happydan Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 i was thinking... (uhoh!) would it be better to have a standing animation for when the jetpack is in use? at the moment, you are crouching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jolts Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 I havn't played jo since the second month it came out, I tried this mod and it was fun. As far as jedi vs gunners I think it would be cool to go maybe the way of cs/sof2 type of gameplay where if you choose to be a gunner you only get 2 guns, a blaster and a rifle, the option of shields or some other gadget and a few grenades/smoke grenades.... And for jedi you get your saber, and maybe the choice of 4 force powers and something else I dunno. It would also be cool if walk/run had a third function for jedi that would plant them in a fighting stance opening up the strafe keys for swing left/right forward/backward and give you a better defense/offense against other jedi/close range gunners. But if your going for a different more original gameplay maybe those ideas would be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksk h2o Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Unfortunately I dont agree with you on the yellow stance doctor shaft. Red is mega strong and slow. A good swing will kill in one hit if placed well. You need at least four yellow stance hits to kill someone. The reason it beats red stance more often is because, well, it really should on average if people use red like they do in vanilla. Unless you are really good at aiming and timing, red stance is slow and you are open to hits. But if you time it right at a charging yellow stancer, you will take them out in a single hit. Yellow being the "medium" stance, is the most adaptive to all situations and easiest to use. I think the way the balance is now is fine. It actually forces you to switch between stances during a fight. I find myself frequently alternating between yellow and red. It seems that if you only stick to one style in promod, you are easily taken out. If you just stick to red, fast in-hit-and-out moves will take you out. If you stick to yellow or blue, waiting for an opening in the attacks and finishing them off in a blow or two in red seems to work fine. I really think low, then red comes back as the dominant and ever lasting style, it will take a lot away from the versatility of the fights. People will just stick to red all the time like in vanilla and fights will be slow sluggish and boring. I think it is a good thing that yellow is a useful stance now. And it can and allmost allways is overpowered by red. If you absolutely want to make something the saber stances maybe add more power to red, but please dont nerf yellow... what was it "dont nerf a stance to give more use to the others" straight out of the old ASC pages Just my thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Omega Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 To Detritric: Ah bunny hopping in the jetpack is like Tribes, you have to decide when holding or tapping the jetpack will increase your speed or not. First you take a jump, then you either hold or tap the jetpack. As I said, think of it like Tribes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Devil Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Originally posted by Guardian Omega To Detritric: Ah bunny hopping in the jetpack is like Tribes, you have to decide when holding or tapping the jetpack will increase your speed or not. First you take a jump, then you either hold or tap the jetpack. As I said, think of it like Tribes. Got any tips for sombody who don't have a clue as to what Tribes is (besides a game)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Omega Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 To Wolf Devil: Ah, listen well, bunny hopping is what most games require to succeed, especially Tribes. It's extremely effective, as it gives you incredible speed. Basically, scan the area quickly. Make sure when you land, nothing is high enough to halt you, such as a wall or even a couple of inches above the feet. If you are going high speed and land on something not even, you will stop. During this time, jet to make sure you don't hit the higher spots and then jump on smooth ground. I gave some jedi a nasty chase on the Yavin map with this. EDIT: I just played the game some more, and I think there's a need to get rid of the charge-released-after-a-certain-time thing. Those things can completely throw off your game, especially when you're using lvl 4 bryar and it just shoots right before he swings. It shouldn't be too hard to mod in, but hey, it's your mod! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Quick Q: How does lag affect Promod? Do you block when your CSC is looking good even though the opponent might "in reality" already be behind you backstabbing? Aiming is the crucial factor here andwith lots of lag (200+ pings)....ummm...what happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Devil Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 To Omega: Thanks, I didn't understand it the first time (meh..), but I'll read it over a few times to get it straight. And I'm sure you DID give the Jedi a few run with it (god knows you did me, even without it ). But would that work with force jump, only instead of jetpack use full jump height? To Arti Fett: He's right, it's terribly painful to have a perfectly good charge in your bryar or DEMP and then lose it long before you get the right shot. To Luc Solar: My guess is you can find yourself hacked up 10 different ways once the lag is over. Chances are you will not block something thats coming from behind you unless they're stab is off and you come out alive. Unlike in 1.04, lag is a serious pain that's felt irl and your player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Bryar and Bowcaster thing, not a problem. I have my weapon switching assigned to the scrollwheel, if by the time a shot is ready I don't have a clear shot, I wait a second or two then switch weapons and back. You lose the ammo but you don't shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlove Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 "Aiming is the crucial factor here andwith lots of lag (200+ pings)....ummm...what happens?" its a painful experience as u cant block really good:( but yesterday some europeans was playing on the right server, and that was FuN:) Btw, I noticed a flaw in promod atleast which to me seem to be unbalanced. It is when ur a gunner and the jedi use speed and pull ur jetpack disappears quick too so ur almost like 100% dead. sure you will say its caus I got no skill heh. If so please do give advice how to counter these speed-pull jedis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beige Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 I'm having trouble playing as a gunner If anyone could put up some general tips and stuff for that, what weapons to use, how to use the jetpack effectively, etc, it would be very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 use the jetpack for everything, tapping the jetpack will allow you to stay in the air for as long as possible. shoot whilst in the air, its the safest way. Always keep out of range of pullers, and watch out for pullers when using explosives, they often pull you into your own splash damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Devil Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Which can be painful now that Art's removed the half damage thing. My advise would be to change your skills depending on gametype and level, and what routes you take to get ammo and weaponry. You may have to sacrafice some things for others within in the level. For example: I only have enough points left to put into a lvl 4 repeater or flechette. I personnally don't like attempting to get to the flechette so I usually pick the repeater, which is more out in the open, which is sort of good and sorta bad. Oh and when it comes to Jedi/Sith and deflectable guns: Wait til they're attempting to strike at you or sombody else then shove as much ammo into'em as possible, and be sure to duck so as not to get pulled or lose your weapons. And try hit and fade tactics: Learn the level before playing first. Then when in a battle and you get sucked into the fray, or snipe somewhere off in the distance and it looks like sombodies coming, find a good hiding spot and wait til it's safe or find a way out of whatever corner you're currently in. Oh and one more thing: Never ever ever ever stop moving. It's fatal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 I always time my shots for just after the swing starts, in basejk this worked, in promod half the time it still delfects, its hard enough getting a shot through anyway, there's no need to make it harder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Anywho after testing this pretty extensively, I can say the following. - A Saberist who know's what he's doing should have no problem dealing with gunners, even some crappy saberists were stopping the majority of my attacks - The jetpack bug needs fixing, ie fuel doesn't refill when you die - I was playing on a server without health or shields... an absolute nightmare for a gunner like me, no way of healing - gunners need to start with more shields, the first saber swing always seems to kill me everytime, if a saberist pulls you close, don't bother trying to escape. - the people I was playing weren't even taking full advantage of their force powers and it was one hell of a challenge to win.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksk h2o Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 I think gunners should spawn with their lvl4 weapon in all gametypes. They are extremely vulnerable when they first spawn in tffa and ffa. Usually if a good gunner gets to his lvl4 weapon, he becomes a challenge to kill, otherwise he's just dead meat. I also think the items such as shields and power-ups should have higher leveld of gadgets required (if that is the skill they are associated with). Jedi's should rely on their force to re-heal most of the time so min level 3 for normal shield and medpacks, then 4 for the uber shield and bacta should be the skill levels. This would make heal and shields more for the gunners, and they do need protection let me tell ya (people may hate this idea, but I think it would work out for the best) Deitriq, were you shooting at the jedi with a gun with which you had a high skill for? One thing I noticed in promod is that if a gunner with a level 4 blaster or repeater fires at me witht hte radip fire, even if I am in blue stance and looking straight at them, some of his fire will hit me (which i think is realistic). I thought jedi have a harder time blocking high skilled shots from gunners, so what you say does surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 I've never had a problem killing Jedi with the bryar because I always wait for the swing, playing promod my shots were getting deflected 1/2 the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradivh Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Detritic-iQ: Sorry, but as a beta tester I've played promod far more extensively than you, and I've had the exact opposite experience when it comes to saber VS guns. I can't stress enough how much the gunner owns. On a normal playing field you shouldn't have any trouble holding your own. It was foolish of you to play a gunner on a map with no health/shield packs as that's one of their biggest advantages, but otherwise if newbie Jedi are giving you challenge I'm afraid I'll have to assume your tactics are flawed. I've seen players who, to this point, have been 100% pure saberists, try a gunner class out of sheer curiousity, and they'd suddenly dominate the battlefield, claiming first place consistently and by a LOT. And I'm not talking about a server filled with bushy-tailed newbies here, but veteran players with a reasonable grasp of promod physics, though the majority usually have roots as a saberist. So I shudder at the thought of a REAL gunner taking advantage of these new abilities (fortunately so far they seem too set in their ways to learn the new tactics). Players like Lazarous have shown me that with weapons at level 4 you can butcher a small army before a Jedi closes with you. And even then you have plenty of opportunities to escape. It's true that one medium swing will put an end to your killing spree unless you're smart enough to max out your shields, but that's the point: a gunner's game is about strategy, about obtaining your resources and choosing your fights. Running backwards will not save you from a Jedi on speed, but the jetpack stands a very good chance at giving you time to escape (or annihilate your attacker), even in low-ceiling maps. When you're flying above the ground, even by a few feet, you get a hefty defensive bonus that's like partial invulnerability. And if you EVER get tripped by force pull or push you can rocket away so damn fast it's practically an exploit. I haven't played alot of CTF (only a 3-4 hours in promod, really) so feel free to teach me lessons on gameplay there. But in deathmatch or team FFA don't go telling me the gunner needs a buff. There's a weapon spawnpoint every 20 metres on most maps. If you don't have the patience or the skills to survive until you can fly over to one then don't blame it on the system. You really shouldn't be playing on weird "no health or shield pack" servers if you want to play a gunner, as they're the bread and butter of your survival. Promod tries to make EVERY aspect of the game apply to balance, so if you're playing with restrictions you'd better be pretty damn confident in your skills. As for the jetpack bug, sorry. Don't know how that got past us. The next version will fix that I'm sure. But as a gunner you have plenty of other abilities to catch up in score after an unfair spawn-kill, so don't cry yourself to sleep. I know I won't. EDIT: about your whole "brayar shots getting deflected in promod" thing... it may be because the saber itself can deflect shots during a swing, assuming the shot manages to hit the saber spot-on. So occasionally a shot can be blocked manually with a swing instead of auto-blocking, though manual blocks are usually just a fluke and aren't planned. So try aiming your shots so they don't get in the saber's path, Detritic, and you should do fine. I've witnessed brayar kills more times than I can count, and am myself a victim of it several times a game. In fact it's much HARDER to block the brayar now because a Jedi must actually aim his crosshair right at you to pull it off -- as far as I know back-shots will kill every time. However, I'll make the observation that promod attracts alot of the very best saberists on the internet today, so perhaps you've never faced such a concentration of good saberists in a game before, and thus you find it harder to hit with the brayar. Hsk h2o: Your suggestions make sense on a theoretical standpoint, but trust me: gunners don't need any more help, and Jedi don't need nerfing. I don't know what map settings you guys are playing on, but I think the bulk of your ideas would blast apart the delicate balance between classes as is. On another point, I've seen almost no good hybrids in the last few days. Most players that go hybrid do so because they're too n00b to know how to get lvl 4 guns, and as such, they get slaughtered. So please, somebody reassure me that hybrids can still compete with the extreme classes. I'd try a hybrid myself but I haven't fired a gun competatively online since the original Tribes, so I doubt I'd make a shining example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happydan Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 no one ever reads my questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted December 4, 2002 Author Share Posted December 4, 2002 Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ Bug Time! - if you suicide, then get killed before it takes effect, it still seems to kill you after you respawn - if you die after using the jetpack, the fuel when you respawn will be the same as when you die. ie it doesn't refill. This means a gunner can respawn with no evasive ability whatsoever. Noted. thx for the heads-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted December 4, 2002 Author Share Posted December 4, 2002 Originally posted by Sabre9 Hey Art, you may want to change the... um... however ProMod describes itself to external server viewers like All Seeing Eye... I just took a look, and all the active servers running ProMod are still reporting "ProModBeta3"... and that 'Beta' part of the name may still be scaring away players... (Even your Official Server is described as "ProModBeta3")... Just FYI... I'm aware of this problem. I've tried to discover what the problem is, and it appears to be that I forgot to modify one of the gamename variables in the server code. Unfortunately, this means it will require a code-change patch to fix. I'm going to add this to the list of 3.0 bugs and put everything in promod 3.1, which will be a bug-fix only patch, rather than a feature addition patch as I had previously planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted December 4, 2002 Author Share Posted December 4, 2002 Originally posted by ksk h2o PS: Artifex, what's the deal with your server? There aren't that many servers out there with promod to start with, and yours seems to be running a non public version... it is a letdown not to be able to play with the best promod players out there, and your server does have a lot more people on it than any other server at a given time... Sorry about the downtime. I've been having some problems with my isp lately. I've actually bought another server through a different company, and am trying to get it set up today or tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kettch Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 I think pure jedi shouldn't start with 100 hp and 25 shields... I think jedi should start with only 100 hp and no shields Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Moradivh, my comments we based on me using the perspective of a gunner worse than me. I can cope without health or shields, but there are those that can't. I've yet to play a Promod game where I haven't been on top of the score table, i've played on the official server and the "freaky no health or shields" server. I put my winning down to 6 months of pure gunning experience. BUT making promod into a combo mod for guns and sabers has partially removed the element that made every kill a skilled one. Force pull is the dominant ability from my experience (2 - days, about 25 games). Also i've noticed that the winner is dominated too much by the map. The only open maps i've played on are Bespin Streets and Massassi Temple, where it was stupidly easy to win. Other maps such as Imperial, Star Destroyer etc were dominated by saberists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Devil Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Det, alot of Jedi don't got heal, and drain is suicide vs gunners, and if you're stuck without no health or shields, they probably are too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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