A first look at ProMod 3.0

[FatalStrike]

The only reason I think the DFA should spin is because at the moment it is so precise a attack that most of the time players accidentally dodge it. Which is to say that they can' even see you DFA coming but the happen to flinch and oops you missed. That is gay, plain and simple.

 

If it is to stay as is the recovery time should shorten. As is you are 5000% (only an estimate) times more likely to die if you use a DFA then if you are the traget of one.

 

Let the damn thing spin, as long as it isn't a one hit kill who the hell cares! Let them hit you and then kill them. Besides if the only reason we have against it is because some people don't like the way it looks.....thats sad.

[zerowingzero]

allright what about this:

 

Backstabs: have them do damage equal to their style, but widen the arc of where it is unblockable, and maybe add a knockback at the end of the animation. Blue should be a parry, yellow should have a faster animation then red and a knockdown if the opponent's csc is low, and red should have a knockdown at the end unless the opponents csc defence is perfect.

 

DFA: Have it unblockable, unless by a full blue defence, and then, a knockdown at the end of the animation

 

I don't know if you can actually add knockdowns at certain frames of the animation, but it would be nice. Again, red DFA's should be all but unblockable, because the chance that you actually land one and that it isnt blocked as the other person dodges it is VERY low.

[Doctor Shaft]

I like your ideas there zero, except with the blue bs damage.

 

With blue, stance everything is about being defense and then quickly squashing your opponent with quick strikes, and if the backstab, which takes a good amount of timing to execute, only does 30, then there's really no rational benefit. You're better off sticking to the normal, much quicker and easier to use swings.

[zerowingzero]

The reasoning the damage would be so low, is that blue is about being fery fast, maybe speeding up the animation a tad? If backstabs did regular damage and can't spin, the won't be spamed because it would be more effective to swing normally, and if they can't be blocked, and if it provided a parry or defence breaker, it would serve as a good defence for a sneak attack rather than your main stratagy.

[FatalStrike]

The main issue is that some like saber swings and some like special moves.

 

I don't want to "only use it in VERY special situations" I want to use it everytime that my enemy gives me an opening. If he doens't then I won't use it. However I don't want one hit kills of any sort. There is no need for them.

 

1.04 is still to slow and clunky for me to enjoy basic saber swings, with nothing else to spice it up. Frankly I want to be able to launch the attack the situation calls for, and at the moment launching a DFA gets you killed, and 50% of the time they dodge it BY ACCIDENT. Thats is too gay for me. You call something Pro and you keep the nerfs they made for NOOBS.

 

Defense is fixed offense should be fixed as well. There is no reason to keep this clunky saber system the encourages front north-south fighting. Your only reward for strafe hits are a slow retarded spin.

[Doctor Shaft]

Oh yeah, which reminds me. Is it possible that you can return yellow stance back to its 1.02 glory Artifex, or is that too complicated an endeavor?

 

I figure since you gave red stance back it's former glory, no sense in keeping the slowed down yellow stance. At this point, red stance and yellow stance are kind of the same speed now, except the red swings are wider and have a longer wind up.

 

It would be nice to have the offensive prowess returned. It would be the base stance. Fighting gunners you have a fast, but long reaching stance. I figure, if we are giving gunners the option of sacrificing force powers, but then also giving them the ability to decrease the amount of ammo consumption and increase their firepower even more (it's already pretty high), then we should at least have once stance that we can depend on should things get tricky.

 

the current yellow stance I have been using in JK2++ against gunners. The thing is, a lot of the times, it's speed only allows you to kind of joust with the gunners... you can be real close sometimes, but your swings are just slow enough that should you both be using force speed and bunny hopping, your swings are just missing. Sometimes I'm on the money, but meanwhile the gunner is effortless just aiming random explosives. I more aggressive yellow stance return would help a little.

[ArtifeX]

Good comments all around, here. Keep them coming.

 

I agree that I've got to modify the backstab/sweeps. The risk vs. reward ratio is way out of whack for them. I've been aware of their disproportionate damage since just after the release of beta 2. I'll be upping them all to around 100 damage before 3.0's release.

 

The DFA is a different animal. The risk factor with a DFA isn't anywhere near as high as during an attempted backstab/sweep, especially if you're doing it in a confined space such as a narrow hallway. The DFA user is immune to being knocked into a deflection or knockaway animation, so even if your aim is off, you're guaranteed to complete the swing. The recovery time is pretty short, too. You can also jump out of a DFA recovery pretty quickly, avoiding getting hit most of the time.

 

Allowing the DFA to spin would just make it even more safe to attempt. I really don't think that's what the move needs.

 

I don't want the DFA to become something that someone could become so skilled with that most of their saber kills come from it. It needs to remain very difficult to land, but rewarding when you do. I think it already meets that requirement. 100+ damage plus the CSC bonuses garnered from the Red stance, and whatever bonus you get for gravity. Used against a Blue stance user, you'll get another +5 to your offense check, and they'll get a -5, yielding another +10 total. That's a possible 15+ points, which gets you halfway to a defense breaker if your aim is comparable with theirs.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Doctor Shaft

Oh yeah, which reminds me. Is it possible that you can return yellow stance back to its 1.02 glory Artifex, or is that too complicated an endeavor?

 

I figure since you gave red stance back it's former glory, no sense in keeping the slowed down yellow stance. At this point, red stance and yellow stance are kind of the same speed now, except the red swings are wider and have a longer wind up.

 

It would be nice to have the offensive prowess returned. It would be the base stance. Fighting gunners you have a fast, but long reaching stance. I figure, if we are giving gunners the option of sacrificing force powers, but then also giving them the ability to decrease the amount of ammo consumption and increase their firepower even more (it's already pretty high), then we should at least have once stance that we can depend on should things get tricky.

 

the current yellow stance I have been using in JK2++ against gunners. The thing is, a lot of the times, it's speed only allows you to kind of joust with the gunners... you can be real close sometimes, but your swings are just slow enough that should you both be using force speed and bunny hopping, your swings are just missing. Sometimes I'm on the money, but meanwhile the gunner is effortless just aiming random explosives. I more aggressive yellow stance return would help a little.

 

I'm leery of empowing yellow too much. I've already had to move its damage down from 60 to 55 from beta 1 to beta 2 because of its dominance. I am starting to get the impression it needs something else to distinguish itself from Red now that Red has had its 45-degree requirement removed. I'll look at increasing its swing speed, but any adjustment I make will have to be very slight so that Blue won't lose its own speed advantage.

[CoreyGH]

First, I'd like to mention that I'm very dissapointed that I won't be able to actively participate in the growth of Promod. My ship (in the Navy) just left port and I won't be connecting to any game servers for quite some time.

 

 

That being said, I can still read about what's going on and I have a question.

 

Why can't we force pull items (shields, health, ammo) in Multiplayer? It was in JK1 and I thought it really added to the gameplay. Could we see this added into promod?

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by CoreyGH

First, I'd like to mention that I'm very dissapointed that I won't be able to actively participate in the growth of Promod. My ship (in the Navy) just left port and I won't be connecting to any game servers for quite some time.

 

 

That being said, I can still read about what's going on and I have a question.

 

Why can't we force pull items (shields, health, ammo) in Multiplayer? It was in JK1 and I thought it really added to the gameplay. Could we see this added into promod?

 

Always a possibility, and something I'd like to do. I've got a few other things I have to implement before then, however.

[Doctor Shaft]

Now everyone with a server is up and running and trying out Promod 3.0. I'm going nuts!!!!! How close are you to completing the package Artifex? I know that you're actually doing me a huge favor and I shouldn't question you... but now I'm too excited. I need Promod. I must become a jedi. I must fail out of the rest of my college curriculum in order to fully engorge myself in the dorky star wars universe. I must wield my deadly lightsaber, or have fun flying around with a bryar pistol and some thermal detonators. I must try out your new force power, which for the past month you have refused to describe to me. I'm dying Artfex, I'm stalking you, I know where you live (not really).

 

So yeah, any news, still testing maps and such then?

[Lathain Valtiel]

*Echoes Dr. Shaft;s words to a tee, only emphasizes it with a crazed look in the eyes and a bit of drool hanging from lips*

[ArtifeX]

LOL

 

Didn't realize I was going to induce rabies with the delay! Here's how things are going so far:

 

The past week has been turbulent. I've been looking at selling my house and moving, but that fell through, so I should now have more time to wrap up 3.0.

 

What I have been doing is working with my beta testers to wring out any bugs with the new weapon skills system. You'd be surprised how something that seems so simple on the surface ends up being a major change to the code. Removing these bugs is a very high priority. I want this release to be as bug-free as possible, as the guys at the athenagt.net tournament in Italy not too long ago are going to be running a ProMod-only tournament with this upcoming release.

 

I'm also gathering info to better balance the level 4 guns against jedi. I'm going to be making some neat changes to the way some of the guns work in order to make them a bit more sane in how much damage they do, their firing rate, etc. As it stands now, the Golan is way too uber. I've got some adjustments to do with the level 4 blaster-class weapons as well.

 

How far away is it from complete? Good question. It just depends on how easy things like getting the jetpack model into the game and adding new control keys are. It could be as soon as a week if I have plenty of time to work on it and I don't hit any snags. Worst case scenario would be that I run into something that I can't work around and have to email the dev team at Raven with a question. They usually take a couple of weeks or more to answer mail. I haven't had to do this as yet, but I haven't tried anything quite as complex as adding a new force power and jetpack, both of which will need command buttons bound. Keep your fingers crossed.

[Lathain Valtiel]

Question.. Will you be doing anything about the Repeater's secondary? After all, last I checked it was quite mighty and sabers/force are absolutely USELESS on it, even Push doesn't do much I think.

[zerowingzero]

Originally posted by MMXP

Question.. Will you be doing anything about the Repeater's secondary? After all, last I checked it was quite mighty and sabers/force are absolutely USELESS on it, even Push doesn't do much I think.

 

 

Heh, here are some tips on fighting someone who has a repeater:

 

1: Never push, too much force, and even if it goes back to them it's only 1/2 damage (test it yourself, all weapons)

 

2: Throw may seem like a good idea, but no, you can't recharge and you'll never hit your target

 

3: Never try to attack, just dodge, roll, dodge, untill their out of ammo, or you can pull their weapon. As of now, because of the 1/2 self damage for all weapons, even if you do somehow close the gap between you and your opponent, there is nothing stoping them from backpedaling and altfireing you point-blank. you take full and the take half.

 

maybe lower levels of guns should have full or at least 3/4 self damage? ArtifeX?

[acdcfanbill]

Just my opinion but for realistic guns, if you rocket your own foot, you should take the same amount of damage that anyone you rocket in the foot.

[zerowingzero]

Originally posted by acdcfanbill

Just my opinion but for realistic guns, if you rocket your own foot, you should take the same amount of damage that anyone you rocket in the foot.

 

Agreed. Vanilla 1.04 anyone? (crap it's in Promod also, ah well, at least no speed+absorb)

[Lathain Valtiel]

The thing is, Push seems to MISS Repeater Secondaries, even with dead on aim... And I agree withb the 'take full damage if you shoot yourself' idea.

 

As for your strategy ZWZ.. I can't roll, I need a controller to play this game,, not enough buttons.... (I can't use keyboards). I can dodge fairly well, but the splash usually nicks me, and throws me away... Gah.

[zerowingzero]

heh, i'm using the arrowpad and can find enough buttions to use, you've gotta learn to use the kb if you want to get good at this game, don't see how your controler would have more buttions...

[Doctor Shaft]

FINALLY, SOME ONE NOTICED THAT GUNS DON'T HURT YOU AS MUCH AS THEY HURT OTHERS.... THIS.... IS.... CRAP.

 

I'm tired of that myself. Push does work on repeater, just rarely.

 

My stradegy for fighting repeater (assuming that saber damage is high, rather than meant for nothing but sword fighting).

 

Force speed, bunny hop, alternate between dodging the shots and charging full speed. Remember, fortunately they can't hop and run backwards as fast as you can go foward, and the running stradegy for gunners against sabers is to just back up and shoot. Force speed and hopping works wonders, hack away. Of course, you need to develop good aim, and predict where they may force jump, speed away, etc., themselves.

 

Saber throw is quite useless in terms of its use by the way. Yeah, it's good in saber fights becasue with no saber knockaway, it's just an easy, quick power to use. Against gunners, it's useless. I'd like to see something innovative done with it, rather than leave it as the stale and hardly used power that it is.

 

Also, get rid of that reduced damage crap. Every game seems to have this crap. That's why people are so good with those guns in the first place. It's good at close range for a reason.... they barely get hurt by their own shots. GET RID OF THIS. Force pushing shots is usually not a good idea. You might as well use speed if you're using a lightsaber against guns. This is a itme and time again proven fact in JK2++. Push should only be used like once, and that's if you're trying to retreat or are in a bind. Otherwise, hitting them with their own projectile, except when they are already badly hurt, means little.

[Lathain Valtiel]

Oh,. I can usually hack someone down with Force Speed and say Yellow in Promod,. but in 1.04 it was a NIGHTMARE. Saber just did not kill em fast enough. I could do it say 1 out of 6 times, and that was on a good day.

 

Splash almost always nicks me though, Force Speed or no Force Speed... Oh well, need to work on gun dodging, I'm a saberist, even though I COULD use a gun fairly well if I bothered.

 

And ZWZ, I do fairly well with a controller.. I personally think it allows for more... Hm, I'd say fluid movement. The ONLY essential skill I can't cram in is rolling, but I get by.

 

On that note, I was WONDERING why me pushing 3 rockets back down the opposition's throat didn't kill them... Now I know.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by zerowingzero

Heh, here are some tips on fighting someone who has a repeater:

 

1: Never push, too much force, and even if it goes back to them it's only 1/2 damage (test it yourself, all weapons)

 

2: Throw may seem like a good idea, but no, you can't recharge and you'll never hit your target

 

3: Never try to attack, just dodge, roll, dodge, untill their out of ammo, or you can pull their weapon. As of now, because of the 1/2 self damage for all weapons, even if you do somehow close the gap between you and your opponent, there is nothing stoping them from backpedaling and altfireing you point-blank. you take full and the take half.

 

maybe lower levels of guns should have full or at least 3/4 self damage? ArtifeX?

I'm in agreement with both of you on this. There's no logical reason that your own shots should do half damage to you if you shoot yourself in the foot. I think this was just a carry-over from quake 3, where they were concerned about viable rocket-jumping. I don't think that's a concern here anymore. I'll make this 100% self-damage.

[Doctor Shaft]

Thank you. They don't need rocket/repeater jumps anyway. The common tactic is just to splash the ground underneath your feet. You also witness people firing their golans on the ground and then walking over their own projectiles.

 

The worst of all is when they use the might golan, and just keep firing. You push enough of their shots to pretty much trap them in their own heavy weaponry, but they can take like four or five of their shots. You of course can only take one or two.

 

Tell me what the new force power is.

[Lathain Valtiel]

Agreed, rocket/repeater jumps are utterly useless thanks to one factor.. Force Jump. There's just no point to either in JO. 100% self damage I sa, I'd love to finally be able to waste Merr-Sonners with their own rockets.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Doctor Shaft

... Tell me what the new force power is.

 

Honestly, I'd let everybody know what it is, but I haven't coded it yet. I've got all the specifications written out, but it remains to be seen whether the transition to code will go exactly as I plan, so there's a good possibility whatever I told you wouldn't be quite correct.

 

There's also a second power I'm thinking about, but I've yet to see if it's possible or not. This is one you've seen in the movies, but hasn't been in a jk game yet.