lukeiamyourdad Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Spell will give us more micro. Anyway, Corran, your idea is good and I to like the W3 and StarCraft heroes but those things seem not to fit really well in the Star Wars universe(except for Jedi). I think the heroes should be more like healers or maybe able to hijack mechs or something. For example: Han Solo: Able to hijack mechs Leïa: Convert enemy TROOPERS. Luke: Force push, other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 Originally posted by Arthur2 (1) it will only do so if ur troops are idling and someone comes over the attack u (2) like when u right click on the destination, ur troops won't attack until they reach there (3) if u are under attack, u'll probably lose half of ur troops , or maybe the entire chunk the hero will stop stuff like that it will stop ur troops and fight back , and ur troops will return on route after the conflict is resolved.. get it? (3) another example is that if u place ur troops somewhere just chilling and someone comes over and attack ur troops ur hero will split the idling troops and order them to fight back (4) it's an assistant, not a computer player it helps u take care of the little details UNLESS u are under attack + ur troops are idling and u didn't give any orders then the hero won't do anything it's just that they got smarter (5) u'll see, check EE out... i won't propose something that's as crappy as a computer player that plays for u... 1 - Okay, so my mounties are standing ready for an attack and a trooper takes a shot at one of them and runs under a shielded fortress. You see how easily something like this could be abused? 2 - I would expect any good recent game to have a stance or something for this, not a hero. 3 - No, when I hear a siren or warning sound I look on the mini-map and look at whats blinking. Then I go tell my units to stop and fight. 3 - It's the incompetent hero that will get all my troops slaughtered. No thanks. 4 - They already fight back. It's called defensive or stand ground, depending on preference. 5 - I wouldn't play that game even if someone GAVE it to me, and I certainly am not going to spend money on such a crap game. In fact, if your idea was in EE then that is one reason NOT to put it in GB:2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 Heros with special powers is probably the worst idea that Blizzard has had. And forcing them into Star Wars amplifies the problems not to mention makes them seem very lame. Special Powers add layers of micro and undermine gameplay due to a relience on heros and a shift away from regular units. At the outset of AoM, i was worried that it would be a battle between monsters and the human units werent going to be the central players. However, it is just the opposite, and AoM rates high in the fun factor. Oh, by the way, it comes out tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 Sith- did you completely miss what I posted before? The 'reliance' factor is eliminated by making them harder to produce and more valuable by the fact that they cannot respawn. AoM is the opposite? Hmm....... doesn't sound as good as I thought. Heroes with special powers (and in fact, special powers in general) is one of the best ideas ever implemented in an RTS. It makes the game more exciting, and rather than mindless "people shooting at each other," it's "people casting spells, counterspells, buffs, protections, increasing their attacks, etc. etc." It adds even more strategy and tactics into the game. Arthur- I know what you're suggesting. All you want are heroes with a better attack, armour, whatever. Well, in my opinion, this completely destroys all the fun. Having just one more unit which happens to do more damage is pretty damned boring for me. Special powers, spells, and the like are what really liven a game up, as I pointed out before. Luke's dad- I think it'd work even better in the SW universe. Have you heard anything about the new SW RPGs coming out, KoTor and Galaxies? They show in-depth how heroic, varied and powerful characters can really be, and it is our duty to reflect this in GB. In fact, it is heroes that truly gives you a link to the core of SW. Has anyone forgotten that it was heroes that turned the tide of every battle in the movies, and in fact, the entire war? Of course, I'm not suggesting that we're going to rely on heroes, but I believe that they should be shown, and would complement normal troops nicely. Also- there is no way that we're going to make characters from the movies buildable in the campaigns. In fact, your very mention of them seems a shift away from your "uber-units" idea which I am running with. Is this the case? The problem (or lack of a problem, whichever way you see it) is that the whole 'uber-units' thing makes it necessary that all the units be combat units. Unless, of course, you want an uber-medic, which I personally do not. Of course, certain units might have non-combat special powers, and even pure combattants could have a healing power as well as a fighting power. That is, if people will let me give them more than one power. Everyone- in case you haven't noticed, I like micromanagement. I believe it's the key to the RTS genre. Has anyone every played a game called Battle Realms? That was the king of micromanagement, and I loved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadrixTF Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 I also like the approach AOM has taken with the Hero concept and i can't wait to get it. CorranSec - as far as i am aware the Hero units in AOM do cast "Spells" and such and brings the world of Mythology to life... that's what makes it exciting over and above the new 3D RTS engine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur2 Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 I just got the trial for Age of Mythology actually, the heroes are pretty weak in that game. I think the reason why people create them is to get the spells and additional battle options yeah I think it's ok...as long as the spells are not too strong btw, some info on Age of Myth it's pretty much like AoK, except there are only three resource : food, wood and gold...the graphics is pretty good... well the myth powers are kinda....argh...strong I just played my first game and i got my ass whooped by a computer... the computer used this myth power called "underworld passage" which allows them to attack my base without tranveling half way across the map. Very interesting.. The myth units are pretty strong but then they are really expensive and they take up about 4 population each. You guys should check out the demo i got it from fileplanet... worth taking a look... It is a possibility for a future SWGB 2 cause...hmm I think the graphics is good enough..and the flying units look like they are actually hovering , not like a picture glued on the map in SWGB... You'll see.. in the trial u can only use Greek - Zeus and the age is limited to like...hmm what's the third age caled? classical age? can't remember... download the demo and enjoy it some food for thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur2 Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 just got the trial for Age of Mythology actually, the heroes are pretty weak in that game. the attack and hitpoints are just like other units, not excessively strong in either field. (they are weaker than myth units) people create heroes because they make ur troops smarter (HAHA!) and they give bonus damage to some troops (like..this JASON dude gives bonus damage to myth units and Odysseus gives bonus to archers...) the heroes don't have anything special other than leading ur troops, and give bonus damage... yeah this is kind of thing I am talking about cauz otherwise people may be relying on their hero like they do in war3... i like heroes that give plain assistance and bonus to damage... so they don't ruin the game balance... btw, some info on Age of Myth it's pretty much like AoK, except there are only three resource : food, wood and gold...the graphics is pretty good... well the myth powers are kinda....argh...strong I just played my first game and i got my ass whooped by a computer... the computer used this myth power called "underworld passage" which allows them to attack my base without tranveling half way across the map. Very interesting.. The myth units are pretty strong but then they are really expensive and they take up about 4 population each. You guys should check out the demo i got it from fileplanet... worth taking a look... It is a possibility for a future SWGB 2 cause...hmm I think the graphics is good enough..and the flying units look like they are actually hovering , not like a picture glued on the map in SWGB... You'll see.. in the trial u can only use Greek - Zeus and the age is limited to like...hmm what's the third age caled? classical age? can't remember... download the demo and enjoy it Oh, something on the farm thing the farms in AoM provides infinite amount of food meaning u don't have to do the replantation crap as long as u have villigers working u'll get food some food for thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 corran- I do know about KOTOR and GALAXIES and I am soooo getting them! Anyway, I don't think ''spells'' are part of the Star Wars universe, they just won't fit and will be pretty weird. Example: The battlecruisers in StarCraft used the ''Yamato Gun'' and it was kind of lame. Templars used Psionic Storm and it pissed off everyone else. The point is giving them super powers won't make the game better in terms of gameplay and even less in realism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 31, 2002 Share Posted October 31, 2002 Heres a note about the AoM trial, IT SUCKED!!!!!!!! Not only was the lag worse than the alpha, you got so little scope of the game it wasnt any fun. Believe me, Arthur, the game is way better with full techs/civs. Zeus vs Zues is boring as hell, because the Greeks are boring and too much like AoK (especially Zeus). The campaign is good, but the lag involved makes it a strenuous ordeal. I played the alpha, the game is about 6x as good as the demo. The real game is nothing like AoK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur2 Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 yeah luke's dad I agree.. I think heroes should be granted tactical advantages like giving ur surrounding troops more damage and more battle options realli? the demo...eh it gets kind of boring after a while cause there are only like....15 units 2 infantry units, 2 archers, 2 calvaries, 1 siege, 3 myth units, and some crappy boats and heroes.... argh.... what's the alpha lijke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadrixTF Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 Well, i'll skip the DEMO and wait for the Full-game - it's not too long to wait now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 Originally posted by Sithmaster_821 Heres a note about the AoM trial, IT SUCKED!!!!!!!! (1) Not only was the lag worse than the alpha, you got so little scope of the game it wasnt any fun. Believe me, Arthur, the game is way better with full techs/civs. Zeus vs Zues is boring as hell, because the Greeks are boring and too much like AoK (especially Zeus). The campaign is good, but the lag involved makes it a strenuous ordeal. I played the alpha, the game is about 6x as good as the demo. The real game is nothing like AoK. 1 - Sith, the trial was not put out before the optimization like the alpha. It should not lag badly. I think you need to consider the possibility of AoM not running very well on your computer. Also check and see if you have the required graphics card. Actually, in a 12-player large map it was lagging slightly even on MY computer, and mine is well over twice as fast as yours. I am not very impressed with the performance of the game. Overall the game is okay, and it is a fun game, but it's not the awesome revolutionary game that Sith makes it seem like. The editor is lacking, and many pre-game options that added replay value have been eliminated. There are 2 map sizes for each number of opponents: normal and large. So no more fast-paced games with many players on very small maps; no long expansionist games with few opponents on very large maps. Also, no speed settings. There is one speed, and it is fast+, so every game, even just one vs the AI, is frantic. Okay, but not great. AoM could have been better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 The editor is lacking Just because the editor only has one bridge, doesnt make it lacking;) And simiwz, even though the maps automatically adjust to the # of people (which is a major plus), large map 1v1 are still quite expansive and small map 6v6 are about as crunched as it should be (overlapping towns suck). Another thing (and i can confirm this), the speed is a tad faster than normal in SWGB. Just because you have the reflexes of a drugged up snail doesnt mean we all do. I have no trouble clicking on moving units. Arthur, heres a hint, each culture has their own unit set, and each civ has their own really different bonuses. I personally dont like the way the Greeks do their econ or their armies (its too much like AoK for me). There are about 4x as many units in the real game than the ones you mentioned. I find the Greek civs not very exciting. I only played Eygptians civs and Norse civs in the alpha. I have no idea why they choose Zeus to be the god in the demo. Out of all the gods, he is the most boring and the most like AoK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 I think i have a defective demo version (or is the game supposed to lag in the history menu?) Oh well i am going to go buy the game tomorrow anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 I think you have a defective computer. And I actually don't mind the speed for MP games, but sometimes (especially in single player) I want a less frantic type of game. They should at least give the option. More options = Good. It seems they believe the average consumer is not intelligent enough to select their own map sizes, speed, etc, so they dumbed it down. They clearly don't want moron n00bs complaining about long games when they play 1v1 on a massive map, so they simply don't allow it (and many other combos). Not a good move, ES! And... I played a MP game today. It lagged periodically. It was 2v2, and 1 person from each team had 56k. Me and the other person had adsl. The host had 56k and 2.2 GHz athlon, 512 RAM, Geforce 4. And it still lagged. My impression of the game right now is that it is a bit ahead of its time. Sith, you told me that AoM was less dependant on connection speed, so there was no reason for there to be lag. Confirm your normal+ all you like, Sith. I am perfectly capable of clicking. Remember that on an 18" LCD I see the units in a location 35 milliseconds later than they really are, and I would have expected them to have some slower and faster speed options for no more reason than SOME PEOPLE LIKE IT THAT WAY, AND IT'S AN OPTION, SO WHY THE HELL NOT? Just because it is not the way you would play the game does not mean it is n00bish or the person has no reflexes. It is sad how you think they way you play a game is the only correct way. This "one bridge" in the editor is a rickety wooden piece of ****, a fixed size, and cannot go over water. If there is another then it is very skillfully hidden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 I know your gonna laugh, but i think i found the problem. I forgot to uninstall the alpha:o. Im currently re-dling and installing the trial w/o the alpha. Lets see what happens. I posted this problem on AoMH, but no one could find the solution. I tell you if it works:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Sith, Bulzye was playing AoM today on my computer and he was having trouble clicking on moving villagers. Seems I'm not the only one who wants a slower speed option. When a game has as good graphics as AoM has I would rather not play it on my smaller CRT... I could click a bit easier but it just wouldn't be the same as a big bright high contrast LCD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 All i can say is that i have no problem clicking on units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 Who knows... maybe all the units go slower on your Pentium 3. Though I can click on units just fine... but Bulzye was having some trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur2 Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 Pentium 3... I have a P3-1Ghz it runs just fine but then I have a crappy video card , TNT2 it laggs like hell when I play 3D strategy games Sith u are right about the zeus and it's not even AOK in AOK u got more options, the Greek is more like AOE they should have used the Egyptians as the trial version race so ppl experience something DIFFERENT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 I take it you haven't looked at a AoKTC forum recently. Most people are saying that they wish AoM was more like AoC, Anyone who's played AoM get hocked. It's obivous logic to put on a civ that's like AoC but still different enough. People who have played AoM like it to be different, but die hard AoCers hate changes. I mean why didn't they come play CC, which is blatantly a much better game. I mean AoC once you get past 1850 it's all Arabia, Normal speed and a possibility of one whole stratergy, Boring! SWGB had far more Strats and possibilitys as does AoC. Give AoC fans what they like, an AoC civ and slowly they will like it loads and not even think of AoC again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 Honestly I havent looked at a AoC forum for over a year now, but we get the people you are talking on AoM forums, b!$#@ing about how they should have just made a AoC in 3d. They're part of the reason SWGB and AoM have so much variation, people were complaining that the "experts" werent really experts becausewere only good on one map with one civ and one strat. They had no adaptablility. And the fact that they dont want to have to let go of their feudal skirm wars and flushes just furthers the point. Even Zeus is is too different for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Originally posted by Arthur2 it runs just fine but then I have a crappy video card , TNT2 it laggs like hell when I play 3D strategy games Hey Sith, isn't that the same kind of video card that you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Actually its a TNT M64 Pro:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Eh. I'm really not sure what to say. Maybe I should just go talk to the drunken monkeys for a while..... they're sure to speak to me in a language I understand. Ah, but soon, I shall be d/ling the AoM trial, and THEN I can actually talk with you people INTELLIGIBLY! (sp?) Oh, I'm a tusken. They're ugly. Eh. Edit: Drunken is not spelt Drunkey. Though Drunkey Monkeys sounds kinda cool. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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