self killing in ctf

[DSbr-HaZe]

Do you guys have a reading problem? You are completley ignoring anything anyone has said in defense of self killing. All you can say is crap like OH 1337 U ARE LAMER LOSER FOR USING INTERNET TERMS. Self killing is used. It is a console command. You get the advantage of a quicker spawn at the loss of a point. It is there for a reason. Self killing is prevalent in almost every game, or at least the command is there. Even strategy games allow you to kill of useless units. That is the point, if you are useless to your team in your current state then you are hurting, not helping. I would assume a lot of you enjoy winning when you play? Or is it not HONORABLE to win? The kill command was coded into the original Jedi Knight, its in Unreal Tournament, Quake 3, RTCW, Medal of Honor, every fps(hehe most of them are based on q3 engine) INCLUDING JK2. Which means it is going to include the same console commands. It is not cheap. Your ONLY argument for it being cheap is WAAH I DIDNT GET A KILL or WAAAH YOU SHOULD JUST PLAY WITHOUT FORCE AND LET IT GROW BACK THE HONORABLE WAY. My answer to this is WHY? Why sit around useless with no force or in gay mode once rage has worn off(or do u super jedi masters not succumb to the dark side???). The fact is there is no point. CTF is a team game. It is not deathmatch, it is not let's run around like newbies saber challenging each other. I will educate you idiots. There is this thing called the flag. It is your master. If you want to look cool and have supar high score like a true jedi then you must grab this flag and bring it back to your base and touch your team's flag to score a whopping yoda like high number of points(100). Now, let's say you think your super good cause you grab the flag and never cap it and just gain points of the 10 you get from grabbing the flag, you are a newbie so stfu. There is also the problem of the team grabbing your flag. Get it back retards. So, if you happen to have no ammo and no force when the opposing team grabs your flag, and you are on defense, what are you going to do? Trot after the enemy who is force raging away? Good luck idiot, so I hope this example clarifies for the morons the importance of self killing in CTF a TEAM GAME. Must i say again THIS IS NOT RUN AROUND LIGHTSABAR CHALLENGING LIKE A JEDI MASTAR YODA or some ****. Raven and LucasArts i will laugh at you if you even have pondered removing this for the idiot newbies. I am even thinking of not buying Quake 4 because Raven can't seem to make a game that isn't full of complaining babies. WAAH HE UNJEDILIKE SELF KILLED. Its a game its not real star wars, learn it or don't play ctf, nobody is forcing you to, but just stfu about it you whining babies.

 

-HaZe

[Krelia]

i hope raven does conform to these crying newbies and kills their sales for q4 before it even finishes developing. **** raven for basically destroying the competitive community of jk2 that could have been.

[Rad Blackrose]

Son, you have just failed 3rd grade english. Now turn your ass around and go back to your round table with jesse the clutz and jaime the mentally challenged gun nut.

[-Chrono_MOT-]

First of all, saberists aren't n00bs. It requires a lot of skill to fight effectively, and if you say it doesn't it is because you just run around using scripts and backstabbing all the time. I'd like to see you do that against a real opponent. I'll laugh when you get cut shreds by one of us.

 

CTF, I will agree on the fact that it is based for team play...and that suicide is the most effective way to get back to spawn before they cap the flag. But come on, just because you run out of force? That doesn't make you a good player, it makes you a coward. If you're really a good player, then you would at least try and kill the other person before they become a problem to the rest of your team. Killing yourself because you don't have force doesn't make you good - end of story. Killing yourself because you ran out of rage or speed doesn't make you good - end of story. Unless you are strategically using suicide the way it was supposed to be used in CTF (returning to the spawn area to stop the opposing team from capturing your flag) you are being a sissy. There's no other argument about it.

 

You can flame me all you want, all you will be doing is wasting your time on someone who doesn't really care what you think anyway, and I don't care if you don't care what I think. Don't march around thinking you're the best player in the world because you have the most suicides. Every player plays JK2 for different modes. Some play CTF, some duel, some do FFA. Some sit around and just talk while casually dueling each other. But don't try and mix all of them together to find the best player because each has their respective best.

 

When I open up my server to the public, I will definitely kick anyone I catch killing themselves for any stupid reason. You best never kill yourself while dueling me or I will ban your ass on sight.

 

No, that doesn't make me a jedi nerd, but it does make you a coward.

[DSbr-HaZe]

"CTF, I will agree on the fact that it is based for team play...and that suicide is the most effective way to get back to spawn before they cap the flag. But come on, just because you run out of force? That doesn't make you a good player, it makes you a coward. If you're really a good player, then you would at least try and kill the other person before they become a problem to the rest of your team. Killing yourself because you don't have force doesn't make you good - end of story. Killing yourself because you ran out of rage or speed doesn't make you good - end of story. Unless you are strategically using suicide the way it was supposed to be used in CTF (returning to the spawn area to stop the opposing team from capturing your flag) you are being a sissy. There's no other argument about it. "

 

K thanks for not reading anything i posted. Its a game not real life, sorry if i am a "coward". Dont ****ing reply if its going to be stupidity like this, or WAH U DIDNT GO TO 3RD GRADE.

[Luc Solar]

Oh my god, not this crap again.

 

Let me tell you something mister l337 clan dude and allmighty god of all opinions:

 

EVERYONE here understands what CTF is all about. You do not have to clarify the differences between game types. Ok? Ok.

 

EVERYONE here agrees that using "/kill" has its benefits.

 

(please try to pay attention now >>> ) THAT'S THE WHOLE GOD DAMN PROBLEM!

 

Do you understand this finally?

 

 

Okay, let me put it in another way:

 

People gain an advantage by exploiting "/kill". Ok? Ok.

 

IMHO exploits are bad. You think they're great. This is the issue.

 

 

I also find it immensely amusing, that whenever someone disagrees, it's like:

 

 

Boy # 1: I'm going to to visit Paris and the Louvre this fall.

 

Boy # 2: STFU the Louvre isn't in paris, it's in Gothenburg!

 

Boy # 1: No, it's in Paris.

 

Boy # 2: Alright that's it: you and me, outside right now! We're

gonna settle this question with our bare knuckles!

 

Boy # 1: Uh...? So, like....the Louvre will be shipped to Gothenburg if you beat me?

 

Boy # 2: OUTSIDE, NOW!

 

 

.....Yes, I'm referring to the dozens of challenges you guys have made in the other thread.

 

From another point of view it's like... if I say you guys stink really bad, you challenge me to stick my nose up your ass and prove it.

 

Lol, I don't think so.

[KungFuJM]

Since there is another new thread on this.. I am going to post this again. Why??? Because I can.

 

 

I wanted to post this and tell you how this really affects ladder games. This was not written by me, but by one of my teammates.

 

Forgotten Outcasts [FO], had started playing in the OGL while the

1.04 patch was in usage. This was a source of optimism for me and my

clan. We were hesitant of being able to play in a fair and uncheating

atmosphere while scripts "cheats" were being used. But the latest

patch had fixed it so that the pull force power could not be

manipulated into being unblockable. And therefore, would not have to

worry about how wide spread it use was. However, I find myself now

concerned with the '/kill' command and the use of its bind.

In Quake III, the '/kill' bind is of miniscule advantage (although

I am not up to date on my current Quake patches, as to whether it has

been altered to some effect.) For re spawning without a real gun is

more than likely nothing but a hindrance. I do know that in Elite

Force, which uses the Quake III engine, suicides were limited by a 5

second time interval. And still to little advantage, even if you were

playing a mod. Both of these games however did not have force power

that automatically starts at full on each re spawn. And in Jedi

Outcast, you can kill yourself at will.

This email is a grievance, about our most recent CTF match where

it appeared to us that our opponents (Primal Instinct) strategy was

entirely based around having '/kill' binded and how this one command

allows you to abuse force power dispicably. Also to see what can be

done regarding it and of a ruling on suicides.

One minute into the first map of our match and I was greatly

disgusted. I would have wanted it called off right then and there. To

us, they were nothing more than arrogant cheaters, yet we were still

unsure as to whether or not their behavior should be tolerated. In

desperation I tried to record a demo but found myself at a loss

because g_synchronousclients was not set to 1. We stuck it through and

lost. To which we grossly protest. We feel we should not have to stand

for such behavior and want a rematch, with suicide being deemed

illegal. But we will in the end abide with any decision you would make.

The force powers that were being abused most of all were rage and

speed, but not always at the same time. With these, you can find your

self almost anywhere on the map in less than a second. If you thought

you took to much damage to make it to and back with the enemy flag,

you could always kill yourself and be right back at the spot in no

time. When rage wears off, you move sluggish for a bit and with fewer

health points. At this point they always chose to kill themselves.

When they hear that their flag has been stolen, they could kill

themselves to re spawn closer to their base, turn on both these force

powers and effectively any weapon they pick up being unblockable with

saber and three times the rate of fire. Then, rather deal with the

damage caused by rage, they killed themselves. Hopefully re spawning

somewhere closer to our base. With force rage, you take a lot less

damage from weapons. Therefore can use anything without fear of splash

damage. Grenades, rockets, fletchet and repeater all close up. And

then to heal themselves after, you just suicide and be right back

where you were. The only real way to lessen the advantage of killing

yourself to that of Quake III would be too make force regeneration

time instantaneous. I believe this, however, to be totally absurd. And

it still would fall short of leveling the playing field. At the end of

the berserk killing yourself is all to your advantage. Why waste those

precious seconds being slow and impotent when you could instantly

start right back up again as a killing machine.

I also outright accuse them of changing their force powers as

easily as having it bound to a key. In the '/cvarlist' force power

setups are denoted with a number and having these force powers take

effect, the command 'changeforce' is to be used and the setup will be

changed upon your next re spawn. Yet, I would not stop there. For you

could have a whole keypad of force setups at your disposal. And not

having the keys bound to a script but to execute an entirely

new configuration. With a simple key you could execute a configuration

that changes your forcepower number, have the 'changeforce'commabd

take effect, kill yourself and have your binds setup to accommodate

for the new force powers. Effectively, I could use force rage and

speed to rush the enemy base. Not worrying about having the side

affects, or be picky about whatever weapon I have, for I am just going

in to weaken enemy defenses and will kill myself whenever I see fit. I

could keep doing this easily and fast, as much as I want. Not

hesitating to kill myself if I run out of amo. Then, when I feel the

time is right, execute a new configuration. Killing myself to give me

something like speed, and absorb now bound to my prior rage key. Turn

them both on and have enough force power left over for jumping, rush

in to grab the enemy flag and rush out. Yet, this it but one example.

Through exploiting the suicide command an entire team can became much

too versatile.

All this because Raven did not alter the suicide command. I do not

feelonly cheated out of our match, but cheated in having fun with

thegame. Me and my team want a rematch with Primal Instinct if the OGL

should see fit to rule that killing yourself is absolutely

untolerated. If you should agree with my position and have the ear of

those who would patch this behavior out of the game. Please PLEASE!

forward my email.

 

 

~KFJ

[DSbr-HaZe]

"People gain an advantage by exploiting "/kill". Ok? Ok.

 

IMHO exploits are bad. You think they're great. This is the issue. "

 

How are they EXPLOITING it if you just said it is beneficial. They are using it for its benefits, not just spawn /kill, spawn /kill, how can u exploit something like this. If they were overusing it they would have a negative score and it would therefore be useless.

Because I am in a clan it is assumed that i feel I am the god of everything? I feel I have to explain the concept of CTF because 90% of the people whining about the /kill consider themselves saberists/duelers or whatever. I will concede and say yes maybe sabering requires skill. However, sabers and guns are 2 separate things, and its ONLY saberists whining about guns. You don't see us whining about being sabered in guns matches. It is the saberists who killed competitive(ladder play not just joining a server) jedi knight because they whined about guns and how they are unfair. /kill is not being exploited. How often do you play CTF to understand when it is used. Have you even bothered trying it Luc? This is the internet I am not going to proofread my posts for grammar or use paragraphs or complete thoughts so whine about this all you want. and KungFu FO doesnt know anything about CTF. In fact, there is really only 1 clan playing right now that even mildly understands the tactics. This game is filled with saberists, and all they do is whine when they join guns servers or CTF games. We have been challenged on guns ladders and asked to play sabers only, when there are saber only ladders. Who are the morons here? None of you stop whining about anything, but then I whine about something and I am called a little kiddy WAAAH. Are you that sensitive to internet chat that you can't hear a few swears or be called a newbie? oh wait here comes the post on how its uncalled for, bah im not even bothering, because of course its us who are thick headed. If you want to play sabers thats fine, but you have no place talking about what is and isnt an exploit in a mode you don't play.

[KungFuJM]

First of all, I don't think the bottom paragraph was addressed at me. At least I hope not, as I have not called anyone a "NOOB" or anything else in any of my posts regrarding this. What I am saying is "YES" it most definately an exploit. Why because it does give a team an unfair advantage. As for you saying they would have a negative score if they abused it, who cares in CTF. CTF isn't about scores it's about FLAG CAPS. I have been playing CTF forever and not just in JO, but Unreal quake, halflife, etc... So Yes I do know what CTF is and yes I do know how to play it. They need to ban /kill or add a timer just like the rest of the TF games out there. People who rely on a bug to win are the ones with no skill, and thats just waht /kill is a bug. Raise the respawn time if you want to use it.

 

~KFJ

[Gooey]

Paragraphs are your friend people...

 

[Gooey]

(kicks the horse again)

 

Well, it's dead Jim

[=NCG=Merlyn]

Ok first off here, I dont care if this topic is dead Im posting on it cause Im late to this thread.

I am without doubt the _worst_ player in CTF for my clan, bar none. But I dont let that stop me from learning from the "1337" players. I play D and I use /kill for all the reasons you read b4.

 

Instead of sitting here *itching at us CTFers why dont you all get a clan or two up and come to CTF ladder at TWL. Play it for a month or enough time to play two teams in a REAL match and then you can flame us for whatever. Im not gonna sit here and go through the billion Pros or Cons about this and that. If I want to learn to play FFA or TDM or WHATEVER...... wait got a thought brewing here................ yeah ok.................. I GO FAGGIN PLAY IT!!!!

 

LORD!!!! you want to know what your talking about b4 you start flaming CTFers on /kill.

If I was in your position and I didnt like "whatever the case may be" about a play style that is widely adopted by gamers in that specific game type, I would take my arse to a server and learn why the hell everyone did it, ........answer your own disbeliefs and questions people.

Otherwise dont play CTF.

Im out thanks for letting me flame

[DSbr-HaZe]

kung did u not read my initial post? in it i think i explained that ctf is about capturing the flag........

 

christ i give up. i will email raven now and tell them i think the lightsaber is an exploit because it makes noise and noise can cause my fps to drop by like .1 which is unplayable.

[Psychopomps]

Look, for all those that claim that the "/kill" command is not an exploit, you sir are a fool.

 

The "/kill" command in all of the engines was designed for one thing, troubleshooting. There are several mods and crap out there where you can get "stuck" and the only way to get out of it is to "/kill". It was a tool to be used as so, not abused.

 

Every point I've read here is nothing more than a way to exploit normal game play.

 

- The time for you to fall to your death is part of normal game dynamics.

- You running out of force power is part of the game.

- You being a 1HP, moving slow as crap is the negative effect of Dark Rage.

- /kill was not a tool used for you to warp back to your base.

 

 

You boneheads really think that /kill was put in the game to your advantage to get past this? Think again, you've got a lot to learn. And for all of those who depend on it, I can't wait until it's soon patched or banned from most ladders. So keep living by it....

 

-Dev

[Luc Solar]

Originally posted by DSbr-HaZe

"People gain an advantage by exploiting "/kill". Ok? Ok.

IMHO exploits are bad. You think they're great. This is the issue. "

 

How are they EXPLOITING it if you just said it is beneficial. They are using it for its benefits, not just spawn /kill, spawn /kill, how can u exploit something like this.......

Are you that sensitive to internet chat that you can't hear a few swears or be called a newbie?

 

Ummm....semantics...ok.

 

The definition of "Exploit" = To make use of selfishly or unethically.

 

If it wasn't benefical to the one exploiting, it wouldn't be called an exploit now would it?

 

And about the whole "bad boy-act", yes, you could say that I'm one of those people who think random insults have no place in arguments between strangers. It only makes you sound like a angry 12-year old.

 

The posts that started popping up yesterday show exactly what I dislike about tagged people. Nothing but arrogance, insults and occasional pics of old gay men doin' it.

 

Sorta sad if you ask me.

[KungFuJM]

I was responding to this.... When I was explaining CTF.. These are your own words.

 

~KFJ

 

 

Originally posted by DSbr-HaZe

"People gain an advantage by exploiting "/kill". Ok? Ok.

 

IMHO exploits are bad. You think they're great. This is the issue. "

 

How are they EXPLOITING it if you just said it is beneficial. They are using it for its benefits, not just spawn /kill, spawn /kill, how can u exploit something like this. If they were overusing it they would have a negative score and it would therefore be useless.

[=NCG=Merlyn]

Haze lmao hahahaha Ill second that man.

 

/kill is used for troubleshooting eh? Ok then wtf is it still in the specs for? Oh wait a design team that spent what maybe a year devloping this game and another 3 months patching just FORGOT to take out the "troubleshooting" tool.

 

AH HAHAHHAHA palease. Nice try at an excuse there man, keep trying.

 

And if they do patch the /kill its not gonna make a difference, at all. Youll just find another thing to complain about and then *itch to get that nerfed.

Like I said before get a team and come to TWL ladders and play some matches, then you can flame all you want.

[Garath]

Let me understand this..

 

Sum of all arguements : "using a /kill bind gives the team an unfair advantage and should be changed with a spawn delay or a health penalty"

 

The opposing argument is that it is a team strategy that tightens the defense as well as improves the capping speed.

 

First, I'm a capper generally, so most of my arguments and parallels come from the capping perspective.

 

Second and on-topic. Yes.. I'll agree it does give an unfair advantage if the opposing team is not using /kill binds. However, would you also argue that using Rage/Speed gives an unfair speed advantage compared to someone on light powers only using Speed?

 

Yes.. Rage/Speed is MUCH faster. So they have an unfair advantage compared to someone using light powers excusively.

 

But now I hear you saying, but Rage has drawbacks so its not an unfair or exploitable advantage..

 

Well... /kill has drawbacks also, you spawn in the wrong spot and find yourself in a worse position. You spawn with no weapons (and saber isn't effective in CTF).

 

But wait, that's not as big of a drawback as Rage! Sure it is.. If I can't defensively kill someone before the duration of Rage is completed then likely they've capped already. And if I can't cap offensively before Rage wears off, I'm sure as hell not going to kill myself while I have the flag now am I? (unless you are Rusted/Blind)

 

Usually if Rage wears off I'll have a teammate kill me and recover the flag, but is that exploiting too? It sure gives an unfair advantage..

 

What else gives an unfair advantage? Going through the sniper window in Bespin Exhausts? I get an unfair advantage there, its a nice little shortcut. My team may have an unfair advantage by using voice speak in the background. Should that be banned from gameplay also?

 

/kill is in the game to /kill yourself. There are alot of /bind commands that exist that are not explicit in the GUI but are considered 'OK' to use. Some of them being the demoing functions and the Teamsay binds.. Do they give an advantage? Yup. Watching demos of yourself and your teammates sure do give you a leg up. And teamsay binds are invaluble if you don't have voice communication.

 

To sum up my arguments, If we were to ask Raven to remove everything from the game that gave an 'unfair' strategic advantage to someone then there wouldn't be much left of the game. Its these tactics that define competitive play. Any competitive team in the world on any sport, any playing grounds, will find strategies that give their team an edge over their opponent. Then once both teams start using it, its no longer an edge unless you do it better.

[DSbr-HaZe]

merlyn is right, there were a million other q3 console variables used to test things(one used to give u bot like aim) which were removed before release etc. /kill will not be removed from any ladders either so have fun wishing. OGL could care less and the TWL admins are also JK2 players. this board is complete saber land. Go complain to raven. I am a faggot for being here when i don't play jk2, i would just find it hilarious if they removed the /kill command. I will even write them an email asking them to. better yet why not write one to carmack so /kill is never used in any quake or doom based game ever again!?!?!?!?!!?!? haha newbie whiners

[KungFuJM]

FAGGOT & NEWBIE, why should I expect anything more from a child. I fail to see what anyones sexual preferance has to do with anything.

 

 

~KFJ

 

 

Originally posted by DSbr-HaZe

merlyn is right, there were a million other q3 console variables used to test things(one used to give u bot like aim) which were removed before release etc. /kill will not be removed from any ladders either so have fun wishing. OGL could care less and the TWL admins are also JK2 players. this board is complete saber land. Go complain to raven. I am a faggot for being here when i don't play jk2, i would just find it hilarious if they removed the /kill command. I will even write them an email asking them to. better yet why not write one to carmack so /kill is never used in any quake or doom based game ever again!?!?!?!?!!?!? haha newbie whiners

[DSbr-HaZe]

i called myself a faggot, do u take offense from that? homophobe

[FatalStrike]

First let me say "great post" to Gooey for his "paragraphs are your friends comments"

 

Second I would like to address the people who want the kill command nerfed. ehem....um...hmm..how can I....oh yeah!...STFU you silly fools....*breaths*

 

OK now that I got that out of my system let me say this. The Kill command is helpful and it follows the game rules. If you don't like it, so what? Why should I and others who don't mind it have to give a fkying Fck about what bothers you or not?

 

-Kill does not kill anyone but the user

 

-Kill takes points form he who uses it

 

-Kill only works at your own base where if you are killed is where you respawn anyway.

 

- Kill an enemy is only worth 1 point so it makes no difference in the end to those who were denied a kill.

 

If you force me to live when I don't want to I will jump off a ledge and do it the old fashion way or have a team mate kill me. (note: if you are playing with friendly damage off you are a noob)

 

If you have a problem with people using this to gain an advatage at their own base, you are an idiot. What the hell is worng with having an advatage at YOUR OWN BASE. This increases defensive ability of ones base and make the game more interesting. Better defense = better CTF

 

So my theory has been and always will be that if you whine about dumb sh*t its only because you are a dumb sh*t

 

Fatal Out

 

PS Flame me if you dare but unless you have a reason why a team shouldn't have an advantage AT THEIR OWN BASE don't waste your time. Comments like "because its honorable" will only make me laugh. You fools just never give up nerfing this game and I hate all of you that support nerfing in anyway shape or form.

 

For now download JK++ or Promod and come play with the big boys! (note only download jk++ if you are a server, otherwise just play)

[Gooey]

Originally posted by DSbr-HaZe

i called myself a faggot, do u take offense from that? homophobe

 

Dude, don't be a f'ing retard. The context that u used the word in was demeaning, and you call HIM a homophobe? How about bigot. Does that sit well in your vocabulary? Or maybe hypocrite if you prefer.

 

I agree btw with your whole argument. U just make it poorly. Not to mention why even bother. Is it really going to change anything?

[Glince]

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[Glince]

LOL. Sorry couldn't see any words when I typed so I got mad. Ok, now. Almost all of the ways to suicide I don't have a problem with. It's the Rage, Speed user who is on defense that makes this command an exploit. Rage is an awsome weapon but it's supposed to have a big penalty for it's use. Sorry if I misspelled something but I can't see my text for some reason.