Masterplan!

[drluv]

Hi

 

I want a adventure game from Lucasarts (or at least, Ron Gilbert) with 2d Graphics, and no freakin' 3d! Why nobody wants any 2d anymore? I mean, MI4 and Indy5 were really bad, I think most of us would enjoy new games, in 2d, they looked better, and were the best games I've ever played... Is there a petition to sign, that Lucasarts MUST do some 2d adventures? Indy6 is (again) 3d, and I don't know about Sam&Max, but I hope that STeve Purcell refused to used a 3d engine, to mess up with his characters!

 

Why only fans create 2d games, I liked the Zak2 fan version very much... Lucasarts HAVE to make some new 2d adventure games!

[jannar85]

Yeah it's a sad idea.... I know.

 

But there's still a few other adventure developers working on 2D adventure games. Like myself, working on Roger Foodbelly which will have CMI style gfx!

 

Sam&Max MUST have 2D gfx because the game is based on the cartoon. Sooo, CMI style S&M would be awsome!

[mercatfat]

Cel Shading is as close as you're going to get to Sam and Max 2 being a 2D cartoon. Sad as it is, 2D is a niche market now. We're just going to have to live with it and thank god for niche developers, commercial or homebrew.

[Esseb]

Last time I checked, Powerpuff Girls weren't 3d.

 

3d doesn't dominate television. Disney didn't stop churning out sing-a-long cartoon films with a morale after Toy Story.

 

So why on earth must every computer game be 3d? There are more people out here than CS and Quake addicts. I'm confident an adventure game would sell REALLY well it if was done in 2d, with a decent minimum spec and, here's the novel idea, marketed not solely in Computer Magazines, rather in regular newspapers and magazines. The Sims did this, worked for it.

 

It'd have to be good though... not that the Sims was.

[moebius]

I think that's why there are so many projects to make 2D adventure game engines: the big game-creation companies are abandoning 2D, even in adventure games. They don't mind that the most important thing is the story itself, not that curly-real-time-shaded-with-GL characters/scenerios, not that fancy-excessive-computer-demanding adventure games. Adventure lovers as I only want good stories, good puzzles.

That's it.

[deadworm222]

Originally posted by drluv

I mean, MI4 and Indy5 were really bad, I think most of us would enjoy new games, in 2d, they looked better, and were the best games I've ever played...

 

That's just your personal opinion. GK3 was great, and 3d allows a better athmospehre

[Erwin_Br]

Originally posted by deadworm222

 

That's just your personal opinion. GK3 was great, and 3d allows a better athmospehre

 

3D *could* allow better athmospehre if done properly. Personally, I didn't like the cartoon-3D style of EMI. The backgrounds weren't half detailed as in CMI.

 

Maybe 3D is more suited for realistic enviroments, like Grim Fandango. This game is a perfect example of how well 3D can work for adventure games.

 

Full Throttle looks promising too, although I hope they'll improve Ben's model.

 

I'm wondering what LEC will do with Sam and Max 2. My prefrence goes to 2D or shellshaded 3D. I don't think our two cartoon hero's would look good in 3D.

 

--Erwin

[jannar85]

Yeah I agree with you Erwin, and I also agree that EMI didn't fit the 3D style, 2D was much more detailed.

[deadworm222]

Let me clear my thoughts.

 

Just because EMI and Indy were bad games it doesn't mean all other 3d adventures will be bad. IMHO TLJ was good, and so was Grim and so was GK3.

 

In my opinion EMI didn't suck because of 3D, it sucked because of Jambalaya island (mainly Murray), HT Marley (probably the most horrible mistake in the game), Monkey Combat, badly recycled title tune (and other music), unfinishedness (that's not a real word...), worse humour (too many unfunny injokes, like the keg-of-rum joke), and some other reasons I've already forgotten. I liked EMI demo, I thought that it was great, but NOPE, the game was not so good in the end.

 

Indy 5 - well, would Indy 5 in 2D have been any better ? It STILL would have been action. Actually, I find 2D action games quite boring.

 

I'm really looking forward to Broken Sword 3. It might be just the atmospheric game that takes advantage of 3D environment and has sensible action, not senseless shooting. That, I tell you, is a good thing, and something that might make adventure games more popular, if advertised correctly (stupid chat-people will think it's an action/adventure, heehee, like Tomb Raider, and then they buy it when PC Gamer gives it 155/100, or whatever scale they use).

[moebius]

Of course there are good adventure games in 3D, but 3D will not fit definitely with adventures until 3D is conveniently adopted. I mean: want 3D? let's use 3D, with all in 3D. No pre-rendered backgrounds. No "static" scenarios. Cameras!!! Explanation:

 

1. No pre-rendered backgrounds: althought detailed 3D rendering is an expensive task, pre-rendered -and very detailed- backgrounds don't fit with 3D characters that haven't lots of polygons. So there's a need to make all in 3D, in realtime, even with less detail.

 

2 & 3: No "static" scenarios, cameras: in almost all 2D, classical or modern, adventure games there are scrolls, and even multiple scroll planes in many cases. With pre-rendered backgrounds scenerios tend to be "static" as in GF, and the camera changes point of view when reaching some places. Scrolls are good as they provide large scenarios, as well a sensation of continuity. Here is where cameras need to be used: if you make all the game in 3D, you can make soft, precise scrolls by moving the camera just by sticking the point of view to the main character. And with this you gain advantages with 3D: in 2D you can scroll up/down and left/right, with 3D you can do in/out scrolling, and make combinations of them!

 

Probably someone had this idea before, but once Lixoo is terminated and running, we might do plans for adding such a feature to it and make some sort of Lixoo3D. But first, we must finish the "traditional-style" Lixoo.

 

Finally, my personal opinion is that classical 2D games were funnier because as programmer's hadn't machines like actual ones (with tons of MHz, SoundPlasters and GL-o-matic-VGAs) they spent more time making the game "better".

[Esseb]

You know, there is no this OR that, we can perfectly well have both.

 

Grim Fandango - 3d

Curse of Monkey Island - 2d

 

Completely different games, but I can't see why both couldn't be sold in shops at the same time.

[deadworm222]

Originally posted by moebius

Finally, my personal opinion is that classical 2D games were funnier because as programmer's hadn't machines like actual ones (with tons of MHz, SoundPlasters and GL-o-matic-VGAs) they spent more time making the game "better".

 

I believe that there's are separate design and program parts when designing a game. And a lot of members in a team, so that necessarily a designer doesn't have to be a programmer - although I believe that even Jane Jensen is/was a programmer.