El Sitherino Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 the samurai coruption happend when a japanese emporer became corrupt and as did the samurai and thats when the ninja started (ninja are rogue samurai who after the mass corruption fought for justice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotchy Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 Originally posted by Enjoi9187 actually, then that would mean that obi wan held it incorrectly all the time, because at the duel of the fates, when he is running to catch up with qui gon and and gets stuck behind the red laser, he runs just like in the game. Obi-Wan was portrayed as a n00b in Episode 1... look at how many times he twirlies his saber for no good reason. He isn't a very good example of correct jedi form. But what you said about episode 2 is acceptable I suppose... except they were moving quite a bit differently than the raven skeleton runs. Raven's skeleton runs like jogging... it looks bad to me, too basic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Kitty Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Well I don't know about you guy's but my mod as er.......new ani's. Sort of. I looked at the animations then stoped them at certian frames. I get good results. I even made a half-ass Ninja animation were he hold it behind his back. It was AWSOME. May even fix it so that's it is in the mod. Hheheh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enjoi9187 Posted October 8, 2002 Author Share Posted October 8, 2002 Originally posted by Scotchy Obi-Wan was portrayed as a n00b in Episode 1... look at how many times he twirlies his saber for no good reason. Well, if you look at qui gon in the first battle scene, obi says, "Master, droidekas." and both he and qui gon do this stupid little spin around thing to fight them. What im saying is that they never learned a way to "run" like samari's did, so they run pretty much however they would like as long as they dont hurt themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enjoi9187 Posted October 8, 2002 Author Share Posted October 8, 2002 darth, in ur mod, can u make it like a cvar or something, cause i like running the other way too and im sure some other people dont mind it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-s/<itzo- Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 darth kitty is your mod out yet??? if not do you have a site for it. just wanna check it out. i'm looking for something new. what else did you change?? you think if its possible to make the butterfly kick as an attack instead of a roll. like an emote or something. it would make sense that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Kitty Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Way ahead of you dude! The roll as well as the back roll and forward roll are changed to awsome acro stuff. The Left and Right rolls are now yes....butterfly's. Way ahead of you. LOL Alot of stuff is changed......alot. I will post pics soon and a tralier. The web site....no I am still thinking about it. The mod. No. It's not out yet. Maybe a beta (not the closed beta, but the TRUE BETA) will be out.....November 11. My birthday. I will post an update right now at my thread. Bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matariel Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 the jedi ARE samurai...the samurai of fuedal japan were exactly like what the jedi are, a band of 'police' keeping peace and order throughout the empire (thats the japanese empire), just the same as the jedi did whithin the republic...and by the way, the jedi stance they use when duelling (lightsabers) is the same as a samurai sword (two handed, blade pointed outwards at about 45 degree angle) just watch crouching tiger, im sure lucas got inspiration (at least for the prequels) from hong kong theatre type swordfights, hell hes a fan of kirisawa's films, and they're right up that alley back on topic... There will always be little tricks like this to 'fake' animation, but it will not be fool proof...and even if we do get our hands on the animation source (its apparently about 400 megs!) who will know how to use it? i dont know of how many of you have tried to hand animate even a simple walk cycle- NOT EASY!! they used mo-cap stuff in the jk2 animations because of the many complex animations used, so i doubt we'll ever get something as good as that and PS. the ninja were not breakaway samurai, they were a different kettle of fish altogether. ninjas were an elite band of assasins employed by the leaders of each house (daimyos) to assasinate their enimies etc...you're probably thinking of the ronin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enjoi9187 Posted October 9, 2002 Author Share Posted October 9, 2002 Originally posted by Matariel the jedi ARE samurai...the samurai of fuedal japan were exactly like what the jedi are, a band of 'police' keeping peace and order throughout the empire (thats the japanese empire), just the same as the jedi did whithin the republic...and by the way, the jedi stance they use when duelling (lightsabers) is the same as a samurai sword (two handed, blade pointed outwards at about 45 degree angle) just watch crouching tiger, im sure lucas got inspiration (at least for the prequels) from hong kong theatre type swordfights, hell hes a fan of kirisawa's films, and they're right up that alley Actually, Lucas had no say in the game except to make sure stuff doesnt go outside star wars boundaries, he is a part of lucasfilms which has nothing to do with lucasarts. Second of all, that would mean policemen, seals, and the army are all "jedi" because from what i know, they protect peace throught the galaxy too (america) so basically jedi are jedi, yeah maybe ideas were taken from other stuff but im sure the lucasarts team didnt study samurai's and motion capture according to how a samarui would hold a sword. That is like saying that in diehard or something they TAUGHT bruce how to hold a gun properly to stay within "cop" status Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enjoi9187 Posted October 9, 2002 Author Share Posted October 9, 2002 Originally posted by Matariel back on topic... There will always be little tricks like this to 'fake' animation, but it will not be fool proof...and even if we do get our hands on the animation source (its apparently about 400 megs!) who will know how to use it? i dont know of how many of you have tried to hand animate even a simple walk cycle- NOT EASY!! Have you seen some of the animations from the polycount board that ARENT motion captured? they are very good and im sure that most people who model this stuff would be able to get some help from the polycount board, considering that they are pretty high up in rank over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matariel Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 huh? what have you been drinking boy! youve completely misunderstood my point...this has nothing to do with lucasarts or raven, Lucas himself decided on how the jedi should fight, based upon kirisawa films he saw...raven simply used that style in the mo-cap and what are you talking about?? the american military are far from jedi...jedi stand for peace and justice, and try to resolve disputes through peaceful negociation. Besides my use of the word 'police' was just to illustrate their function in society...the republic (okay, star wars universe now) had armies and such, but the jedi were different, a kind of police force get it now? and PS.. no amatuer modeller could possibly have access to motion capture equipment to make custom animations, its simply too expensive(about $10000 for a modest setup)...maybey if your university has some you can use, but either way its very hard to get access to stuff like that...i dont care how good the animations look on polycount, they're all hand made, which is cooler cos the animator can show off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Kitty Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 You guy's are er.....wrong. They didn't use motion capture. They hired House of Moves for SOFII as you can tell by there animations in the game. JKII animations are pretty sh*ty. I mean, when you swing up with the sab (SO TO BE KATANA! WORLD PERMIERE NOVEMBER 11! MG:TEA MOD! ..................heheh............sorry............)er, it cut's the arms. Also you never heard of them doing that for JKII. I mean, EVERY DEVELOPER promots that they did if they did. I didn't see that on JKII advertisments. Only SOFII and SOF..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShogunBlade Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 ok... well we have seen in 5 movies why jk2 is a bit un realistic... hasnt it occured to you people that every time foce is used in the movies it is thru either closed eyes or half lidded eyes... or when vader made peices of machinery smack that wuss luke upside the noggin... or even when maul used force push.. he had to stop moving and concentrate.. the deal is this... if palpatine could have ran around throwing lightning he would have never needed the chosen one.. or if vader could death grip while swinging a saber omg... you see.. the force flows through you and you must concentrate to draw from that power its not so simple as to point your hands and stuff flys or lightning shoots off... they have made it very dramatic in the films that it takes some focus to do this stuff that was why vader stopped swinging his saber at luke.. he wanted to soften him up with metal parts so he had to concentrate.. and if you thought that the emperor had bad ash skills... think about the power used to rip machinery from plasteel walls.. vader was wayyyy more powerful.. thing was and the tone lucas is setting suggests that even mighty anakin skywalker has been nothing but a slave his whole life.. to watto.. to the jedi order.... and to the emperor.. thats my whole take on this situation... this is why i dont mess with force in games where dueling is concerned.. because yes while force push is possible in a duel it requires more concentration that what is suggested in this game.. however to keep up with the action i guess raven decided that all dark and light jedi are uber after the fall of the empire... i mean look at what jerec did in jk1.. he tossed explosive balls of force at people... in a nut shell i guess im sayin that a realistic (as realistic as fictional characters can be) jedi or sith would have to concentrate to pull off most stuff in game... the only powers that should be used in a duel is leap.. push and pull... when the saber is ignited.... when the saber is not ignited because yes there is some force usage in saber handling otherwise some jedi fanatic wannabe coulda picked up a saber and been just as bad as any jedi... but when the saber is in i think the force powers should be used with a slight delay... as per movies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShogunBlade Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 while yes the starwars saga is based loosley on a japanese story... the jedi are NOT samurai... the jedi did not go choppin off foriegners heads when they landed on coruscant.. the do not commit seppuku (killing themselves in shame) they do not own slaves... samurai were hardly just and kind.. if any of you had done any reading or studying of the subject you would know that samurai were as cold blooded as any nazi and thier social graces left alot to be desired.. the only thing fuedal japan has to offer the minds of the masses is a fiction look at the japanese cops.. ie samurai they were a cross between knights and nobles and thier life span wasnt very great... Jedi are much more peace minded than they Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matariel Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 the jedi are BASED on samurai, dont take me too literally...but they do chop people's heads off (<cough> jango) Take a look at a model in the model viewer, and run thru all the animations, you'll see that the animations are too good to be simply keyframed. Also, take a look at the secondary animation (thats all the stuff that the 'character' is doing, but not intentionally) like the foot movements during a lightsaber swing, or the way the arms swing about during a roll or acrobatic move, that kind of stuff is extremely hard to keyframe in so it looks realistic. (and if the animations dont match up with the mesh properly, like as you say with the backstab, that is a result of the mo-cap process and applying the same animations to every model in the game) Solution? motion capture its simple why mo-cap for soldier of fortune, where they have very basic moves (erm...running and shooting??) and not JK2, where its much more complicated! And by the way, the movies frequently show fully trained jedi pulling off some pretty cool moves with just a wave of the hand, so i dont know what you're on about with the whole 'realism' thing...anikin and luke must concentrate because they're still learning...yoda had to concentrate because he was lifting an X-wing for christs sake! Also, youve been reading too many star wars books, i only treat the stuff i see in the movies as 'true', all the novels are rubbishy additions to a story that should stay finished as it is. You say that people who are not jedi, or dont have the force cant weild a lightsaber, well what about Han in empire strikes back? They never said anything like that in the movies so your statements about who can use a saber just dont hold true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gram_Reaper Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 Hey guys, lets not start a big flaming war. We all can base that jedi are based off something, but who cares. I dont think it really matters in the modeling forums. But the force can be used like it can in jk2. If you dont know jedi are always using the force while fighting. They use it to predict their opponents moves and feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enjoi9187 Posted October 16, 2002 Author Share Posted October 16, 2002 Originally posted by ShogunBlade ok... well we have seen in 5 movies why jk2 is a bit un realistic... hasnt it occured to you people that every time foce is used in the movies it is thru either closed eyes or half lidded eyes... What about when maul threw the debris in the MIDDLE of a battle to open the door in DOTF. Or the fact that obi wan and qui gon both used force speed WHILE using the force to weild their sabers and reflect the droideka's shots back at them (and it does require force as pointed out in SOTE and some other UT books) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matariel Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 sorry, i didnt mean to 'flame' (but my last post was a bit of an essay), i just got into the samurai thing because of the animation, the samurai fighting style is used by the jedi a well trained jedi can use the force with little effort, deflecting lasers, throwing things around etc... but i dont pay any attention to the books, just what i see in the movies- and in the movies they frequently use the force without stopping, closing their eyes or whatever you say they do, so jk2 is true to the movies (kyle afterall is a pretty good jedi, not trained much but 'the force is strong with him') keep smiling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShogunBlade Posted October 16, 2002 Share Posted October 16, 2002 yoda had to concentrate because he was lifting an X-wing for christs sake! ummm size matters not remember... ok i will try to clarify so this silly flame can be extinguished... yes maul did point down turn his head and flip his finger to the control panel... and as i said earlier in one of my posts that push pull and force jump were used in jedi fighting... obiwan and qui gon used force speed to elude the droideka's laser deflection with a saber falls under the saber usage 101 handbook you will find that ALL jedi can do this to some degree... no i do not read expanded universe books.. that is not lucas's vision.. his company merely said ok you can write about our characters but i have the reserved right to alter anything i want because i am george lucas... for all you samurai activists out there read Shogun... it will shed a whole new and historic light on the samurai... and as far as new animations go.. i didnt think it was possible without something like maya 3 or sumjunk one more thing.... luke and anakin both are supposed to be the best of the best as far as jedi go.. meaning thier sensitivity was supposed to be extrordinary.. luke more so than anakins.. still not convinced that maybe anakin gets cloned by the emperor... anyway thats my two copper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matariel Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 anikin cloned? where the heck did you hear that?? this is what im talking about, people adding random crap to the star wars storyline!! if it is not said in plain english in any of the movies, its not true, simple as that...star wars was not meant to be read into that much, its really a simple story...they just explain a chance meeting like that as 'the will of the force' etc etc and by the way, new animation will be possible if you wanna reanimate the models using XSI (like raven did), but thats a long and bitchy process unless you have access to a multi thousand dollar mo-cap rig, simple as that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enjoi9187 Posted October 18, 2002 Author Share Posted October 18, 2002 Originally posted by ShogunBlade yoda had to concentrate because he was lifting an X-wing for christs sake! ummm size matters not remember... ok i will try to clarify so this silly flame can be extinguished... yes maul did point down turn his head and flip his finger to the control panel... and as i said earlier in one of my posts that push pull and force jump were used in jedi fighting... obiwan and qui gon used force speed to elude the droideka's laser deflection with a saber falls under the saber usage 101 handbook you will find that ALL jedi can do this to some degree... no i do not read expanded universe books.. that is not lucas's vision.. his company merely said ok you can write about our characters but i have the reserved right to alter anything i want because i am george lucas... for all you samurai activists out there read Shogun... it will shed a whole new and historic light on the samurai... and as far as new animations go.. i didnt think it was possible without something like maya 3 or sumjunk one more thing.... luke and anakin both are supposed to be the best of the best as far as jedi go.. meaning thier sensitivity was supposed to be extrordinary.. luke more so than anakins.. still not convinced that maybe anakin gets cloned by the emperor... anyway thats my two copper anakin being cloned? i REALLY think if that happens it would make TONS of star wars fans become star trek fans, because finding out that the one and only known darth vader is a clone? that would piss me off, and im a HUGE star wars fan. And that would TOTALLY offset all of the EU books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darsha_x1 Posted October 20, 2002 Share Posted October 20, 2002 alot of jedis do alot of fast swinging and fancy twriling , the fighting stances and the way u fight with the saber sux "BAD" there needs to be more twriling and faster moves , would that be possable to make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tim Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Originally posted by ShogunBlade for all you samurai activists out there read Shogun... it will shed a whole new and historic light on the samurai... Kind of, but not really. Shogun gives quite a Western interpretation of Japanese history. You'd be better off reading something like Taiko by Eiji Yoshikawa (and which incidentally coincides with the name I use in-game), or Musashi by the same author. Anyhow, on this whole topic: George Lucas asked the conceptual artists that Darth Vader's costume, etc be inspired by the look of samurai armour. The idea of jedi as knights with an honour code, etc and cool swords takes some inspiration from samurai. However, samurai, at least by the 15th Century, were simply the elite and the warrior class in Japanese society. However, one of the guiding principles in bushido, the samurai 'code of honour' was about fighting hard and dying honourably in battle - not overly a jedi-like characteristic. Similarly, for a samurai, it was better to die in battle than be captured, which does not hold true for jedi. Jedi are there to uphold the peace; samurai were to fight and protect the honour of their masters without question. Also, Jedi wouldn't pursue a retreating army any ensure they killed as many as possible. Also, Jedi wouldn't cut off and display the heads of their dead opponents as a display of their success and honour in battle. Also Jedi don't seem to enjoy the right of taking the head of anyone below them in the societal structure for only the slightest reason, or for no reason at all. As for lightsabre fights, from what I remember of interviews with the stunt coordinator/swordmaster for the films, it's a combination of kendo with western styles of sword-fighting, not so much fencing as we see it now, but more rapier or a lighter two-handed sword. And Dooku's style is quite akin to fencing, like foil or epee maybe. All in all - some inspiration from samurai and Japanese flicks in Star Wars, but it's a bit simplistic to say that jedi ARE samurai; they're not an exact copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Originally posted by Mr Tim Similarly, for a samurai, it was better to die in battle than be captured, which does not hold true for jedi. All in all - some inspiration from samurai and Japanese flicks in Star Wars, but it's a bit simplistic to say that jedi ARE samurai; they're not an exact copy. This really is a topic for the Swamp, not for the modeling forum. If you wish to continue it further I suggest you move it there before a moderator closes this thread. However, in response to your post - in Episode 2, Mace says, "We will not be hostages to be bartered, Dooku." He knows at this point they can surrender and be captured, or die fighting. But perhaps this is just the exception to the rule you've posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellfire Jedi Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 I know this is a dead thread, please don't flame. Any possible way I could get those spiders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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