simwiz2 Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 Originally posted by Sithmaster_821 Maybe the empire should be able to hunt ATATs and ATSTs for food because they look like farm animals. :lol: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted September 7, 2002 Author Share Posted September 7, 2002 What im saying is that it is not a fighter. Sure, it has anti-air ability, so does the Mi-24 Hind, but their main role is to land troops into battle, and then prodive armed support for those troops, that is the whole idea of the gunship. A fighter is an aircraft designed to gain and hold air superiority over the battlefield, nothing more, nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 sigh.... then in theory, it would get slaughtered by fighters... so why bother having it? use a transport and guard it with fighters. DUH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 Even more simple... Give the current transports defensive weapons... The medium transport has some defensive weapons... We don't see them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 8, 2002 Share Posted September 8, 2002 It didnt seem like the gunships were giving cover. It looked like they plopped down a couple guys and left to go kick some droid butt. Also, most of the clones came from those big transport thingies, and the gunships acted as armed gaurds for the transports (see pbguy's post). A fighter is an aircraft designed to gain and hold air superiority over the battlefield, nothing more, nothing less. Which is essensially what the gunship did. This thread desparately needs closing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 Way I saw it, they came in with cover fire, dropped off clone troopers, picked up Jedi and then moved elsewhere. Then they served a variety of functions, be it attacking ships that were trying to take off or tranporting Jedi/Troopers to various parts of the battleground... Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W0RF Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 For a ship whose primary job is to land troops, the Republic ship sure had a lot of lasers and rockets (well, two rockets) You need to stop comparing the republic ship to real-life military vehicles, not because it is inaccurate, but becaue it is irrelevant. What freaking difference does it make if it acts like a fighter or a helicopter or a hot-air balloon? SWGB doesn't have helicopters and hot-air balloons and Romulan warbirds and Fokker triplanes. They have fighters. So, the Republic has a ship that shoots things? We'll make it a fighter!!! DUH!!!!! Ships that primarily shoot things are fighters. Ships that primarily land troops are transports. Why should LA retool the entire Republic for a ship that shoots things and lands troops, when they already have ships that can do each of these things? DMUK, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, CLOSE THIS THREAD!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoL ShadowJedi Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 Yeah DMUK close this thread, WORF, it fires 2 missiles at a time, it has a lot more than that, unless u meant what i just said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 Both the Mech Destroyer and the Assault Mech fire and carry units (granted, the MD can only carry 1). Are they attack units or transports... Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 The AT-AT transporting units is different.First it can't fly and second there isn't much of a use to it. My point is it can't fly and thus cannot infiltrate a base and unload his troopers(well not by air and it's too slow anyway to infiltrate...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 Ditto, what luke said. Assault mechs are too slow to be used as transports, so i use them as safe havens for injured units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 oh for the love of god, someone PLEASE close this thread!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted September 10, 2002 Author Share Posted September 10, 2002 The snowspeeder fly's and shoots, why isnt it the Rebel fighter? The A-wing fly's and shoots things, why isnt it the Rebel fighter? The Destroyer Droid is a good anti-infantry ground unit, why isnt it the TF strike mech? Because they are unique, ie no other civ has an equivalent, hence the term Unique Unit. Now exactly what unit in Star Wars has the same abilities as the Gunship and the same role of Assault Transport? None, and that is the best reason as to why it should be a unique unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad The AT-AT transporting units is different.First it can't fly and second there isn't much of a use to it. My point is it can't fly and thus cannot infiltrate a base and unload his troopers(well not by air and it's too slow anyway to infiltrate...). No, but it could keep troops protected while it laid down cover fire, then drop them off the way the gunship would. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W0RF Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 KOL - when I said that it fired two rockets I was commenting on the gunshipin the movie that only shot down a few confeds, then "Destroy Dooku" "We're out of rockets!" Gee how convenient, I guess we need a swordfight now. Windu - The Republic already have a UU, the Starfighter. The thing that you don't understand is that you have to convince us that it's worth changing the gunship FROM a Fast Fighter TO a UU, replace the art for the FF, and rebalance the whole civ to include a unit that doesn't really do anything that other units don't already do for them. The burden of proof is ON YOU, and you haven't come CLOSE to justifying the time, cost, and effort. And so, I renew my plea, PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Windu may say what he wants on this matter, but personally I've only to say this: I've given means for balancing it; I've given reasons for change (affecting changes in strategy and gameplay); as for the third, numerous unique units are simply other units with minor changes. How much different is there between the way a Strike Mech and a Dark Trooper work, or Strike Mech and a Destroyer Droid, an Advanced Mounted Trooper and a Royal Crusader (or even a Berserker), or others. There are some differences in power (shielding of the Crusader and HHD, regen for the berserker, anti-mech bonus for the snow speeder, range for the a-wing, etc), but these differences are not so vast that they qualify these units as irreplaceable. Heck, the Gungan's unique is the only one that comes to mind as being truly unique (even though the Jedi Starfighter gets some jedi powers) since no other unit can generate a shield; the others are just modified upscaled version of other units. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 well, the air speeder is like a flying mech destroyer... pretty unique... and the bersekers are just insane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Berserkers can be decent. I'm used to mowing them down with HHDs or fighters so they really didn't impressed me that much, but I guess it really depends on what they're attacking and how many are doing it (of course the regen is always nice to have). As for the air speeders; technically it would be a double redundant unit since the Rebels already have both fighters and mech destroyers. The air speeder is hardly needed, handy to have I admit since all mechs but 1 can't counter, but given units other units can do it's job... See the point? It's the same with the gunship. Sure a fighter escorted transport can transport unit and give it cover fire, but the gunship would be able to do both... hardly needed but can be handy to have, just like pretty much all the UUs. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 All right I get it(at least Krillith is convincing). You got a point but I am still against the gunship thing or they would have to get rid of the jedi starfighter.They are both quite strong UU and having two of them would unbalance the game. The A-Wing was not unbalancing the game 'cause it was weak and same with the probot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Beserks chew through buildings and mechs and do a fairly decent job against other things. Kryillth, the difference is that the airspeeder doesnt have to multitask. They dont have to perform two jobs at once. They dont replace fighters and have one purpose: to give the rebs a fast anti-mech unit because they have the worst mech destroyers in the game and would be killed by mechs every game without them. Prime example of gameplay>realism. The gunship is realism>gameplay and it is evident. It replaces strong republic units (trannie, fighter), has to perform both taks at once and and would be increbly hard to balance without it becoming a uber-unit or a useless unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted September 11, 2002 Author Share Posted September 11, 2002 Sithmaster - this isnt about replacing anything, it is about giving the republic a unique ability based on a unit. Luke - remember, this is for SW:GB2. If the gunship was to be included in the game, the gunship would be part of the original balancing. Back to the gunship, as i have said over and over again, there is really only one thing that must apply for a unit to be a unique unit, there must be no equivalent. There is no equivalent to the gunship. It's abilities include- -ability to carry troops -ability to provide covering fire and close support for those troops -only atmospheric flight -large crew to operate numerous weapons Now tell me, why should the gunshup not be a UU while units such as the Destroyer Droid are? Also, the gunship IS NOT A FIGHTER nor does it fit the requirements of a fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 CLOSE THIS THREAD!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 I'm not suggesting the gunship do the overall work of the fighters (gamewise we're talking about the gunship AA being pretty lousy so it would get chewed apart by fighters unless it outnumbers them, kind of like fighter vs. speeder). Against ground units, it might be as good as the fighter--decent against infantry and not so good vs. mechs/heavies. Nor am I suggesting that it completely replace the Republic air transports, since it wouldn't be designed to carry the heavy units. Personally I think the gunship would be helpful for dropping the Republic's excellent Jedi down while blasting bounty hunters, or just transporting the Republics fast output laser troops and advanced medics. Basically I see it as a supplimentary unit, which is primarily what UUs are meant to be anyway. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoL ShadowJedi Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 Windu mate, give me the specs of your unique unit (the gunship) and how you would balance it with the rest of the civs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W0RF Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 Windu your post makes no sense (big shocker ) First of all, if it's for your mythical GB2 then this entire thread is pointless anyway since they would use a much more current engine and could probably do a lot to alter all of the civs for more diversity. Second of all, WTF does atmospheric flight have to do with making the gunship a UU? The game engine already assumes that every single aircraft in the game is courteous enough to fly low enough that units on the ground can shoot at them. Not to mention, does that mean the Republic would not get the gunship on space maps, since asteroids don't have enough gravity to retain an atmosphere? (The response to this question is obvious even to me, but those of you who figure it out will also realize that the quality of "atmospheric flight" is still of no use whatsoever. What does the "large crew to operate numerous weapons" quality mean? What significance does that have? Is your gunship going to cost 5 units on the pop count? <brainless babbling>"Also, the gunship IS NOT A FIGHTER nor does it fit the requirements of a fighter"</brainless babbling> Yeah, it flies and it shoots at things. That is nothing like a fighter at all. Close this thread or feel the wrath of Vader. :atat: :atat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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