munik Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 Jesus, wether or not you care, it still changes it. Two seconds or not. This happens during the first time that we see Han Solo in the movie. So, what do we learn of Han Solo when we first see him? That he's reluctant to take Obi and his crew with him, and that he murders bounty hunters that come after him for money he owes Jabba. That's called character development. This is how you are meant to percieve Solo, your first impressions of him. Of course, the whole of the story is really unchanged. Greedo gets killed there either way. But the act of murdering a debt collector because you disagree is seen as a barbaric act. It's a quick way to show the audience what Solo is all about. Then, as the trilogy progresses, you get to see Solo and his redemption, rising above the life of a mere smuggler who only helps himself, to helping the rebellion overthrow the empire. Now, if you take out the part where Solo is a somewhat shady character, you lose that whole bad to good thing. And the story, concerning Han Solo, has been changed. Oh, and Greedo didn't meet with Solo to kill him, he was trying to get Jabba's money. Or some sort of payment. I think Jabba might have had him kill Solo if he couldn't get the money, but I find that hard to believe. Because, if someone owes you money, and you kill them.....well, you don't get the money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebelwerfer_ Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 The difference is, in the original, Han murdered Greedo. In the SE he killed Greedo in self defence. That is a huge difference in the character development. last time I checked, shooting someone who has you at gunpoint isn't murder. It was still self defence even in the original, greedo even told Han he was gonna die. The fact that greedo shoots first in the SE doesn't change anything, it just looks more stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 I have to watch the movie again b/c I didnt see greedo shoot at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebelwerfer_ Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 how could you not see it? make sure this time you put "ANH SPECIAL EDITION" in your vcr cause I dont know what the hell you were watching but if you couldn't see greedo shoot, then it wasn't the movie we're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 Han Solo was never really bothered with Greedo. He brushed him off with excuses two times before the confrontation in the cantina. Greedo was young and new to bounty hunting. And he was frustrated with the fact that he couldn't get Solo to take him seriously, let alone pay up. So Solo killed him, an easy solution to stop Greedo from pestering him. I doubt that Solo took any of Greedo's threats seriously, as he dismissed offhandedly twice before. Greedo shooting first did change something, or else it wouldn't have been put in the SE. And I doubt it was to make it look more stupid. Killing someone who you do not percieve as a threat, and just to stop them from hasseling you further, is murder to me. The last time you checked, you didn't check with me. So don't give me some offhand remark contradicting my belief. Maybe you could give me source for the 'last time you checked'. I'd also like to know how I too can 'check' on my own views of morality. That way, the next time I post my opinion, I won't have you come and tell me that my beliefs are wrong. I strive to be right in your eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebelwerfer_ Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 oh here we go, another EU die hard ranting on and on about how he knows about greedo's past. Listen, I dont take into account greedo's EU situation. This is not an issue of morality, so don't make it one. It's an issue of canon, and until you realize that we cant bring up the EU while arguing about the movies, then we will never settle this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EffJi Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 I think the whole anti-racism thing in ep1 was the worst think lucas ever did. What I mean is: The nabooians thinking they are soo much better than the gungans, then realise Hey!! they're not so bad after all. Just think about it: Ep1 without the gungans A real ep2 style ground battle (both sides have blasters). No kid talking. No jarjar binks. Maybe even some jedis that help the naboo during the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 You assume everything. First telling me what I believe, now labeling me EU die hard. Alright, not refering to EU then. But the only reference I made to it was "two times before" and "twice before". Take them out and the rest is still what I believe from watching the movie. Those two lines hardly changed my post. I believe that Solo didn't take Greedo seriously. From watching the movie, I believe that Solo was giving Greedo excuses. I didn't try and make this an issue about morality, I simply used that word as a synonym. When you said mine was wrong. Also, I was unaware that this was an issue of cannon. Maybe you could elaborate. My post concerning this matter, and my issue, is that I feel it changes the way Han Solo is percieved, and thus changing the character development. As is what I've said in my prior posts, I've just been elaborating why I think so. I'm pretty sure that we aren't ...arguing about the movies... and this isn't ...an issue of canon... It's simply me posting wether I think it was a good idea to change it to Greedo shooting first, the reasons I think it wasn't, and then you telling me that my belief is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebelwerfer_ Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 if you bring up EU stuff on greedo on and solo's past, then i'll "assume" you read the EU. tell me this, where did you read all that stuff about greedo? cause I didnt see it in the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 I meant the assume part when you said this ...EU die hard ranting on and on about how he knows about greedo's past... Different then just 'reading the EU' Anyways, the stuff I said about the two times before I got from here. Doing a web search hardly warrants the above quoted material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCanr2d2 Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Never seen it, but Howard The Duck would have to easily be his worst work ever, and from everything you hear would make everything in Star Wars pure gold............ Hang on, isn't it any way.. The difference between shooting second or first shows a totally different characteristic of Han Solo. To shot first, is to take things into his own hands, be in control of his destiny, to let someone take the shot first shows that Han isn't as carefree as we are made to believe, that he isn't that good of a smuggler, since he doesn't have a quick draw. The original ANH shows more of the stupidity of Greedo, his arrogance, to ignore the signs of where Hans hands were, that Han was too quick and smart for him. Now it makes it look like no matter how much time Han has to get that gun out to shoot, he still doesn't get it off first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivy Posted August 12, 2002 Author Share Posted August 12, 2002 I liked Howard the Duck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 I think it was cooler when Han blasted him away in the first edition of the movie. It added a certain element of danger to Han's Character, IMO However I can still think of worse. Sad as it may seem Lucas was responsible for Howard the Duck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Why have everyone a problem with Jar-Jar?? If you, don't like him, just ignore him, damit, is it really that hard?? So what if the gungans talk a little strange! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Groovy Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn Why have everyone a problem with Jar-Jar?? If you, don't like him, just ignore him, damit, is it really that hard?? So what if the gungans talk a little strange! I know right? And nobody ever makes fun of the Jawas? And then there is the Ewoks.........man don't get me started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murdoch Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 'just ignore him'.. hehe.. hehe Don't you get it? He is unignorable! After i watched TPM for the first time i found Jar-Jar had crawled under my skin into my brain and firmly etched himself into my cortex. He is fail. He is the supreme mistake. He warrants inventing time travel to prevent GL from including him. On a slightly more serious note i actually think GLs worst mistake was waaaay too much computer animation. These latest two movies.. frankly they're just too messy. There's hardly ever any real focus for the eye imo. There are notable exceptions of course that look very good(maul saber fight, Jango fett asteroid chase) but generally i think he could've used a real set in many scenes. Maybe we could've had some acting then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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