Masters of the Force: Release 1

[Alesh]

I tried the mod and I think it can be great (for now it doesn't have enough stuff to keep using it, but i'm sure i'm gonna end up using some later version) altough i found a little problem when shootting flechette's secondary fire: it seemed to impact in me (it exploded before even seeing the grenades or whatever they are)

 

Apart from this little problem (I've never liked this weapon anyway ) I've had some ideas:

 

Changes to saber blocking: I think it should spend dodge points (but less than a normal dodge, also dependant on defense level. like -25% lvl 1, -50% lvl 2, -75% lvl 3) and be used instead of the dodging animation when possible (when being attacked in a saber fight, for what i have tested, you dodge even if you could usually block the hit), also if you put in some kind of jedi vs merc kind of game mode, you could make it so the more force you ahve left, the lest dodging/blocking costs (maybe reducing the cost in 1/2 or 1/4 the % force you still have, or something like).

 

I'd change the lightsaber special moves, except the blue one: you must be already jumping to execute the move, and the move doesn't make you jump any more, you just do the superheavy slash in the direction you are currently jumping, or flip in mid air and do that weird yellow stance cut (unless of curse, it ends up making ppl fly like the blue one did).

 

I think the force powers would need some changes too to be more movie-like:

-You should be able to jump as high as your force allows (we've seen some really high jumps in the new movies), and something like if you pressed your jump button while falling, make it spend force to avoid damage (should spend something like the cost to jump at the same height, inspired by Mace Windu jumping to the arena).

-Being able to block force lightning with the lightsaber (no dodging) but maybe at normal dodge cost instead of the reduced blocking cost (or spending force instead).

-Some resistance to force powers (push, pull, grip...) depending on how much force you have left.

-Changing Absorption to be something like what Yoda does to Dooku's Lightning (you have to hold the button and aim to absorb things, lvl 1 should just cancel the power, lvl 2 should give you some force, and level 3 should reflect some of the effect).

[FenixDown]

...so can ya give us a hint about (or to unlock) this semi-secret easter egg?

[razorace]

Originally posted by Alesh

I tried the mod and I think it can be great (for now it doesn't have enough stuff to keep using it, but i'm sure i'm gonna end up using some later version) altough i found a little problem when shootting flechette's secondary fire: it seemed to impact in me (it exploded before even seeing the grenades or whatever they are)

Yeah, we just noticed that. Alt Fire for the Flechette isn't working in Release 1. It's a really easy fix thou. It'll be fine in Release 2.

Changes to saber blocking: I think it should spend dodge points (but less than a normal dodge, also dependant on defense level. like -25% lvl 1, -50% lvl 2, -75% lvl 3) and be used instead of the dodging animation when possible (when being attacked in a saber fight, for what i have tested, you dodge even if you could usually block the hit), also if you put in some kind of jedi vs merc kind of game mode, you could make it so the more force you ahve left, the lest dodging/blocking costs (maybe reducing the cost in 1/2 or 1/4 the % force you still have, or something like).

Actually, saber blocking will take Fatigue Points (FP) in the near future. FP will replace Force Points.

 

As for adjustable DP/FP costs, we've discussed this and we don't think it's a good idea. It makes things more complicated for the coders and the players, and it's not really nessicarily when we could just change the base DP costs. But anyway, FP will sort of be the feature you want; blocking, attacking, running, etc. will cost FP.

 

Dodge only occurs if you have already failed your block attempt and are going to take damage. We may or may not use saber block as Dodge. However. changing it would probably make it feel like you're losing DP for no reason.

I'd change the lightsaber special moves, except the blue one: you must be already jumping to execute the move, and the move doesn't make you jump any more, you just do the superheavy slash in the direction you are currently jumping, or flip in mid air and do that weird yellow stance cut (unless of curse, it ends up making ppl fly like the blue one did).

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I haven't messed with any of the actual saber move mechanics. I've only upped the damage.

I think the force powers would need some changes too to be more movie-like.....

Noted, all of those things are already planned.

[razorace]

Originally posted by FenixDown

...so can ya give us a hint about (or to unlock) this semi-secret easter egg?

Not right now. Once we've got a website up and running we'll post it on the site.

[Alesh]

Actually, saber blocking will take Fatigue Points (FP) in the near future. FP will replace Force Points.

 

As for adjustable DP/FP costs, we've discussed this and we don't think it's a good idea. It makes things more complicated for the coders and the players, and it's not really nessicarily when we could just change the base DP costs. But anyway, FP will sort of be the feature you want; blocking, attacking, running, etc. will cost FP.

 

Thats fine too

 

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I haven't messed with any of the actual saber move mechanics. I've only upped the damage.

 

That wouldn't be much of a change really, it would just change the way the moves are done, so they wouldn't be limited to just 1 exact move (ie you could jump forward and exec the yellow special while turning making something similar to the yellow special in SP) anyway it's not a big change and it might not work well (and some moves could look a little weird).

[razorace]

So, you want the team to restore the slight yellow special move varation found in MP? Or do you want new moves?

 

OH, you mean remove the movement lock on the specials. uuummmm, no. The saber code handles damage based on a simple touch = damage system. To remove the movement locks only turns certain moves into spin fests to maximize damage coverage.

 

Well, the plan is to add additional "Finishing Moves" at some point. We're going with the concept that there's no such thing as a truely "special" move in saber combat. If you make any move "better" than the others, people WILL spam it. All the saber moves will be even and fair in MotF.

 

Razor Ace

[razorace]

One more thing,and im not sure if its a bug.

 

I joined a MotF server,and all the elements were there(dodge etc),but there was no dodge meter in the top left.

 

So i left and went to another server that was running it,and low and behold,it was there. Is this just a glitch?

I'm not really sure what the problem is. Did you d/l and install the game before you playing that first time? MotF has some client components that are required for the Dodge Meter and some other things to work. I'm not sure if the autod/l runs these files on the first game or not. (AKA you may have to restart the game first.) OR maybe the server you were playing on had the game install in a non-standard folder.

 

What servers are running MotF and how do most of you people locate them? Filters?

[Alesh]

I wasn't speaking about turning around (which isn't that bad unless abused) but the movement (in the yellow special: jump up & a little forward while doing the move, in red: jump forward while doing the move), my idea was being able to control the moving direction and speed, the move should only make the model do the animation (and damage).

It would be something like doing an emote in mid air, it wouldn't change your jump or anything, you would just move in a strange way in mid-air (try breakdancing in mid-air, it looks weird but might show you what i mean).

[razorace]

Oh, ok. Well, I probably could disable the side strafe movement lock. Obviously, the ability to change the way you're pointing the saber couldn't be unlocked due to abuse. I'll mess with it when I get to it.

[ryudom]

whats an emote? you know you can already do a mid air medium special right? (in 1.04 anyway)

[razorace]

An emote is an animation that shows an expression, like waving to a person, nodding, etc. They're normally totally unimportant to gameplay.

[Hekx]

Lovely mod

 

The dodging does make it more like the movies since Luke does some dodging laser blasts in ROTJ on Jabbas Sail Barge and during the duel with Vader in ROTJ, there's some ducks and dodges there

 

Maybe if you implemented some of the features from JediMod (emotes / hilts / tck saber code) it would also be more like the movies since in basejk2 everyone has the same hilt and has limited colours while Jedi's hilts and sabers colours are personal to them. Plus emotes make the game more fun

 

Maybe you can also add the mod_skillmode command to the actual gameplay for instance: if someone got hit in the head with a saber; they would die. In JK2; it'd mostly do the same damage as if you hit them in the leg.

 

You may also want to add the ability to dismember hands / disable weapon hands so they are unable to shoot (Jango / Mace in EPII)

 

The possibilities are endless

 

I personally would like to see some of the JediMod features added to make the game more bright aswell as adding new features similar to the SW universe.

[Alesh]

Just a little question i have... what's the plan for force sight? I mean, seeing mine beams and dodging sniper fire is a lot less useful with the dodging system. Is it gonna do something else? (maybe lessen the dodge cost because you "see" the future and have more time to react?)

[razorace]

The hit location-based damage is planned but the current hitzone code is REALLY crappy. Until I install Herr's improved hitzone code, it's not worth doing. The current code is SO bad that you can hit a player in the back from the FRONT with the saber!

 

Weapon destruction is also planned but I haven't explored it yet.

 

However, maiming will remain a death only feature. There are too many gameplay/technical issues to make it work while being alive. The saber combat system isn't accurate enough to be able to aim for hand hits anyway. You're always out of the fight when you get maimed in the movies, anyway.

 

I'm going to type officially on the record here. THERE WILL BE NO CUT AND PASTE MODDING IN MOTF!

 

The objective isn't to be JediMod with Dodging. While JediMod is cool, it's really just a gimmack mod for JK2. The MotF has no intention of being the same way. This isn't a diss to Dest or the other JM/JP+/Forcemod modders. I really respect the things Dest, TCK, and others have done with the code.

 

We're aimming for new features that actually change the gameplay to be more movie-like. That means that emots, RGB sabers, sabers out of the ass, etc will be implimented when we can make them truely part of the gameplay, near the end of the project, or as we feel like it.

 

This doesn't mean that we aren't listening or enjoying your feedback. We just don't want people to expect us to bend over backwards to impliment stuff that screws up/has not relivence on the gameplay.

 

Thank you,

Razor Ace

[razorace]

Originally posted by Alesh

Just a little question i have... what's the plan for force sight? I mean, seeing mine beams and dodging sniper fire is a lot less useful with the dodging system. Is it gonna do something else? (maybe lessen the dodge cost because you "see" the future and have more time to react?)

 

That's a good question. We're still in the concept stage but the general plan is to replace Force Seeing with Force Sense which is basically represents your ability to use the Force to see/feel things that you can't normally see. How this will work in practice is still up to the design team debate.

[Alesh]

Well whatever it ends doing, judging by the name i'd say it should be a passive power (you dont need to activate it).

 

More questions:

 

What about heal? when 90% of the weapons kill you in 1 shot or don't hurt you at all it starts to be a little unuseful... the only idea i have about this one is making your dodge points recover at a faster rate or something like.

 

And drain? won't it be too useful? (if you turn force into fatigue points or whatever)

 

Some ideas:

 

Lightning: In the movies it doesn't seem to do damage really, it seems to stun people (it hurts but it seems like it would take some time to kill somebody with it), so i'd say it should destroy the target's fatigue points, slow him down, and when he's low on fatigue points, throw him to the ground , and maybe after the target reaches 0 start to hurt, but not too much, the main use for this should be to stun (dooku seems to be able to move the target of his lightning but i think this would be too much).

 

Drain: darining energy from blasters, wookie crossbows... (maybe even turning off a lightsaber for small periods of time?) and turning it into fatigue points is the only thing which i can think of (i think i read somewhere somebody does it in the expanded universe).

 

Grip: I've never seen a jedi gripped in any movie, so i think they are kind of inmune, so i'd make the effect of grip dependant on the reamining fatigue points (i'm guessing jedi would have more than an imperial admiral...).

 

Rage: seeing luke in RotJ i'd make it give you speed (only for slashes, not for running) and attacking without spending fatigue points (i'm not sure if attacking is gonna cost a lot, but it looks like something similar to this when luke hits vader repeatedly).

 

Mind trick: i can't really think of any way to putting it here and looking like in the movies, my only idea is to make it passive and counter Force Seeing (or Sense if you preffer).

 

Protection: like rage but free (cheaper?) dodging? I'm really unsure about this one, the only similar thing i can think of is vader stopping han's blaster with his hand, but i think it has more to do with his arm being robotic than his powers with the force (not to mention he's a sith...).

 

Absorption: as i said, must hold the button to be effective, turns the "incoming" force into fatigue points for you and maybe reflects the % which exceeds your fatigue limit to the attacker (lvl 1 33% converted/rflected, lvl 2 66% lvl 3 100%, maybe?).

 

Healing: I don't think theres anything similar in the movies, I'd stick to the faster fatigue regen idea (and maybe at lvl 2 and/or 3 some health regen too, although it won't be noticed a lot).

 

Force seeing: maybe it could enable some kind of radar, which has a diferent radius and shows diferent stuff depending on level (lvl 1: mines & det packs, short radius; lvl 2: other players, med radius; lvl 3: "slow" projectiles (missiles, thermal det, repeaters alt fire...), long radius).

 

Saber throw: I think the saber should take some time to throw, for now this hits faster than any of the blue style slashes.

[razorace]

Heal: Gone, HP shouldn't be recoverable in any sort of reasonable. And, it's basically useless with lethal weapon damage anyway. Probably replaced with a FP recovering "sit"/"Meditate" etc. "emot". Of course, you'll be totally open to attack while in this rest emot.

 

Rage: Gone, but "Call on the Dark Side" servers the same concept you suggested.

 

Absorb: probably replaced with some sort of general Force Skill for Force Power deflection. Not sure how this will work yet. We gotta have a setup so light-siders can deflect lightning, grip, etc.

 

Protection: Gone

 

Mind Trick: Probably just generate a noise whereever you point the crosshair.

 

Saber Toss: will act much more like as if you TOSSED the saber. Add a bit of a wind up, and make the saber drop to the ground on collision.

 

Anyway, I do agree with most of your assessment, a lot of that stuff is already planned to some degree.

[willum_10]

I just wanted to let you know man, I can't even play JK without your mod on anymore...thanks so much for this, and best of luck in the future improving on this already amazing mod and concept.

 

 

once again, thanks.

[C'jais]

Fantastic work thus far!

 

Blaster rifle/Bryar

 

I appreciate very much the work you have done to the bowcaster - it's really great now and actually feels useful now that the shot's speed have been upped considerably.

It appears you have done the same to the bryar and blaster, which is all fine and good.

However, the bryar is now just as good as the blaster: same attack speed (ROF), lethal damage (the blaster's may be slightly higher but that's irrelevant since it's very high in the first place) and same shot speed. The Bryar has become the blaster, the blaster previous advantage of increased rate of fire is now negated, making me prefer the bryar any day.

 

Increase the rate of fire on the blaster, make it superior to the bryar, make it more of a "basic weapon" than the bryar. It doesn't help either that it costs more to fire the blaster in ammo.

 

In short: The blaster rifle should be the basic weapon of most gunners IMHO - true movie/SW style.

 

DEMP

 

The DEMP gun is lethal. Very lethal. It's shots cannot be blocked, making it a futile effort to close the distance to a gunner wielding this weapon as a saber wielding jedi: the dodge animation will continually disrupt any action you make, be it moving, attacking or even trying to pull the damn thing out of his hands.

 

This is a general problem with most guns in this mod - spamming the enemy will cause him to dodge and stop him firmly in his tracks - the dodging animation becomes more of a hindrance than a help, since you cannot move closer or attack the gunner.

 

No saber parrying

 

Another problem closely connected with this is, is that you rarely block shots with your saber now - it seems as if the jedi is content with letting the dodging do its work, and forgetting to use his saber, which doesn't drain force. I don't know what causes this, but I suspect it to be that its a vastly lowered blocking radius' fault. The answer might just be to increase the blocking radius, which means dodging will only be used for shots that are coming from the side or behind. A jedi shouldn't need to dodge blaster shots from the front - in the movies they solely use their saber for protecting the front.

 

Sabercombat (no dodging)

 

When it's saber vs saber combat, however, the dodging is rarely used - I just played an hour of FFA with bots, and not a single time did they dodge attacks in sabercombat. More dodging in sabercombat (though not as much as when currently facing a gunner), a little less blocking to mix the two.

 

Another gripe with sabercombat is that it's über lethal. Enemies fall like flies before a single swipe of yellow stance. I don't know what you meant with "sabercombats shouldn't last 30 seconds" -but for me, they don't even last 10 seconds.

 

That is all, I can see you're on the right track, and I really hope you continue improving this great mod

[razorace]

Originally posted by willum_10

I just wanted to let you know man, I can't even play JK without your mod on anymore...thanks so much for this, and best of luck in the future improving on this already amazing mod and concept.

Woah! First groupie. Sweet!

[razorace]

Originally posted by Cjais

Fantastic work thus far!

 

Blaster rifle/Bryar

 

Increase the rate of fire on the blaster, make it superior to the bryar, make it more of a "basic weapon" than the bryar. It doesn't help either that it costs more to fire the blaster in ammo.

 

In short: The blaster rifle should be the basic weapon of most gunners IMHO - true movie/SW style.

Well, there were some balance issues with the secondary fire on the blaster. With the boosted bolt speeds, secondary fire would actually hit the player faster than they could react/saber block. Death was near instantanous after you started hitting the target. We've been discussing if we should go to a semi-auto gun triggering system (manual trigger pulling but with an added accuracy penalty for movement/rapid firing) but there's nothing final yet. There's also an issue of the rifle/pistol relationship in the movies. The heroes seem to have no difference in weapon performance between using a blaster rifle and a blaster pistol.

 

DEMP

 

This is a general problem with most guns in this mod - spamming the enemy will cause him to dodge and stop him firmly in his tracks - the dodging animation becomes more of a hindrance than a help, since you cannot move closer or attack the gunner.

 

You stop in place? That shouldn't happen. You're suppose to move at x .9 normal speed while dodging. Are you sure you have the client part of the mod running while playing the game?

 

Anyway, yes, dodge does screw you up but that's sort of a game feature. When you are dodging out of the way of an attack, you do drop everything you're doing.

 

Anyway, I do have a workaround of sorts. It's called Dodge Attack. It enables you to attack while dodging. It looks pretty cool but I'm having some crash issues. It will probably be up and working for Release 2. However, there'll have to be some sort of penalty for attacking during a dodge. probably an accuracy loss for guns and a damage loss for the sabers. This is an game changing feature so it will probably be the first officially approved togglable cvar.

 

No saber parrying

I haven't made any changes other than damage levels for the saber combat. We'll be working on that at some point in the future.

 

Well, my lunch is ready. gotta go for now!

 

Razor Ace

[Alesh]

Some more questions:

 

What about kicks and punches (in case you add them, but since maul "punches" qui gon i thought you would), can you dodge them too? or even better... can you block a kick & cut the kickers (or punchers if it's a punch) leg? (pretty obious i don't like kicks? )

[razorace]

Kicking and punch can probably be done with some animation remixing. We'll probably set it up so you can only melee attack an opponent (without getting hit with the saber) when he's off guard from a parry (maybe make punch/kick be part of a combo) or when he's holding a non-saber weapon.

[Alesh]

So... any guess on when are we going to see release 2?

[razorace]

Not tomorrow.

 

Seriously, I won't even start on it until I'm done visiting my family for the holidays. (sometime next week.) After that, I gotta get with the rest of the team and figure out what we want to do next. So, I honestly don't know at this point.