Jedi_Monk Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 wow alot i have to correct there, first off dooku isnt 80, hes 400. Okay... I'm at a loss... where exactly did you dig up that fugure? I thought maybe it was some crap from the EU, but then I looked Dooku's EU history up in the http://www.starwars.com database and it distinctly says there that Dooku is 80 (actually, just to cover my bases, here's a direct quote: Dooku had studied the ways of the Force for almost eight decades... And since it's very rare for anyone over a certain age to join the Jedi Order (heck, Anakin, the CHOSEN ONE, was almost turned away because he was "too old" at the ripe old age of 9!), Dooku must be around 80 years old. Just because he was padawan to Yoda doesn't mean that he had lived nearly as long as his mentor. Dooku is only human, and there's very little canonical evidense that the Force really extends someone's lifespan that much (beyond helping them to avoid being shot up by blasters and dying prematurely). Yoda himself says that the Force cannot stop someone from dying... that he is strong in the Force, "but not that strong." Chalk Yoda's 900 years to the genetics of his diminutive species. secondly who said that the sith masters have to be overthrown? they age faster than most people do, they simply die when they get old. passing on the tradition, theres nothing about overthrowing your master and replacing him. Yet in the movies, we see two Sith Apprentices plotting to overthrow their Master (Dooku with Obi-Wan: "Join me, and together we will destroy the Sith!" and Vader with Luke "You can destroy the Emperor, he has foreseen it! Join me and we can rule the galaxy together as father and son!") and at least one instance of a Sith Master trying to cull off one of his Apprentices (Palpatine/Sidious with Vader... trying to see who was stronger, the father of the son, by pitting them in a battle to the death and then taking whoever survived as his apprentice: "Strike your father down and take his place at my side!" Avidence does point to all kinds of backstabbing and attempted overthrowings of Masters and Apprentices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Talliusc Posted July 18, 2002 Author Share Posted July 18, 2002 im not saying that dooku is 400 because he was yodas padawan, im saying it because thats what it says in the books. and as for the sith plotting against master stuff well: vader plotting with luke is obvious, vader isnt a very good sithlord (you know that because he makes them extinct) and he was really torn between the good and evil in him, as for the dooku with obiwan, well thats what weve been discussing and ive already stated my opinion on that, thats what this thread is all about (dooku is a good guy). oh and i almost forgot about where palpatine tells luke to kill vader, well that was because he knew he couldnt trust vader anymore, he saw vader offer to overthrow the emperor with luke, (its in the books, i forget where exactly) and just out of curiosity are you getting angry at me? i made this thread to have a good discussion/friendly arguement, if anybody's actually getting mad at me then id like to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-[MotU]-Lyger|=- Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 Dooku is bad, he's lame, old, stupid and ugly man how can that be good??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Talliusc Posted July 18, 2002 Author Share Posted July 18, 2002 you just descirbed (in my opinion) ep4,5,6, obiwan kenobi. but his prequel character was badass cool. edit: did i just say badass cool? ok now its definitely time for bed if im getting that lazy/stupid.confused... ah nutcrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediGhost[SITH] Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 Wait a second, Dooku uses a red saber and he fought the good guys... Enough said, he was evil. Plus he worked for Sidious. Come on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 im not saying that dooku is 400 because he was yodas padawan, im saying it because thats what it says in the books. What book? It says nothing about Dooku being 400 in the http://www.starwars.com database; quite the contrary it strongly indicates that his age is around eighty. I'd think something as remarkable as a 400-year-old human would be mentioned in the database. And back to the Sith Apprentice/Master backstabbing... what do we have to go by in the movies but the actions of Dooku, Vader and Palpatine? That's 3 of 4 movie Sith Lords betraying their Master or their Apprentice in some way or another... odds are good that these are not isolated occurances. The EU doesn't belong in this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 Ah Count Dooku, our only canon example of a "Dark Jedi" (other than Vader of course). Perhaps the first one too, if you consider that Maul was a pure Sith, and never a Jedi Knight... Though several Jedi are supposed to have left the order, we don't know what happened to them (non-film sources btw)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediGhost[SITH] Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 Yeah, look at Star Wars Galaxies for example. You have to become a Jedi in order to become a Dark Jedi (Sith). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanch Saode Posted July 19, 2002 Share Posted July 19, 2002 I don't understand why you think he is good...I don't get it!! There are so many arguments for he is a bad guy..... I don't wanna waste anymore time in this thread....for me it is meaningless...we obviously can't comvince you otherwise than what you have already told yourself...goodbye.....this is waste of my time, talking about wether Dooku is evil or not.....actually I have only one thing to say about that perspective.... LOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!! 'nuf said... I wont be checking this thread anymore.....so don't bother replying me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Joka'ar Posted July 19, 2002 Share Posted July 19, 2002 Count Dooku is a bad guy….. 1st. He tried to kill Senator Amildala Padme’.So u mean killing her made him a good guy? 2nd. He work with Darth Sidious and joined the dark side. If he is a good guy, why dunt he informed the Jedi where his Master is hiding and turn his Master in? 3rd. He keep on lying to Obi-Wan Kenobi about he hired Jango Fett.? 4th. He injured Obi-Wan during the duel and then he tries to kill him. 5th. He cut-off Anakin arm. If he really a good guys, instead cutting his arm, why dun he just injured Anakin like he did to Obi-Wan?Izzit Anakin was an easier opponent then Obi-Wan?Since Anakin is just a Padawan and Obi-Wan is a Jedi Knight for 10 years. and maybe he sensed that anakin was getting his strength back and decided that almost killing obiwan would convince everyone that he WAS evil, and then later he felt yoda's presence so he stopped, right when he was about to kill obiwan and anakin he just stopped. you notice that he could have killed obiwan and anakin VERY easily but instead he started talking to yoda, who was all of 30 feet away, not even yoda could have stopped dooku from killing them. but he didnt, HAH! He didnt killed Obi and Ani coz he was so confident on his Dark Force to destroy Yoda first.Did u see he was so confident on his new Dark Force,but he was wrong about it. Did you see the impression of CD( he was so shock then) when Yoda reflect the Dark Lightning back to CD? Then CD hand was trembling and fired another Dark Lightning. Then he realize that his Force wanst that strong and then he challenge Yoda with Lightsaber(confident with his Form II skills). 7th. He would have killed Obi & Ani during CD destroyed the pillar to crush Obi & Ani. What if Yoda couldn’t fast enough to hold the pillar with his Force? Count Dooku is a bad guy……….if u still insist he is a good guy, then I call Emperor Palpatine is the good guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Talliusc Posted July 19, 2002 Author Share Posted July 19, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Joka'ar Count Dooku is a bad guy?.. 1st. He tried to kill Senator Amildala Padme?.So u mean killing her made him a good guy? 2nd. He work with Darth Sidious and joined the dark side. If he is a good guy, why dunt he informed the Jedi where his Master is hiding and turn his Master in? 3rd. He keep on lying to Obi-Wan Kenobi about he hired Jango Fett.? 4th. He injured Obi-Wan during the duel and then he tries to kill him. 5th. He cut-off Anakin arm. If he really a good guys, instead cutting his arm, why dun he just injured Anakin like he did to Obi-Wan?Izzit Anakin was an easier opponent then Obi-Wan?Since Anakin is just a Padawan and Obi-Wan is a Jedi Knight for 10 years. Count Dooku is a bad guy???.if u still insist he is a good guy, then I call Emperor Palpatine is the good guy. ok number 1: we have no evidence that it was dooku that hired jango to kill padme, it could have been just the neimodians acting separately. 2: who said that dooku knows exactly where sidious is? i dont think he keeps a standard residence. 3: as for him lying to obiwan about jango, well didnt obi-wan do a little lying to luke later on? this seems like a lot more of a white lie then "he betrayed and murdered your father" but theres no doubt obiwan is a good guy. 4:i already explained this one, try reading the whole thread. 5:anakin was alot fiercer then obiwan, if you read the book of the movie (no its not EU, its the novelization of the movie) then you see that anakin has "strange powers" so thats why dooku had no choice but to take the opening anakin gave him and end the fight, its not like anakin would die without an arm. 6: strangely you didnt wright number six, you skipped right to number 7, and lets look at that, dooku knew that yoda had more power then he thought before (you said so yourself so dont argue that) he knew that yoda could stop a big tower from falling if dooku could push it over, and its been theorized by some that palpatine is a good guy and that in the later movies that is darth sidious not the original senator from naboo..... im not getting involved in that arguement though so dont start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Knight Posted July 19, 2002 Share Posted July 19, 2002 dude he is evil end of story your arhument is very weak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Talliusc Posted July 19, 2002 Author Share Posted July 19, 2002 i wish you could eliminate posts from your own thread (cough darth knight cough). if you dont like my ideas say that you want more proof, or better yet stop visiting this thread. dont say mean stuff just because you think otherwise, lets just get along a'right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teutonicknight Posted July 19, 2002 Share Posted July 19, 2002 Well I think carrying Death Star plans to your master, using force lighting on 3 ft tall people (Hey, pick on some one your own size!), ordering thousands of Battle Droids to kill 2 hundred jedi, and having a red saber is far than enough proff that Darth Tyrannus is evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icefox98 Posted July 19, 2002 Share Posted July 19, 2002 Okay, here goes. Dooku is cultured. Look at his story on http://www.starwars.com, it says he came from a very rich background *cough count cough*. He is honorable. Not wanting to kill the Jedi right away, saluting Yoda...etc etc. He is an honorable and cultered bad guy, that is why you *think* he's "nice." 'Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted July 19, 2002 Share Posted July 19, 2002 ok number 1: we have no evidence that it was dooku that hired jango to kill padme, it could have been just the neimodians acting separately. That was one of the stipulations for the Niemoidians joining Dooku's Sepratist movement... "I will not sign your treaty until I have Senator Amidala's head on my desk!" Also, Jango's obviously Dooku's lacky; he was hired by "a man called Tyrannus" to be the template for a clone army (obviously, he means Darth Tyrannus, who is Dooku) and he's acting as Dooku's bodyguard on Geonosis. That's all the evidence I need. 2: who said that dooku knows exactly where sidious is? i dont think he keeps a standard residence. If Dooku didn't know how to find Sidious, then how was it that he could go directly to Sidious after fleeing Geonosis? (no its not EU, its the novelization of the movie) Only the scripts and movies are not EU. Once again, your arguments are unconvincing and do not stand up to the facts. Dooku=bad guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Joka'ar Posted July 19, 2002 Share Posted July 19, 2002 Jedi_Monk has the point. Come on, In your title said "Dooku WAS a good guy" and yes Count Dooku is really a good guy. But in Episode II, he is no more Count Dooku, his identity is now Darth Tyranus, the dark jedi. The identity of Count Dooku is no more. Darth Vader is a bad guy in my perspective. During the day he killed Palpy, he was no more DV, but he is Ani. Anyway, Darth Talliusc, are u Darth Tyranus? What I really means is, are u Christopher Lee? So, u are tyring to protect yourself in Eps II HAH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythren Posted July 20, 2002 Share Posted July 20, 2002 Just to point out something from earlier: Palpatine did, in fact, know of Ani's existance in EP1, quite earlier than they actually met, I believe...perhaps even before he sent Maul, supposedly, to his death. There are many ways he could have done this; either intercepting a transmission (Qui-Gon's to Obiwan with Ani's midiclorian [sp?] count...I haven't watched EP1 in a while but I believe Maul was already on Tatooine), or, considering he has a great knack for the future-telling thing, he might have learned that way. Anyone else remember Palpatine turning to Ani at the end-celebration thing and saying something about "watching your career VERY closely"? _________ I might be wrong, but I thought I'd point out my thoughts. Also, Dooku was bad . Red Saber, fought with a good guy, tried to kill Obi and Ani, was cocky, got the smack laid down on him by a midget, had to push a pillar towards the midgets friends to escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Joka'ar Posted July 20, 2002 Share Posted July 20, 2002 "We will be watching your career in great interest" Palpy. Tyranus is evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mima kake Posted July 21, 2002 Share Posted July 21, 2002 I think he is a bad guy because he's played by mister C lee I mean he's an actor who almost only play badguy's (or at least is known for it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Joka'ar Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 2: who said that dooku knows exactly where sidious is? i dont think he keeps a standard residence. Darth Sidious was in Corrocsant all the way during TPM. Just inform the Jedi Order and then it will be settle the future war. Tyranus, bad guy. Dooku god guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Lando Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 Come on guys, even during the battle between Dooku and Yoda, Yoda said "The Dark Side I sense in you." Darth Tyranus betrayed and murdered Count Dooku. If you think he is a good guy then you will never become a true Jedi because he has decieved you and you have shown how easily persuaded to the dark side you are prone. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-GONE Jinn Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 ok number 1: we have no evidence that it was dooku that hired jango to kill padme, it could have been just the neimodians acting separately. Okay, we don't have PROOF that the sun will rise tomorrow either, now have we?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Joka'ar Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 Yeah, agree with Darth Lando.But the poster is no Jedi, he is a Sith/Dark Jedi. Well deceived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 I heard Dooku did alot of charity work. He also sang on the USA for Africa Album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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