from the airspeeder maybe... that would be interesting), but it might be given an extra edge if it was carrying AA troopers and dropped them out to provide support. This would provide for some interesting battles indeed. So basically, the Gunship is a diverse and unique unit which doesn't contain enough elements of any one ship to make it that ship, yet could not fit into its own unit category, therefore it deserves a place as a Unique Unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 The point i was making about air-to-air was that fighters are anti-ground and anti-air, thus making the gunship a perfect canidate as a fighter. Windu, et al. have yet to give a substantial argument on what the hell the problem is with the gunship being a fighter other than "it can carry five troopers". SWGB is a game of representation, like most RST's. The gunships cargo would probably amount to about 1/4 a trooper. So if you want trooper peices marching around, be my guest. Also, just because certain units have certain abilities doesnt make them unique. The unit arts are grouped into general groups in order for generic units to work. TIE defenders had shields and could out run an A-wing, the naboo and rebels have aristemic(sp?) droids to repair their ships, the TF's droids are controled by droids, the gungans have frickin' ball shooting dinosaurs. The gunship isnt any different than any of those other fighters, SO WHY SHOULD IT BE UNIQUE? And i will also repeat what i said about the A-wing and rebel air. If LA is trying very hard to make the rebel air stronger and more diverse than the republics, WHY WOULD THEY GIVE THE REPUBLIC ANOTHER AIR UNIT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Okay, I have a few reasons against the Gunship UU. I'm not sure if any of this has been said recently, as the newer posts on this thread are WAY too long for me to want to read. *It fits as it is, there is no need to change it. Something is best left alone until there is reason to change it IMO. *A Gunship would lack a niche to fill. It could be overpowered, underpowered, useless, etc. But to have it alongside a fighter and a transport is pointless. *It will not benefit gameplay in any way. The "new strategy" phase would last all of 5 minutes, since the Gunship would merely be an amalgamation of two existing units. ...Back to Windu/Gunship bashing! Now this is more like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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