Sithmaster_821 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 5 minutes That long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Ah. You people are really quite harsh. But....... I can't deny it's funny. Uh... sith, simwiz, look up! er....... theoretically speaking. Scroll up the list of posts. You'll see many people pointing out how the gunship differs from both the fighter and the transport, and how it's not just a merger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 god i love a wings... i never used to use them until i saw them properly used by some near expert at this game in an 8 player game... talk about friggin effective! and will you people give up on the gunship already? The republic already had strong air, possibly the strongest troops based on their ability to produce them at such high speeds and the sight beyond sight, and the best jedi. people, learn the civ's strengths and then use them the way they should be used. and think reason... what are you gonna do? take this so called gunship, drop off a few troopers near an opponents CC, and get killed by their defense? or even be shot down before it lands? seriously, what purpose would it serve that a transport supported by fighters doesnt already serve? think reason people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Originally posted by pbguy1211 god i love a wings... i never used to use them until i saw them properly used by some near expert at this game in an 8 player game... talk about friggin effective! and will you people give up on the gunship already? The republic already had strong air, possibly the strongest troops based on their ability to produce them at such high speeds and the sight beyond sight, and the best jedi. people, learn the civ's strengths and then use them the way they should be used. and think reason... what are you gonna do? take this so called gunship, drop off a few troopers near an opponents CC, and get killed by their defense? or even be shot down before it lands? seriously, what purpose would it serve that a transport supported by fighters doesnt already serve? think reason people... Was it fast t4 and then A Wing flooding? Republic troopers are easily beaten by Wookies, Rebels, Confederacy, Gungans and GE if you count the Dark trooper as a trooper. Once you have all the other speed upgrades it makes very little difference and the faster rate of fire they get is preety poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadrixTF Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 The Dark Trooper couldn't be considered a trooper in the context of this game - they are a Fort unit and have much better attack, etc. Although, I do agree that the production speed of troops for Republic isn't much of an advantage once you reach T4 - and thats when they are produced at the highest speed anyway... Republics Air ability is the most effective assault in my pit droid opinion. Their Fighters are stronger than most civs fighters and you have the Jedi Stealthfighters as well, add a few Air Cruisers to that and then watch the destruction of your enemy fold before your eyes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 i dont think you can "fast t4"... at least i cant... i think you leave yourself way too open to attack if you try. but i have seen it done. but a wings are EXTREMELY effective at what they do and have won me many a game by their specialty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 20:07 is my record for fastet t4. But anyway it's a tactic a few people do. If you got good allies don't worry about booming of attacking in T3 just go straigh to T4 and A wings cost like 34 food and nova and out very fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Originally posted by Sithmaster_821 If LA is trying very hard to make the rebel air stronger and more diverse than the republics, WHY WOULD THEY GIVE THE REPUBLIC ANOTHER AIR UNIT? Ok, first of I just want to say that I'm interested in seeing the Gunship as a unit in a potential SWGB II. Since said game isn't out yet it's a bit hard to realistic argue about certain civs having too many units since we've no idea who would have what, whether units would be mostly generic or mostly unique or whatnot. As for SWGB 1, I'd be interested in seeing how it would affect the game, and if it works then I'd be interested in playing it, either as an additional unit or as a modified fighter (in which case I'd agree that it is the same as a figher ). Other than that, I don't really care whether it would make it into the current game. The point i was making about air-to-air was that fighters are anti-ground and anti-air, thus making the gunship a perfect canidate as a fighter. Windu, et al. have yet to give a substantial argument on what the hell the problem is with the gunship being a fighter other than "it can carry five troopers". SWGB is a game of representation, like most RST's. The gunships cargo would probably amount to about 1/4 a trooper. So if you want trooper peices marching around, be my guest. Also, just because certain units have certain abilities doesnt make them unique. The unit arts are grouped into general groups in order for generic units to work. TIE defenders had shields and could out run an A-wing, the naboo and rebels have aristemic(sp?) droids to repair their ships, the TF's droids are controled by droids, the gungans have frickin' ball shooting dinosaurs. The gunship isnt any different than any of those other fighters, SO WHY SHOULD IT BE UNIQUE? Do you consider the Air Cruiser, the Jedi Starfighter, the Air Speeder, or the A-wing fighters. They are all anti-ground and anti-air flying units, three of which are unique. Out of them all, the closest of them to a fighter would be the A-wing (in my opinion anyway) yet it's still a unique unit. Why? Because it's faster, weaker, has better range? All of these units have differences that separate them from the fighter, whether it's a matter of speed, range, special attack form (speeder vs. mech, for example), special abilities (like stealth or seeing stealth) but overall they are still anti-air and anti-ground flying units. What makes the gunship different from the fighter is not only the fact that it can carry units, but also the fact that it's different statistically. It doesn't have the same offensive strengths, it doesn't move as fast, it doesn't have shields, it has higher hps (closer to that of a transport), it is more resistant to ground AA units (also like the transport). We haven't even really discussed range or line of sight, but they may vary as well. If we're going to consider the previous units unique because of their statistical differences then why shouldn't we consider the gunship unique (or at least in a different class of ship if every civ in II had armed transports). Of course, if you do consider the aforementioned units fighters... Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 I still don't understand the big hard-on some of you have for the Gunship. It will never be in this game other than it's current form. EVER. As far as this thread topic... I don't think anyone ever posted this, the thread is titled: "A Republic Gunship we can all live with!" If "we" is the SWGB community, I consider myself part of that community, and someone spoke for me without being asked to speak. So sit down and shut up. I can live with it the way it is. And so can 99.99% of the people who play it. Just because 1 or 2 people have mega-wood for it, won't make it appear into the game. Get over it, and waste your time on more contructive things... Why did i post in this thread again??? Shoot me now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadrixTF Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Quote: " ... It will never be in this game other than it's current form..." pbguy, you seem to speaking about the Gunship as if it is in the game somewhere - if so, where is it? (toybox unit or cheat unit perhaps?) Or maybe you were just referring to it's imaginary form in this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Madrix, many people have been referring to the fact that the Republic Fighter (especially the Advanced Fighter) has the artwork and name of the Gunship. Put your mouse over the "build fighter" button, and it'll say "Advanced Gunship Fighter. This is clearly not doing due penance to the gunship, and is actually a rather stupid representation, made even more stupid by the fact that the Republic Bomber is "Gunship Bomber." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadrixTF Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Hey CorranSec, which country are you from - your timezone seems close to mine...? I see what you mean about the Gunship - i never noticed it before, because it's a generic unit and not unique... A Gunship Bomber - that is rather silly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 I'm in the wonderful land of Oz. I'm Todo, in case you were wondering....... Actually, I am in Australia, but I'm not a crazy dog. Hey..... uh........ you wouldn't be some kind of evil stalker person who's going to hunt me down and kill me now? It's evening now. But anyway, timezones can be completely different and people could still be on at the same time- one in the evening, one the next/previous morning, whatever. And some people are still awake at 1:00 am. Me in bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadrixTF Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 No, i'm not a crazy stalker - besides - i'm in South Africa so still far away... So, Australian is it then? I won't mention anything about Rugby then... We tend to get carried away about rugga in S.A. as i'm sure you boys do in Oz... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Er. Yes. *mimes typing on datapad* No-pay-out-S.A.-people-about-bad-rugby-players. So, how's the gunship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Originally posted by pbguy1211 I still don't understand the big hard-on some of you have for the Gunship. It will never be in this game other than it's current form. EVER. Like I said, I don't really care for having the Gunship IN THIS GAME. I'm interested in it possibly being in a potential SWGB II. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Kryllith is right. It seems to be pretty clear that the Gunship would be better represented in SW:GB 2, if it ever does exist. One of the suggestions I've made in the "Ideas for SW:GB 2" thread is that "Assault Transport" will be a generic ship class, and each civ will have a different one, allowing the Republic to have a Gunship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted October 4, 2002 Author Share Posted October 4, 2002 Assault ransport class - absolutely not The whole point of asking for the Gunship as a Republic UU is that it's unique!!!! Besides, creating a new class of aircraft would drag GB2 back down into the pits of generic unit sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 There has to be a vague bit of generic-ness in SW:GB 2. Everyone needs to have some kind of fighter, everyone needs a basic trooper, and so on. Everyone needs a transport, and according to movies and EU, everyone has an armed transport. OK. Here's the deal. The "assault transport" class may seem generic, but each civ will have greatly different ships. For example, one civ's might carry many men but be slow. One may be fast but have little armour. The Republic's may carry about 10 troop size units and have good weaponry and speed. Civs in games that profess to be unique do differ greatly, but there still are basic unit classes. In Warcraft III, each civ has a 'scout flier' and an 'assault flier.' For the Undead, there's gargoyles and big ugly dragonish things; (I have forgotten many names, it sucks I know.) for the Night Elves there's the Hippogryph and the Chimaera... and so on, and so on. The footman is basically the equal of the Grunt. As such, a Republic Gunship will differ greatly in stats to, say, an Imperial Lamda-class Shuttle, but they will both be armed transports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadrixTF Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 Originally posted by CorranSec Er. Yes. *mimes typing on datapad* No-pay-out-S.A.-people-about-bad-rugby-players. I think you lost me on that one??? As for the Gunship - NO! Assault Transports sound like a better idea though... but they can't be too powerful, otherwise their use in the game will be a bit clouded... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedi3112 Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Windu The whole point of asking for the Gunship as a Republic UU is that it's unique!!!! Imperial shuttles are armed and they carry troops so it's NOT unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 Ok, first of I just want to say that I'm interested in seeing the Gunship as a unit in a potential SWGB II. Since said game isn't out yet it's a bit hard to realistic argue about certain civs having too many units since we've no idea who would have what, whether units would be mostly generic or mostly unique or whatnot. As for SWGB 1, I'd be interested in seeing how it would affect the game, and if it works then I'd be interested in playing it, either as an additional unit or as a modified fighter (in which case I'd agree that it is the same as a figher ). Other than that, I don't really care whether it would make it into the current game If you want it in SWGB2, then it belongs on the "ideas for SWGB2" thread, so theres only one thread that i know not to click on ever, or else risk losing a tremendous amount of brain cells:D. That said, anything posted outside that thread is assumed to concern SWGB, and will be responded to likewise. Do you consider the Air Cruiser, the Jedi Starfighter, the Air Speeder, or the A-wing fighters. They are all anti-ground and anti-air flying units, three of which are unique. Out of them all, the closest of them to a fighter would be the A-wing (in my opinion anyway) yet it's still a unique unit. Why? Because it's faster, weaker, has better range? All of these units have differences that separate them from the fighter, whether it's a matter of speed, range, special attack form (speeder vs. mech, for example), special abilities (like stealth or seeing stealth) but overall they are still anti-air and anti-ground flying units. I dont know about you, but i find acs, jedi starfighters, and speeders are about as bad vs air as grenadiers are vs troops. The ac is a building/massed unit beater, the js an invaluable renconnaissnce asset and ac cleanser, and the speeder is a great scout and the best unit vs mechs. Very different from the anti air/trooper purpose of the fighter. As for awings, since ive posted this THREE TIMES already on this page, one of which ws part of your quotes, the awing was added for gameplay reasons (the rebs needed to enhance and differenciate their air force in light of the republic who had what they had but slightly better), not because some FORUMER DECIDED ONE DAY THAT IT WOULD BE COOL TO SEE AN AWING IN THE GAME!!! And even then it would be better than the current gunship crusade because the GUNSHIP IS ALREADY IN THE GAME!!! Civs in games that profess to be unique do differ greatly, but there still are basic unit classes. In Warcraft III, each civ has a 'scout flier' and an 'assault flier.' For the Undead, there's gargoyles and big ugly dragonish things; (I have forgotten many names, it sucks I know.) for the Night Elves there's the Hippogryph and the Chimaera... and so on, and so on. The footman is basically the equal of the Grunt. AoM does it similarly, most notably with the spearman/hoplite/ulfsark unit line. But past that it gets hazy. The anti-infantry infantry of the norse is ranged and the eygptians dont have conventional calvary. Game designers do this for ease of gameplay and for balance sake. Also, the assualt transport is as pointless froma gameplay>realism perspective as the gunship is, the only difference is that everyone get it so windu can no longer give every unit in the game to the republic. Speaking about windu, your turning into the broken record of circular logic that you became on your unique unit thread. [windu]the gunship should be a uu cause its unique. How is it unique? 'Cause it should be the republic uu[/windu] And the gunship bomber is yet another unit that LA amde up for gameplay's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoL ShadowJedi Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 dum de dum......cant some1 close this thread already......dum de dum oh yer, a great way how to get some fun is play a first person shoot em up and pretend each enemy soldier is Darth_Windu.....hehe....great fun i tell ya oh yer and one more thing! SAY NO TO GUNSHIP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 Originally posted by Sithmaster_821 If you want it in SWGB2, then it belongs on the "ideas for SWGB2" thread, so theres only one thread that i know not to click on ever, or else risk losing a tremendous amount of brain cells:D. That said, anything posted outside that thread is assumed to concern SWGB, and will be responded to likewise. I figured discussion of the gunship belonged in the gunship thread, whether for GB or GB II. I dont know about you, but i find acs, jedi starfighters, and speeders are about as bad vs air as grenadiers are vs troops. The ac is a building/massed unit beater, the js an invaluable renconnaissnce asset and ac cleanser, and the speeder is a great scout and the best unit vs mechs. Very different from the anti air/trooper purpose of the fighter. The gunship I'm envisioning would be just as weak against air as these other ships, which is why it should not be lumped in as a fighter substitute. As for awings, since ive posted this THREE TIMES already on this page, one of which ws part of your quotes, the awing was added for gameplay reasons (the rebs needed to enhance and differenciate their air force in light of the republic who had what they had but slightly better), not because some FORUMER DECIDED ONE DAY THAT IT WOULD BE COOL TO SEE AN AWING IN THE GAME!!! And even then it would be better than the current gunship crusade because the GUNSHIP IS ALREADY IN THE GAME!!! Don't knock me for typing this but do you have proof of this someplace? A press release from LucasArts (or maybe one of the videos they did on developing GB)? I've not seen anything official stating this (though I'm willing to accept that it's certainly possible and plausible). As for forumers wanting the a-wing, I'm fairly sure I remember a number of pre-cc posts where forumers asked for just that (I wanted an a-wing before CC revealed it was going to have one, though I never posted about it). As for the gunship already being the game, yeah it's in the game as a fighter. LucasArts probably wouldn't bother to have put the gunship in GB as a unique unit since they needed a fighter unit and why not just make the gunship that unit, since people will be familiar with it anyway. While they're at it, they made a "gunship bomber" so I guess the gunship is in there twice. It doesn't change the fact that they could have put in some other ship as the republic fighter (from concept art perhaps) and made the gunship a UU. Of course, then we'd have people complaining about the non-canon republic fighter... Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 When you think about it, a ball shooting pterydactital would be good against air, and it never would engage in space warfare. So why is it a fighter? Because it made sense. And the gunship was good vs air. Why do you want to fix something that isnt broken? Don't knock me for typing this but do you have proof of this someplace? A press release from LucasArts (or maybe one of the videos they did on developing GB)? I've not seen anything official stating this (though I'm willing to accept that it's certainly possible and plausible). As for forumers wanting the a-wing, I'm fairly sure I remember a number of pre-cc posts where forumers asked for just that (I wanted an a-wing before CC revealed it was going to have one, though I never posted about it). It was said in one of those pre-CC Garry Gaber interviews about the upcoming expansion. I think it was also mentioned in gamespots preview but im not a member so i cant check. The interview is not in the archives, but it was discussed in thatrebels/republic thread, epsecially the whole awing thing. Since both you and i posted in that thread, i dont hink i need to go and retrieve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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