munik Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 My point is that guns will not protect you, bullets can't deflect bullets. Therefore, having a gun makes it more dangerous for you (mugger points at you with gun, you point at mugger with gun, mugger gets panicced and shoots), and we can all agree that having a gun cannot protect you. This is a clear illustration of how un-informed you are concerning firearms. Law abiding citizens who have CCW licenses carry firearms for protection. Obviously, if the sole purpose of a firearm is to kill people, then it won't deflect bullets. They carry these weapons around as a safeguard against attackers. That means, when someone attacks them, they now have the means to kill said attacker. And to further address this erroneous statement, the only reason to point the business end of a firearm at another human is to kill them. So, in your example, if a mugger pulls a gun on you, he is gonna kill you. That is why you would pull out your firearm and kill him. Of course he will get panicked and shoot, he's about 2 seconds away from getting killed by you. Real life isn't like T.V. kids. Firearms aren't used as a threat, or a show of force. They are used to kill people. I've lived in this country (US) for some time, been to both coasts and a few places inbetween, and this place is far from having a gun problem. I can count on one hand all the illegal firearms I have ever seen, and never once had problem with someone attacking me with a firearm. Just because your friend went to Miami for vaction (WTF?) and got accosted by some cuban in a nightclub, that in no way has any relevance to a supposed gun problem in the states. I can say, with a %100 surety, that that person has carrying illegally, and probaly very weak with the weapon he chose. How would I know such a thing you may ask? Anyone who goes through the trouble, and hassle, of obtaining a CCW license has respect for the weapon they carry. Someone who pulls out a pistol, and uses it to threaten a man who was chatting up his girl has no respect for a firearm. Firearms are a last resort, only to be used when you must kill your enemy before he kills you (my rip of the Riflemans Creed ). Not as some stupid macho threat. Also, I don't go down the block to bars here in my home town and think everything is gonna be fine and dandy. People go out to bars, they drink alcohol, and fights and such are bound to happen. I go to bars knowing and expecting this to happen. Disregarding the retardness of vacationing in Miami, and the queerness of going to a nightclub there, your friend should have been expecting trouble. And apparently it found him. And he's not dead, so next time he might be a little more cautious before he tries to take something from another man. Because apparently he didn't realize how reality works. Munik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 If it was me or the mugger, of course, I'd pick ME! You make it sound like I pack a gun everywhere. I don't. I just have a rifle stored unloaded at my house. I don't live in a community where I need to carry a gun for protection. Heck, people don't even lock our cars around here. But that's a different issue. You're questioning the morality of shooting a mugger now, not the personal ownage of firearms. On that issue, if he threats me with deadly force I HAVE to assume he means it and I HAVE to respond for my own safety ether by shooting the bastard or by complying with his demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 Originally posted by munik This is a clear illustration of how un-informed you are concerning firearms. Law abiding citizens who have CCW licenses carry firearms for protection. Obviously, if the sole purpose of a firearm is to kill people, then it won't deflect bullets. They carry these weapons around as a safeguard against attackers. That means, when someone attacks them, they now have the means to kill said attacker. And to further address this erroneous statement, the only reason to point the business end of a firearm at another human is to kill them. So, in your example, if a mugger pulls a gun on you, he is gonna kill you. That is why you would pull out your firearm and kill him. Of course he will get panicked and shoot, he's about 2 seconds away from getting killed by you. Real life isn't like T.V. kids. Firearms aren't used as a threat, or a show of force. They are used to kill people. I've lived in this country (US) for some time, been to both coasts and a few places inbetween, and this place is far from having a gun problem. I can count on one hand all the illegal firearms I have ever seen, and never once had problem with someone attacking me with a firearm. Just because your friend went to Miami for vaction (WTF?) and got accosted by some cuban in a nightclub, that in no way has any relevance to a supposed gun problem in the states. I can say, with a %100 surety, that that person has carrying illegally, and probaly very weak with the weapon he chose. How would I know such a thing you may ask? Anyone who goes through the trouble, and hassle, of obtaining a CCW license has respect for the weapon they carry. Someone who pulls out a pistol, and uses it to threaten a man who was chatting up his girl has no respect for a firearm. Firearms are a last resort, only to be used when you must kill your enemy before he kills you (my rip of the Riflemans Creed ). Not as some stupid macho threat. Also, I don't go down the block to bars here in my home town and think everything is gonna be fine and dandy. People go out to bars, they drink alcohol, and fights and such are bound to happen. I go to bars knowing and expecting this to happen. Disregarding the retardness of vacationing in Miami, and the queerness of going to a nightclub there, your friend should have been expecting trouble. And apparently it found him. And he's not dead, so next time he might be a little more cautious before he tries to take something from another man. Because apparently he didn't realize how reality works. Munik over here we dont have to expect fights in pubs and clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 To the post two up, if someone threatens you with a firearm, they are gonna kill you. If you treat the situation any different then that, you will die regardless. And if someone carries a weapon around for protection, I think they are prepared to live with the fact that they killed a man. Not everyone in this world is a pansy. Yes, you can run away, that is an option. If someone pulls a knife, you can run away. If someone pulls a pistol on you, yes, you can also run away. You don't know anything about firearms either, do you? If you run away from someone who is threatening you with a pistol, and he manages to shoot and kill you, he just did the world a favor by cleansing the gene pool. Or you just happened to be getting mugged by the Worlds Best Marksman™. Munik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 Well, over here men go to clubs and pubs. Munik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 actually u deserve to get shot keep yer guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 Well, that would be tuff without a gun. No flames please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 that was aimed directly at munik not americans in particular btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 What part of "No flames please!" do you not understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 i take what munik was saying as a flame so dont have a go at me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 The source of the thing about 40 000 get shot and killed in US every year, wich makes it the worlds most likely place to be shot in peace time, I got from Guinness World Records (1999). That is truly a trustful source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 Well, according to the National Center for Health Stats it's more like 30,000 a year. That's total, not accident based. Plus, according to, here, gun deaths have been dropping sharply since 1993. And, here, it states there were 41,804 car fatalities each year in the US. Cars kill more people, should we ban cars as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 Originally posted by razorace Well, according to the National Center for Health Stats it's more like 30,000 a year. That's total, not accident based. Plus, according to, here, gun deaths have been dropping sharply since 1993. And, here, it states there were 41,804 car fatalities each year in the US. Cars kill more people, should we ban cars as well? The last 10 years gun deaths in US have been increased by 18 percent. Cars are used and meant to transport people from A to B. Guns are used and meant to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JandoFett1842 Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 Jez! Do you just not like Gunz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafia_Jabba Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 I would like to know the total number of murders in each country and not the total GUN murders and then we can talk which country is the most dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 Originally posted by JandoFett1842 Jez! Do you just not like Gunz? Do you????? Of course i don't like guns, they kill people. You might say that the bullets kill them, but the power to shoot the bullet comes from the gun, and it is that power that kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 The last 10 years gun deaths in US have been increased by 18 percent. Source? Of course i don't like guns, they kill people. You might say that the bullets kill them, but the power to shoot the bullet comes from the gun, and it is that power that kill. Not really, the gun is just a delivery system. The power of the gun is in the explosives stored in the bullet. You can replace the gun but not the bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 Still, the source is from Guinness world records (1999) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datheus Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 Gun control... will it make me more safe? Honestly, it depends on where I live I was watching an interview with Howard Dean... who I believe is running for President in 2004... he said something along the lines of this: I was talking with a man from Kentucky who told me "When you say control, it makes me think you want to take away the squirrel rifle my Father gave me when I was a kid" but when I talk to a man from New York they think that I mean I want to take the illegal uzis and hand guns off the street Getting rid of guns... it really matters where you live... if someone really wants to kill you, they will... Are you going to get rid of all slashing and bludgeoning weapons?... In general...no I don't believe it will make me safer... cause honestly.. it wasn't a problem where I used to live... there was about 2 murders every decade... I can only remember 2 in my life time, one wasn't even with a gun, it was a bomb from another state, and the other I believe was a stabing to death But here? Yes...I would think, if I lived closer to the city, that it would make me safer... but again, I live in the suburbs where crime isn't as bad as 20 minutes from here, where control of guns may actually help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedragon Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 no because we would use knifes instead and we cant force peace on human beings its just not posable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goten583 Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 I dont think its fair to say that the US is more dangerous than UK or any other european country. Regardless of whether its true or not. We have problems...so do you, unfortunatley. We cant dwell in relativism. It never gets anybody anywhere. The point is that we are working on it and as said in other posts, the rates of gun related deaths are dropping in the US, and that is true. Yes, that sounds sad but thats the things we must deal with by being Americans and I accept it. At this point I much rather have it the way it is now where my countries legislation on this issue is voted on by representives and our citizens. In many other european countries these things are decided by eliteists who make all the laws and the common man has very little say. Having yourself at risk, to me, by some idiot with a gun is a very small price for the kind of freedom I have as an American. Unfortunatley the elitests in this country want gun control, because they dont think we can handle our own lives and that we all need help, which isn't true at all. Like those elitests, I can see how europeans cant understand it cause they dont like the idea of commoners helping in making the decisions. Sure guns kill people, but a gun is a tool and has no will, intentions on the other hand can be punished, and are. If its not guns, its knives, if its not those, it's glass bottles......i could do that forever but you get the idea. It's not waepons, its people...its morals...and only punishing those criminals with a taste for violence can solve the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 so our voting in representatives is different from yours how?!!! we vote our representatives same as u yet ours are elitist (u like that word dont u ) thats just bonkers mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Warrior Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 I got one more thing to say:- The whole concept of taking another Human life is utterly disgusting, I'd rather die than live with the burden of having ended someones life. It's sick i tell you SICK!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 It is disgusting, but I'm willing to do it if it meant the safety of myself or my loved ones. You could choice to die if you want but you shouldn't interfere with other people right to fight for survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedragon Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 Originally posted by Jah Warrior It's sick i tell you SICK!!! yes i agree but if it was his life or someone you loved would you kill him. i would i wont let some ass hole get away just because i think its sick. the burden mite be heavy but you will have to remind yourself that you did it for a good cause Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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