ArtifeX Posted October 15, 2002 Author Share Posted October 15, 2002 Originally posted by Xzzy ... I like promod a lot, but with the enhanced blocking system granted via CSC, the situation in large scale melees is even worse.. you almost never kill anyone intentionally, the only way they die is if they walk into your saber after it gets parried. If nimble feet were treated as the best defense one could have, the issue of a blocking key would be nonexistant. From what I understand of medieval swordplay, most of fighting did NOT involve swords banging together and making pretty sparks. Swords were hideously expensive, and hitting your edge against someone else's sword was a really good way to ruin the edge. Most of sword combat revolved around just plain not getting hit.. parries were usually acts of desperation. Does it make sense to do that in a game? Ie, is it fun? I dunno for sure. It seems like the groundwork is already there for promoting a nimble-foot defense and it works well for a skilled player. So I guess the question is to decide whether more blocks would be a good thing, or less blocks would be a good thing. What you're suggesting sounds a lot like how saber combat worked in jk1. There, saber combat was a bit more like a joust with players circling and darting at each other, hoping to catch the other player with his timing not quite right. You've got the same option in jk2 already. You can just move to stay out of range of whatever swing comes your way. Taking the blocking out of jk2 completely would be removing one defensive option from the player's repertoire. The blocking of 1.04 is completely over the top. You block nearly everything. I've seen simple private duels go on for 8, 10 or even 15 minutes due to this. Promod's blocking is much, much less frequent, and is totally dependent on your aim and that of your opponent. If you're finding that both players are blocking a lot, then that's only because they're evenly matched. Someone with excellent aim will tear apart a target who tends to let their crosshair stray. Make sure to drop by this Thursday. I've started a regular match night in my server for experienced players and those who are new to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost8_again Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 (I would love to here about the source:) In regards to the SF2 example u are right in some ways. ALthough essentially, it makes the point of progressive hit frame detection/ prediction. If a player stands idle, moves, or actually swings then the puter(com) makes the determination of what happens next(won't go into ex's)So in theory, swings can actually be a means of blocking(the way swords do)if 2 players were idle(take a guess)but the way JK2 does it, everytime 2 swings clash at the same point of their progress a clash occurs(???) That was my main point, but it is VERRRRRYYY different in 3D(and while moving:) Originally posted by ArtifeX The blocking of 1.04 is really screwy. It defies description until you pore through the source code. Not sure that SF2 would be the best example of blocking for a 3d shooter. Problem is that you need to be able to block and move at the same time. SF2 forced you to stay still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted October 16, 2002 Author Share Posted October 16, 2002 Originally posted by Deetox187 Ok heres a few pics to give you an idea, i'll try to find more later if i can. Basically the edges of the core should be straight and the tip rounded off. Ask, and ye shall receive! This work for ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deetox187 Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 Wow that looks really good nice job, you work pretty fast lol. I think the tip could still use a bit of touchup though, the roundness is looking good but is it possible to make that little nub on the end where you edited it a little less visible? probably not since all the custom sabers seem to suffer from that, but maybe you can fiddle with it a bit.. Also its kind of hard to tell from the pics but is the core still transparent like it was originally? in the movies you can't see through the core at all. Anywho i dug up some more pics for ya, don't know if you still need them but here they are anyways. http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0121765/EP2_IA_69836_R.jpg http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0121765/EP2_IA_68541_R.jpg http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0121765/EP2_IA_69788_R.jpg http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0120915/EP1_IA_29513_R.jpg http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0120915/EP1_IA_37464_R.jpg http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/130/009_221-003.jpg http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/130/009_221-002.jpg http://www.starwars.com/episode-i/snapshot/2001/08/img/26041_bg.jpg http://www.starwars.com/episode-i/snapshot/2001/05/img/39222_bg.jpg http://www.starwars.com/episode-i/snapshot/2000/11/img/36980_bg.jpg http://www.starwars.com/episode-i/snapshot/2000/07/img/11784r_bg.jpg http://charliemartel.reallyrules.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xzzy Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 artifex's sabers look just fine, i think the only reason they don't look exactly like the movie ones is that there's more of the color halo at the tip than is in the movies, which alters the look slightly. The in-game sabers are thinner than the movie ones as well, however you should also realize that in-game these sabers are constantly moving around and the motion blur code makes them look a lot thicker. artifex's sabers look quite long as well, though that could be an artifact of camera positioning. And I'm not sure we'd want to screw with game balance by modifying saber length, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deetox187 Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 I totally agree they look fine, i'd be perfectly happy with them the way they are now, my nitpicks are very minor. I also agree it is crucial to maintain the proper length, i have used other custom sabers in the past that were a little short or long and it does affect your perception of its range when you swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acdcfanbill Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 They look good ArtifeX, and thanks for clearing up the whole inner and outer glow issue for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted October 16, 2002 Author Share Posted October 16, 2002 The little tip blur is really tricky. The opengl shader they use apparently gives a vertical blur to whatever artwork you put in for the cores. I've got an idea or two that might get rid of it. I'll post later if it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syfo-Dyas Posted October 19, 2002 Share Posted October 19, 2002 Originally posted by DanVan Someone, please tell me I am imagining this, that suddenly everyone will play it when it leaves beta or that there is a hidden server of joy, full of low ping promod lovers near me. Hey ArtifeX, There's a good name for your server! "The Hidden Server of Joy" I know it sounds like the title of a Star Trek episode, but it has a nice ring to it... It also kinda sounds like a good title for an Asian porn video... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lathain Valtiel Posted October 19, 2002 Share Posted October 19, 2002 For the love of God, NO, NO Ep 1 or 2 sabers! It is my strong opinion that they are vastly less good looking than the sabers of the Original Trilogy. Well, you COULD maybe make a menu to swap between the core designs.... I don't think you should make a core color changer though.. By the way, can we get ppure black/white sabers with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted October 19, 2002 Author Share Posted October 19, 2002 Originally posted by MMXP For the love of God, NO, NO Ep 1 or 2 sabers! It is my strong opinion that they are vastly less good looking than the sabers of the Original Trilogy. Well, you COULD maybe make a menu to swap between the core designs.... I don't think you should make a core color changer though.. By the way, can we get ppure black/white sabers with this? I'll just have the once choice for the saber artwork this time around. Might add the option to toggle between the jk2 and ep2 sabers later. I've got a plan to make opaque black and other dark saber colors possible, but I'm not putting it into Beta 3. Probably Beta 4 (if Beta 4 turns out to be a beta version and not the final version, that is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lathain Valtiel Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 So you're keeping the Ep2 sabers as the only choice for now...? Blech... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taboo Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 So you're keeping the Ep2 sabers as the only choice for now...? Blech... OMG, there's input and then there's whining .... blech. Can't wait for beta 3 to come out. Pretty hard to find a promod ffa game at the moment but I've been abusing my bots horribly with Promod and loving it. Keep it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syfo-Dyas Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 This was insteresting: I decided to go online the other night and wrestle the bots on a ProMod server. I'll bet I was on for an hour or so. During that time, I'll bet 10-15 people logged on, saw bots, and immediately logged off. I understand perfectly well that they wanted to play against humans, but heres the thing. If they had each stayed on from 1 to 5 minutes they would have seen another human player log on. That would make 3 total. Add another1 to 5 minutes, and you'd have 4 players. We could have had a bunch of players. But instead, each of them logged off within 5 seconds of logging on, and nobody probably got to play ProMod against humans. It was a bit of a bummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted October 21, 2002 Author Share Posted October 21, 2002 Originally posted by Syfo-Dyas This was insteresting: I decided to go online the other night and wrestle the bots on a ProMod server. I'll bet I was on for an hour or so. During that time, I'll bet 10-15 people logged on, saw bots, and immediately logged off. I understand perfectly well that they wanted to play against humans, but heres the thing. If they had each stayed on from 1 to 5 minutes they would have seen another human player log on. That would make 3 total. Add another1 to 5 minutes, and you'd have 4 players. We could have had a bunch of players. But instead, each of them logged off within 5 seconds of logging on, and nobody probably got to play ProMod against humans. It was a bit of a bummer. Hopefully, once i release beta 3 later this week jkii.net will give me some front page press. If the server admins are quick to update their servers, then it should then be much easier to find a busy server. I sure wish Raven/Lucasarts would do something to raise the awareness of the mod scene. Progress Report: I'm about halfway done with the gun/saber balance code. I've got several pieces of it in the game and working properly. I should still be on target for a Thursday night release, so I'll probably use this week's Fight Night (Thurs. 8:30pm EST) as an opportunity to privately test this release with some of you guys. If you think you'll be around in the evenings this week and want to be a tester, then contact me at arsartifex@msn.com. You can also add that email address to msn messenger if you have it. As I've been coding this, I'm becoming more and more convinced that this is the way the original game should have been. Once I'm done, a player should be able to play with guns or just a saber and having a fighting chance either way. Ultimately, two players of equal skill level should be able to be able to fight each other to nearly a tie every time. At least, that's the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Shaft Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 heh, at this point, all I care about is seeing your new force power. Admittedly, I've been a huge fan of force powers, and have always wished that someone would make a game that relied on using your force powers a good deal more to both survive and fight, kind of like an energy management system or something. However, that's probably too involved for an fps, but also not nearly as rpg like enough for something like knights of the republic, plus I don't want to rpg, I want to fps fight. Anyways, i've been waiting for thursday now for a long time. Beta 2 got saber combat to something that I had envisioned for the initial release but did not get. Kudos to those who have endured and excelled at basejk and it's multiple transformations, I can vouch that in the end I found all of them a little flat to my own expected tastes. The test of time has shown that people enjoy either a complete basejk game where it is accepted that the game is centered around, but not completely reliant, on guns, or an incomplete game (aka sabers only) where blocking is almost random, and saber swings are slowed down for certain styles, and the damage calls a person into a fight resembles more Street Fighter series than a fast and furious sword fight. Bad game, no, but not a game I'm interested in. Hopefully Beta 3 will prove that Artifex has more up his sleeve than an adjustment for random blocking and low damage. Since it's Monday, I guess I'll give you one more chance to spill the beans about that new force power, Artifex. I'm obsessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lathain Valtiel Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 I am so deathly interested in this new Force.. Neutral, used more than Push and Pull possibly? Hard to decide what it COULD be... Grapple power? Neutral bolt of telekinesis that does damage (in my dreams, I could see that hurting gunners for pure saberists...)... I'm quite frankly on edge. EDIT: On that note.. Taboo, what, I can't express my revulsion for such a change? I found the rounded tip very bad actually... Just an opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Its called "Force Curiosity" and its a nuetral force that gets all you people to play ProMod. Pretty cool huh. Next I'll tell you about my secret force power that appears after you clean my garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lathain Valtiel Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 *Has a weak mind, is enthralled by the new Force, drool hangs from lips like some deranged madman* Seriously now, I'm hoping it will be an attack. I notice a disturbing lack of true attacks in the Neutral list, which I say is a nono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerowingzero Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Heh, i know what the force power is, for quite some time now, and belive me, what will really get people to play promod will be the balance system, lotsa work went into it and it should pay off well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Hehe I knew about the new force long ago too. I agree that the balancing will be a bigger deal. I still can't wait to use it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted October 23, 2002 Author Share Posted October 23, 2002 All of the core logic for the balance system is done. All that remains is to alter the UI to support it (no mean task). I must say it's pretty cool to run around in a level with the balance code working correctly. Playing with the new weapon/item options is pretty tight. I have a feeling that there's going to be a lot of happy gunners and saberists out there. Once the UI changes are finished, I'm going to have to code the new force power. I have no idea if I'm going to be able to get that finished in time and properly tested for the thursday night public release. I'm looking at the possibility of sending http://www.athenagt.net a "ProMod Beta 3 Preview" version for their tournament this weekend that will not include the new force power. It all just depends on how quickly the UI changes go. Sure am glad that I gained some familiarity with the UI doing the RGB sabers. I'd like to see Beta 3 get released with the new jetpack. It's really a compliment to the balance system. Which would you guys rather see? The new power, or the new jetpack? Or, I could hold off the public release until they're both in. sleep, need sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 I say you keep it pure and just release the Beta 3 wiithout any fancy stuff. Just the core gaming. Then release your ProMod variety pack! That would include your Jet Pack and all the other fancy stuff you wish to add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerowingzero Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 I personally would rather see the new force power as it changes a certain aspect of jk2, while if somone wanted to see a jet pack that mod is always available, non-atifex coded style. The force power will affect gameplay more than the jetpack would. I really wouldent mind the release being delayed, but i'm sure a lot of jk2 players are really expecting the thursday release. Next time to specify a date! The pressure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Shaft Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Well, whatever you decide, it's your call. do what's comfortable for you. I'm excited, but I won't die if you're too busy perfecting the game. I'd rather see a product that is more finished than one that's about a day or two behind. Also, it'll probably confuse the hell out of some people. Not everyone is 'keeping up' on promod news and development, and so when beta 3 gets released, that's probably all what a majority of players are going to bother downloading. Also, better that you have the cool features in than not. As much as I love the core, it's obvious that other players aren't so keen on it. They want that jedimod feel. If you had to choose between jetpack and force, I'd say give the force. The jetpack isn't new, and while i'm sure you balanced it for gameplay, I guess I'd just rather not be faced with the prospect of an entire promod server full of jetpackers. Plus, I'd like to see this 'game changing force power'. If you don't get around to either, at least someone just tell me what it is and what it does so I can pretend in my mind that I'm using it, cuz i'M cRaZy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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