What ways could LA make an original RTS?

[RollingFelony]

I had a few other ideas for new features....

Yes I wouldnt waste a lot of time of making a completely new engine.....we will leave that to the fellas who brought us quake(in that everyone else uses thier Q3 engine to make FPS) I think the "Quake 3" engine of RTS will come from Age of Mythology or RoN.

Please be constuctive to all ideas and realize this is brainstorming.

 

Multiple Planets. Much like Seas between continents in Age of Empires, be able to transport between like 3 or so planets....this may be hard to describe how it is invisioned so be patient and build onto my ideas, or tell me why it may not work. I think it is a very authentic idea for starwars.

Lets say for example....each person starts on their own planet. There is a land map....then a space map that is seperate. One could make ANY kind of ship then. Of course it would have to be balanced for all races somehow. You could blockade an opponents planet with capitol Ships (which would be astronomically expensive) You could have certain buildings in space and the fighters could orbit, patrol or bunker. Of course the Empire would need TIE transportation as they are short range fighters. Transports would work similar and you could invade the other planet. and build on it, exc. There is a communications building to communicate to allies on other planets otherwise no communications, even with presence on another planet....there would be a tec to intercept communication(in MP that is fairly expensive much like spies in AOE2) and you have to explore the space map just like the land to find other planets....hyperdrive must be researched to get off your planet and to achieve presence in space, of course the # of planets would be limited for the length of the games sake. Invasions would be fun and exciting. To defeat your opponent in Space and then start sending in your ground army. The fighters would be more balanced and could not attack villagers (and the speeders would be researched on the planet as they are for surface attacks) You could switch between both maps and you would have a mini of both maps that could be toggled on and off. Anti air would work the same, and there would have to be a way to destroy capitol ships....we could think of capitol ships as a fortress in the sky the same as forts of SWGB with units you can train there exc. Maybe the population limit would be different to accomadate multiple planets, and you would still be able to do classic One planet skirmishes, and also only economy on the ground, and all air fighting untill one competitors planet is blockaded(they could call it blockade) in skirmish/MP mode. I could go on and on but the strategy would be fun and you could have asteroids exc that destroy fighters....and the more upgraded the fighter computers are the less fighters get taken out by asteroids. I could go on and on with the possibilities and this "rough draft" idea could make SWGB truely Star Wars.....its galactic battlegrounds not Planetary battlegrounds. I think LA could pull it off. and I would buy a super beefy comp to accomodate a great game! Peace!

RollingFelony

[simwiz2]

Originally posted by Darth Windu

Of course simwiz is given the opportunity to add a constructive post, but no, he has to attack other member's idea's. The whole thing about micromanagement is that there is too much research to do, there is no research queue, and there is only a '15' unit queue, all of which lead me to the conclusion there is too much micromanagement. Fortunately it can be corrected easily.

 

I was not attacking "idea's", I was attacking your whining post that clearly showed your stupidity. I get tired of seeing these whining "it's too complicated, merge the civs, merge the units, take out econ, make it a clickfest, give me a super-unit, give me a super-civ, research is too hard, etc". You post whines in almost every thread. This game is NOT too complicated unless you have the intelligence of a shovel. You just need to learn how to play. The queues are small details that yes, it would be nice to see them improved, but this game is far from having horrible micromanagement. It just isn't designed for 2-year olds.

[RollingFelony]

Micromanagement is only at the beginning of the game. Later on when you get the recources you can queue up your farms....you can even queue up 5 farms at once by holding shift and then selecting the queue button. This can also be done at the military buildings and any unit for that matter. 15 is plenty to queue up in one building. If you have 4 troop centers and 15 in each that is 60 troops....usually its 100 war units and 100 different kinds of recource collectors.

The villagers are only as smart as you make them since you are in command of them, they are only as fast as you let them be. If anything needs to be corrected it is the use of shields!!!!!!!!! It is cool to have them but man, balance them some!

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Anyway, thi is is the game engine to use. Add shields and Jedi and here u go.

[Admiral Odin]

RollingFelony: 1 problem I see with your idea is the minimap, you would need 2 of them, which may get confusing. However to solve this you can have the minmap automatically switch depending upon which if your in space, or a planet (and which planet your on).

 

Working off your idea:

 

1. Scale, have 2 different scales, 1 the space protion and 1 for the ground portion. This way, Capital ships won't be to large. Figthers, shuttles and anything else would need to models obviously to show the different scales. (Larger one for ground and a smaller one for space)

 

2. The ability to capture enemy ships whether from boarding an enemy ships with an assualt vessel or making it derelict.

 

3. Ground to Space Weapons, Building an Ion Canon for instance, or planetary shield.

 

4. If you use my economy idea, (with supply shuttles), you could then ambush them from space.

 

5. For eye candy, if a large battle happens above a planet, and then you go down to the ground of that planet: The player sees some debri fallind.

[RollingFelony]

One thing maybe I didnt make clear was that the Air units are primarily in space and only can garrison on land (Ie Yavin 4 in EP 4) They can also be repaired when garrisoned but at the expense of recources and the speed of the repair relies on a certain tech. The capitol ships would remain in space, and be built similar to the way a fortress is built in SWGB only it is mobile but very slow. The only thing that would need scaling is the size of fighters compared to capitol ships, but we all know that scaling is not true to form in RTS games anyways. It would be similar to the way Sea battles work, but only in space. Each planet would be visible on the space map, depending on what has been explored.

[lukeiamyourdad]

To Rolling Felony

 

I like your ideas but I have one question: How long it will take us to win? It's just I don't want to spend a day before my computer. But still you have great ideas!

[Admiral Odin]

Well It would most likely depend upon the map: Simple maps can hold only enough planets for players. You could have objectives, like take the centeral planet. ect.

 

 

While scalling doesn't have to be exact, I still would hate to see an x-wing as large as a Star Destoryer. Also with 3d engiens it is feasible to scale the units to more appropiate sizes. Especially if a zoom function is included. Scalling ships would also have to be done for any ship that can enter a planet's atmosphere. Like shuttles, and figthers.

 

Being able to dock with the Starships would also be nice. Not just having a SD have a few fighters but also able to carry shuttles, ect. Would make for better invasions.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I know that admiral, what i meant is how much time it will take you to build that invasion force? And I think if they put planets they should really limit the maps to double the number of players. I don't want to be chasing my enemies everywhere before I can blockade their last occupied planet.

[KoL ShadowJedi]

nice ideas mate, if only LA wud listen to our pleas

 

all this space and stuff would make a great senate map

[KoL ShadowJedi]

surely it is not "that hard" to make a game, i mean if all us SWGBers got together and stuff we'd make it in 5 months lol

dont take me to seriously but come on

[Crazy_dog no.3]

What about a Rebellion meets RON game. Maybe I will post a thread about it.

 

 

BTW I am not saying GB is a bad game I just think it is a major step to better SW RTS's.

[lukeiamyourdad]

How can we send ideas to LA?

 

I like Rebellion meets RON! Well not on the same unusually large map...

[Admiral Odin]

They sometimes read the forums. Or you could try to email them.

[MadrixTF]

Personally, i would like to see what type of engine Total Annihilation 2 will use when it comes out- if it is as revolutionary as the first one it could be a nice benchmark for future strategy games like GB2, etc. I think that the variation in Civs could be better in terms of each civ has a preferred or unique attack strategy - it could keep players guessing...

[Sithmaster_821]

How about lucasarts being creative and using their own engine with unique unit sets, etc. RoN is probably the last engine i would use.

Having said that i do like the idea of no houses, moral, surrendering etc. The game needs to 'flow' a lot better than it does at the moment as well.

I find researc more STRATEGICALLY ENHANCING and REALISTIC the moral or any of that other crap. Houses are guards against building an army too quickly, thus reducing the fun fatcor. If you want a game that lasts a week and then gets boring continue right along with your ideas.

Or AoM when it comes out.

AoM has less micro than this game.

[Admiral Vostok]

Admiral, I love your supply line idea! I think that's the biggest thing holding back RTS at the moment, just about every one you have to mine resources. In reality, if an army sets up a base during a war, they don't send out workers to mine and farm the local area so they can build up troops. I think your example with the stormtrooper is great. I also think instead of building mechs on site, they should be transported in, like how in some of the Westwood games you can order in some tanks and they get delivered.

 

Here's my ideas combined with other ideas already suggested to make a totally original game (to my knowledge... maybe it has already been done?) :

 

You start with a command center, a few droids and a scout, just like now. The droids can build buildings for you. However, you can't build any more droids, if they are killed new droids will be delivered to you from the main fleet (see more further down).

 

A mess hall (or something similar) that supplies enough food for, say twenty guys. These would replace houses. Instead of the Trade Federation not having one, theirs should be a Droid Control Core.

 

Barracks lets you make people. You can build a trooper, a pilot or an officer. They all cost the one food ration, provided by the mess hall.

 

Troopers start with only a blaster pistol and no armour. You need to build an armoury to issue them with a rifle and armour, then from there you can upgrade weapons and armour. If the armoury is destroyed, troops keep their equipment but any newly commissioned troopers will just have their blaster pistols.

 

Pilots need to be trained in either flight training or mech training. Training can only be carried out if there is a training facility. If not, untrained pilots can still drive vehicles, but they are appalling bad at doing so. They are assigned either a starship or a mech (of which more later). Assault mechs require two pilots. If a mech or starship is destroyed, the pilot always escapes, but will probably get killed by enemy forces. Otherwise they are rescuable, and their experience will make them a better pilot. However, not everything is piloted by a pilot: scouts and mounted troopers operate in the same way as piloted vehicles but are only used by troopers (who need no training).

 

Officers have weak combat ability but are needed to command your force. They can either stay at the base or ride in a mech. They could provide morale or something which makes units in their vicinity fight better.

 

There is no limit to the number of mechs and starships you can build, although they cost money. The limiting factor is the number of pilots you have available. Unmanned starships and mechs obviously can't move. This way, you could have some in hangars for reserve when a pilot comes running home from his destroyed vehicle.

 

So far the buildings available are: A command centre, which I think should operate like a fortress, a barracks for building people, a mess hall to supply food, an armoury to provide armour, a training centre to train pilots, and probably some turrets. The next building is a starport, from where you contact the main fleet. The main fleet delivers requested mechs and starships in a transport. The route the transport travels must be free of enemies, or else the transport waits in orbit. Basically, as long as there are no enemies in the base they are free to deliver.

 

Now resources: I think instead of mining resources, money should be given on the basis of your military abilities. If a commander is doing poorly with what he's got, the main fleet isn't going to give him any more stuff. So, you get credits to spend on starships, mechs and buildings according to what percent of the map is in your control. For example, if you control 50% of the map, you get 50 credits a second or something. If you control 75%, you get 75 credits a second. You should get bonuses for holding specific landmarks, like Royal Palace of a planet, or a field of resources that could potentially be mined if you win the war. Of course there is a debate that the less you control, the more the main fleet will want to help your war effort, so it could work the other way around as well. I also think the number of officers you have contributes to the credits, because they'll be limited by the population cap. So if you have heaps of officers, the credits they supply will go to waste as you won't be able to build enough combat units to use the equipment you can buy.

 

Well it's long, but what do you think? Please no flames, they're becoming far to common on these boards. There are probably a few problems with my ideas, so point them out by all means.

[simwiz2]

Originally posted by Sithmaster_821

How about lucasarts being creative and using their own engine with unique unit sets, etc. RoN is probably the last engine i would use.

 

I'm all for them creating their own engine also, but RoN would fit the SW universe a lot better than AoK, AoM, and many other engines. If they insist on using an already made engine RoN would be the best one IMO.

 

AoM has less micro than this game.

 

It has less economy micro. It has more micro in combat due to Myth Units and God Powers. It's not really too much of a clickfest, but it is definately less economy than AoK. Which is good to an extent, but if overdone it makes the game oversimplistic and boring. At least they still have a lot of technologies to research.

[simwiz2]

Originally posted by Admiral Vostok

Now resources: I think instead of mining resources, money should be given on the basis of your military abilities. If a commander is doing poorly with what he's got, the main fleet isn't going to give him any more stuff. So, you get credits to spend on starships, mechs and buildings according to what percent of the map is in your control. For example, if you control 50% of the map, you get 50 credits a second or something. If you control 75%, you get 75 credits a second. You should get bonuses for holding specific landmarks, like Royal Palace of a planet, or a field of resources that could potentially be mined if you win the war. Of course there is a debate that the less you control, the more the main fleet will want to help your war effort, so it could work the other way around as well. I also think the number of officers you have contributes to the credits, because they'll be limited by the population cap. So if you have heaps of officers, the credits they supply will go to waste as you won't be able to build enough combat units to use the equipment you can buy.

 

If this was done in addition to the current worker economy it could work as an added incentive to expand over more of the map, rather than just a small base and a small forward base. There would need to be a method to determine who controls what % of the map.

 

If your idea replaced economy completely, the game would become way too simple. It would be: get workers, plop buildings everywhere and pump out units.

[Admiral Vostok]

If your idea replaced economy completely, the game would become way too simple. It would be: get workers, plop buildings everywhere and pump out units.

 

I agree. However, I propose a move away from workers mining resources. It just doesn't happen in the real world. I agree we need a better system than I've proposed, but I think the only way Lucasarts can make a really unique game is to NOT have workers mining resources. They all have it, so a game without it would truly be different.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I think why they have workers mining ressources is exactly because they wanted a game not based around wars only and give it a little gestion part. We never she this in an Rts and it would be nice to see one (divided into an economy and war mode). Besides, in some maps or scenarios the main idea is to build a colony or a city so it is ok i guess. But i don't want them to get rid of economy.

[Admiral Vostok]

I guess the thing that would make me accept resources more is if they were actually based on stuff we see in the movies. Also, and this is especially relevant to SWGB who just inherited the resource types from AOK, the resource cost has to have more to do with the unit you're getting. For example, this seems silly to me:

"Okay, lets cut down that tree over there for carbon, and chop up some of that bizarre green crystal over there. We'll then use those two things to build a bounty hunter."

 

So, here's another suggestion from me:

Workers still mine resources, however I think it should be a bit like the Westwood resource system: mine resources that are renewed over time, and all types of resources contribute to a single stockpile of money to spend. This would overcome the problem that bizarre resources buy things. Instead, the resources give you money with which to buy things. I think you should be able to stockpile resources, then sell them for money, and the amount you receive fluctuates like the stockmarket. So a good micromanager waits until the market is high and sells their stuff.

Now the resources: they should mostly be based on stuff we know is mined in the Star Wars galaxy. This could include Tibanna Gas, Naboo Core Plasma and Spice (remember, not all spice is illegal). Also we could have things like metal ore, which would be a common resource on Geonosis, for example. I think it is important that the resources renew because one thing I don't like about SWGB is that in long games you can harvest every single resource on the map, which is totally unrealistic in a war zone. Anyway, you stockpile Tibanna Gas, for example, then sell it when the price offered at the spaceport is good. I suppose food could be gathered, but only to sell as I'm sure Star Wars armies have packaged supplies that last a long time before you have to resort to eating mynocks.

 

The biggest problem I can see with this is that you can't get any money until you have a spaceport to trade from, so maybe the spoaceport equivalent should be the building you begin with?

[tanka]

like somebody said before the planes should be like the ones in empire earth. they should have to be stored in hangars and brought out for use, or you could garrison them in capitol ships.

 

has anybody here played the empire earth: art of conquest beta? if you have i think the space games should be played like that, you build docks and you have giant ships that blow the **** out of eachother sort of like a naval battle, but in space.

some of you guys though, you sound like you think you are making the game yourselves.

[Admiral Vostok]

some of you guys though, you sound like you think you are making the game yourselves.

 

LOL, yeah I wish I was! Since I first posted on this thread I haven't stopped thinking about how to make a really cool Star Wars RTS. Oh well, Lucasarts will just have to do it without me...

[Crazy_dog no.3]

1) Bounty Hunters are not built, they're hired . Otherwise they won't be Bounty Hunters. Think of Nova as gold, which is used for few things but can be sold for lots of money. This money is used to hire them. Carbon makes sence. In real life, carbon is used for many things. In this game, it would be very realistic, bieng used to make extra armor and ammo.

2) Naboo Plasma is a Naboo-unique resource. U cannot mine Naboo-Plasma on Geonosis.

Tibanna Gas is found mostly on giants like Bespin and Ord Ibanna. U mine Tibanna gas on Yavin.

Spice, is found on worlds like Kessel. It's not very likely u find spice on Sullust.

Resources have to be more generic.