What ways could LA make an original RTS?

[RollingFelony]

All this talk about which 3d engine will SWGB use when they make another RTS? It makes my heart sink to think that LA would just follow suit of another company. The George Lucas I know does things nobody else has ever done before in all SW movies. Fully digital Ep2, wether you like it or not....Jar Jar, fully animated Yoda(which looks younger than the Ep 1 yoda...not to gripe:))

 

My point is it should be the first of its kind modeled to the opinons of the SWGB community....do what the majority of Players want who purchased the first SWGB and made it somewhat successful.

Some of my concepts were things like the ability to train pilots at the "Airbase" that garrison in various fighters and upgrade the fighter when they are in it. Also the pilots would be upgradeable in thier ability.

3D of course and I wouldnt complain if they used another engine but dont make the gameplay exactly the same (Ie food, wood, gold, stone) Make a unique new economy system.

More Civilizations....even invented ones....audience gasps......yes invented and approved by lucas's "authenticity" The warfare in the Air could be much more complex....since when does an x wing attack a trooper? Not complaining though just an obsevation. I love SWGB:CC it is a fun game. But the next one...and there will be a next one! Needs originality. The best way to achieve originality is take the advice of the people who actually play the game and use their imput..... I am a firm believer that you have to be careful in making a game so complex it sucks bad, and Keep it simple stupid is always good....but to copy AOM would be cowardly....but if that meant it would turn out like force commander.....forget it!

[AnakinSWG]

I agree and wouldn't mind the wait. Also a timeline for the scenario editor (staring from the Sith War and going thought event to the current serries, most likely not the NJO) NO DEBATE PLEASE! that will show the terrian changing over time (larger/smaller rocks) maybe have it be 2 disc like one for the editor with lots of new stuff.

 

 

 

Dream On; LucasArts doesn't like to keep the community waiting, I think

[AnakinSWG]

they will must likely use a game engine all ready out

[Admiral Vostok]

I hope if they do use an existing engine they alter it a lot more than they did for Galactic Battlegrounds. Don't get me wrong, it's my favourite game (why else would I be here), but there's just too many things they carried over from Age of Empires II that don't have much of a place in Star Wars.

 

Not only did they keep cannons (trebuchets) and pummels (battering rams) but they even kept some technologies that are only in the game because they had an equivalent tech in AOE2, like the one which gives workers a bonus against buildings.

 

However, there are some things from AOE2 that they didn't keep which I think they should have. Mostly, the fact that everyone has access to every unit, even if they can't upgrade. In AOE2, some civs couldn't get gunpowder units, and the New World civs couldn't get gunpowder OR cavalry. This would have translated well to SWGB. For example, the Gungans not having air units, or the Naboo not having heavy weapons. This would have made the civs considerably weaker, but more "realistic". The one quote from the movies I remember most when playing SWGB is Captain Panaka's line "We have no army". Totally not what we see in the game.

 

That's just my opinion on the recycling engines debate.

[Admiral Vostok]

Anyway, to the topic at hand.

 

I think its impossible to make a truly original RTS anymore. Pretty much everything has been done. But here are some ideas I've had or stuff I've seen in other RTS engines that I think would be perfect for a Star Wars RTS.

 

Firstly, they should only include units that we've seen at least one army have in the movies. This would mean no cannons, no pummels, no air cruisers, no grenade troopers. There are other units that we don't see any of, like the cargo hovercraft, the anti-air trooper, and pretty much all of the boats, but these are necessary in most cases.

 

Perhaps give the Jedi units more special powers, such as Force push or something. I also think all Jedi units should heal automatically like the Jedi Masters, but Sith shouldn't. Make Sith slightly tougher as a balance.

 

For air units, use a similar approach to Empire Earth (this is the engine I've had the most experience with recently). The air units are constantly moving, so their bombing runs and dogfights look a lot better. Also, if you don't want them flying around all the time they can garrison at the airbase, and you give orders to the different classes of air unit. This is sort of similar to the fighter planes in Red Alert 2, for those who have played, except you can leave the planes flying around, and bombers carry a bigger payload than one missile.

 

Another Empire Earth feature: the zoom in function. You can scroll down to the view of a trooper, and watch and command your forces that way. This would be fantastic for Star Wars, as the battles in the movies are nearly always viewed from a human perspective. If this is the only feature a new Star Wars RTS has, I'll buy it.

 

I like the idea of training pilots who then run to their fighters when told to. However, I'd have to say NO MORE CIVS! Only the ones we actually see in the movies, if anything get rid of Wookiees.

 

Here's somthing I haven't seen before: trenches. Just like in the Battle of Hoth. You could "garrison" troops inside, and it provides some (but not complete) protection. It's also a barrier to smaller units that can't physically get over, but not to things like assault mechs.

 

I think anti-air turrets should fire lasers, like the turbolaser on the Death Star and on the Trade Federation War Freighters.

 

Capital Ships. Maybe a maximum of one per hundred population or something, so you can't get a whole heap of them. You can garrison fighters and bombers inside. At least half the civs have them in the movies, and those that don't will probably need some sort of compensation (not a made up one). A Gungan capital ship would just be stupid. You've got Star Destroyer for Empire, Mon Calamari Cruisers for the Rebels, War Freighters for the Trade Federation, and the Republic Assault Ship for the Republic.

[eizo131]

If I am correct we were talking about game engines so I think RoN ( Rise of Nations) would be a good game engine, but since we talking about other things their SHOULD be new civis. ( no comments ) And the capitol ships are a good idea.

P.S. do the titles above your avatar mean something?

[General Nilaar]

Why does everyone want to see a Star Destroyer? I don't remember seeing any Star Destroyers in the Battle of Hoth. They're too large in scale for use in the game, and from a universe perspective they are too large to go into a planets atmosphere.

 

As for made up civs, well we only have one more movie to go. Then there will never be anything new that's "offical" again. In other words things are about to get real static and boring in the Star Wars universe of games if you just follow the movies.

 

I don't see what's wrong with a Wookie civ. We know they're technologically advanced. What's wrong with having some fun and seeing what they can do? It's certainly more fun than using an ewok civ.

 

Zoom-in function? Why? It's useless and only creates more lag time in multi-player games. Not everyone out there has broadband modems. Why should LucasArts restrict the game only to those who do? And let's not forget what a movable camera did to Force Commander.

 

Now trenches and air units that can strafe, those are good ideas:)

[Darth Windu]

With all due respect, trenches are not a good idea. If you jumped into a trench in WW2 (which is like star wars in fighting) during a battle, you're dead because you're a sitting duck. Infantry going into the prone position would be much better.

[Tyrion]

Originally posted by Darth Windu

With all due respect, trenches are not a good idea. If you jumped into a trench in WW2 (which is like star wars in fighting) during a battle, you're dead because you're a sitting duck. Infantry going into the prone position would be much better.

 

But grenaders would do MUCH better in trenches,as ranged direct fire troops will have a hard time shooting them from far away,but they can fire like normal.

[Admiral Vostok]

Okay, maybe the capital ships idea isn't feasible.

 

As for new civs... don't forget until a few years ago people playing Star Wars games only ever got to be rebels or imperials. Now we have a lot more armies from the movies to add variety. I will retract my statement about the Wookiees, but I would hate to see anything that isn't at least based in the movies as a civ. I'm a Star Wars Purist, so I say no to EU civs (such as the Yuzan Vong or what ever they're called). However, I suppose something like a Mon Calamari civ isn't all bad.

 

And I stand by a zoom-in function. However, please note this does NOT mean a movable camera. I have a dislike for games where the camera can rotate around the map, it adds a complexity that really isn't needed. Zooming in, however, is different, and anyone who has played Empire Earth will back me up that it is cool (even if it has no purpose other than being cool).

 

I'd also like to add something thought of concerning Jedis. I want to see them deflect laser bolts! Every tenth bolt or so they deflect back at their attacker.

[Darth Windu]

Tyrion - if it was an infantry battle (WW1) that would work, but when you add mobile artillery, armour (mechs) and aircraft, you have to wage a war of mobility, turning the enemy's flank for example. In a battle such as that, any infatry in a trench would be slaughtered.

[Legacy_Of_Sith]

I agrre with Nilar, Star Destroyers just don't fit in this type of game.

[Darth Windu]

I disagree, i think the Star Destroyer and similar ships should be in the game in one of two forms-

1. Air Cruiser

2. Superweapon - Space Bombardment or something similar

[eizo131]

I think that we are getting of the point go RoN!! Now then trenches should be a choice the player should be able to make trenches, mines etc.... But strafing is a GREAT idea. I really miss strafing enemies in flight simulaters and rogue leader. Super star destroyers, and star destroyers WERE seen in the battle of hoth. ( blockading the planet ) And SD and SSD are made on planets I thimk so they can enter atmospheres and exit then as well. Did you see the end of ep.2? Cruisers leaving courasant?

[memezcom]

Ironic thing is, that when they try and do something different with a game genre they get criticised for their efforts...e.g. Focom...

I suspect their own market research and making a game suitable for more than one gaming platform play a big part in how a game gets developed...

[KoL ShadowJedi]

if LA put a lot of stuff WE (the community and ppl who buy the great game) want it would cost hell of a lot Jk2 cost £35 EE cost £35 this would cost £35- £50

 

cos it would take a LONG time to get it to all fit nicely im gonna start a thread on units and other things to maybe put in a new SWGB (if they make one)

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Originally posted by eizo131

I think that we are getting of the point go RoN!! Now then trenches should be a choice the player should be able to make trenches, mines etc.... But strafing is a GREAT idea. I really miss strafing enemies in flight simulaters and rogue leader. Super star destroyers, and star destroyers WERE seen in the battle of hoth. ( blockading the planet ) And SD and SSD are made on planets I thimk so they can enter atmospheres and exit then as well. Did you see the end of ep.2? Cruisers leaving courasant?

 

That's what I was gonna say. Only problem is how to do cities. Yeah sure ya can say they are planets but then how do u do the planet's terrain?

[Admiral Odin]

Originally posted by eizo131

SD and SSD are made on planets I thimk so they can enter atmospheres and exit then as well. Did you see the end of ep.2? Cruisers leaving courasant?

 

SD, and SSDs (most ships for that matter) are made in orbital shipyards. For a number of reasons.

 

1. It is eaisier.

 

2. If you build such ships on the ground, then you must use resources to send them into space. Where you can just build them in space and save some.

 

3. If you have an air leak, you can spot it in a vaccum easier then in atmosphere...

 

4. They are to big, to construct on the ground.

 

SDs, might be able to enter on the upper atmosphere, but I doubt that. I do know the VSD's are able to enter a planet's atmosphere. In Ep2, the ships you see are not as massive as SDs. Not to mention SSDs. Smaller classes are able to enter a planet's atmosphere such as the Corellian Corvette and others.

 

What I would do for a new game:

 

1. For economy, I wouldn't have it were you must mine something, or harvest. Instead set up supply lines. As such I would make it a little more complicated. To explain lets look at training a Stromtrooper. What would you need to do this.

 

1.New Recruit

2.Armor

3.Blaster

4.Food

 

To get these supplies you will need certain buildings. For instance, to get New recruites you'll need a barracks. To get armor and blasters you will need an armory, and finally for food you would need a Mess Hall. Once each building is built a supply/transport ship will appear to deliver the goods at say your command center. Then when you have the necessary goods, you can get a trooper.

 

This also could mean new tatics. Such as attacking supply lines, escorting supply ships, and mabye stealing supply ships if they are unprotected.

 

2. Impliment Moral into the game. Lets look at the Empire and Rebels for this one. Say they are fighting a battle, and the Empire is losing. Moral would get lower, if it gets low enough, then there could be a chance of Stormtroppers defecting to the Rebels. For the Rebels if moral is low, then they would throw down their weapons and walk of the screen. There can be many ways to affect it, like attacking the flanks, reinforcements, ambushes ect.

 

Then it could be possible to implement hero units, that affect moral, and are not just a stronger unit. Vader for instance, would inspire fear. The Imperial Troops would have the moral strengthend while the Rebels would have it lowered. Then say Leia could provide hope for them and boost the Rebel moral.

 

3. No more villagers. THey are completly out of place in a military base. Replace them with combat engineers who construct buildings, lay mines, defuse mines.

 

4. POWs, (Connects with moral): (Go with the Empire again). Say imperial troops are destroying a rebel group. Then there should be a chance were they may surrender. If they do then the Imperial player could send them to be interogated, and part of the enemy base is revealed. Have an interrogation center.

 

5. With Mechs and other things, have it a 2 step process. Get the mech, (order it, and the build time would the time it takes to arrive at the base), At the same time you would have to Train pilots for it. The pilots could enter the Mech, and leave it. If they are not in the mech, it has the chance of being taken by enemy drivers.

 

6. Experience (Veterancy). Have them tied with to the soldier not the vechile. (Connects with #5). Since vechiles aren't a live. For example. You have an At-At, it has gained some experience, and now is about to be destroyed. If you get the crew out of the vechile then you even if the vechile is destroyed you still have experienced drivers. Or if an x-wing is destroyed and the pilot ejects. The pilot has the veternancy, and if he gets backs to the base alive, then you just need to get a replacement x-wing.

 

This would allow for more possible tatics, such as rescuing downed pilots, or other crew members. Also if it's a the unit has enough experience they could hijacke a supply shuttle giving the player an added bonus.

 

7. Housing: No more build a house, replace that with barracks.

[Darth Windu]

Really i think there needs to be one major change to any future star wars RTS. LESS MICROMANAGEMENT!!!!!!!!! I dont want to sit there for an hour figuring out what research out of 100 i should get with the resources i have. I want to be able to build large armies quickly and go fight the enemy.

 

Having said that i do like the idea of no houses, moral, surrendering etc. The game needs to 'flow' a lot better than it does at the moment as well.

[KoL ShadowJedi]

admiral i sense a bit of Stonghold in your words

[simwiz2]

Originally posted by Darth Windu

(1) Really i think there needs to be one major change to any future star wars RTS. LESS MICROMANAGEMENT!!!!!!!!! (2) I dont want to sit there for an hour figuring out what research out of 100 i should get with the resources i have. (3) I want to be able to build large armies quickly and go fight the enemy.

 

Having said that i do like the idea of no houses, moral, surrendering etc. The game needs to 'flow' a lot better than it does at the moment as well.

 

1 - Really, I think there needs to be one major change to your posts. LESS STUPIDITY!!!!!!!! The only place where this game has bad micro is the farms depleting. Additional micro is brought on by lack of understanding of: commands, no attack stance, hotkeys, follow, etc.

 

2 - If you are really that stupid - then you should be playing Bob the Builder games. They would be easier for you to comprehend. Research adds strategy and replayability to the game.

 

3 - Looks like you forgot how to build power cores! With power cores, you do build an army rather fast, unless you are one of those turtle n00bs who wait until 3 hours of the game have passed to build an army.

 

What you seem to want is a clickfest game with no economy and almost no technology. If you want clickfest go play WC3. Or AoM when it comes out.

[Admiral Odin]

Originally posted by KoL ShadowJedi

admiral i sense a bit of Stonghold in your words

 

It is one of my favorite RTS games.

[Darth Windu]

Of course simwiz is given the opportunity to add a constructive post, but no, he has to attack other member's idea's. The whole thing about micromanagement is that there is too much research to do, there is no research queue, and there is only a '15' unit queue, all of which lead me to the conclusion there is too much micromanagement. Fortunately it can be corrected easily.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Windu how old are you really?

Only little kids with no experience whatsoever want an easy game. I don't think there is too much micromanagements and only stupid people who can't organize their lives a little bit would think that this game has to much micro managements. Stupid slaughters only games are not really rts. They are more infinite ressource, build an army and watch them beat the crap out of each other.I don't know how can somebody like a game where you do almost nothing.

[RollingFelony]

Please no ridiculing other posts, although a little constructive criticism could have saved a few space shuttles . I personally think that taking economy out would take away from the game, and the Tecnologies incorprate replayability and longevity of the title. I think the biggest part that promises replayability for myself is LAN games!! with friends and trying different tecs and using different strategies. Without the techs, we could not go Huge on fighters one round, then the next go more ground, exc. The economy in Command and Conquer RA:2 is a good example of no economy....just get the Jems and you dont have much control of how quickly you get recources. In reality, no science research and no economy meant surrender. They should make thier own economy system though not copy exactly

Sadly I think most of the stock in the future of Lucasarts is going towards Galaxies which unfortunately is not my cup of tea....but maybe I will like it...but it has been my experience that Online Play is great until you start seeing the childish behavior of some gamers. Hacking, exc.

Hopefully Lucasarts wont forget us RTS nuts!!!