emimar Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 The Mon Cals were responisble for the B-Wing. In EU it says that Ackbar was the one who designed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 But the Mon Cal didnt fly the B-wing! Weapons designers and weapons users are two completely different groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Ackbar's niece flew a B-Wing. It makes littl difference whether or not we have a human pilot or a Mon Cal Pilot or a sullustan. Most ground troopers we saw in the movies were humans. Some other things could be with aliens but not troopers. Besides, if you want a Wookiee trooper for the rebs, why hving a wookiee civ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Didn't she fly an X-Wing? Or do you mean prior to joining Wraith Squadron? I can't remember it that well anymore. Note that the X-Wing books are the only EU I would bother reading again. They were cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Vostok: Of the existing civs, the Rebs are the only ones I can see, but for proposed civs like the New Republic and Smugglers' Union I think multi-racial is the way to go. Especially the New Republic. One thing- who are the Dresselians? Luke's dad: I don't particularily care if there were no Wookiee troopers in the movies. I'm planning to remove the Wook civ altogether, but I think we need to have some Wooks, and so they're the Rebel (and/or New Republic) primary troopers (aka typical gun-holding laser troopers). Emimar, Windu: I think that Mon Cals would be better suited for the capital ships, as both movies and EU show them as holding high positions and command of fleets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 I agree with your first paragraph, CorranSec. In Return of the Jedi in the Briefing room there are a few aliens dressed in the camouflage gear that we later see Han Solo's strike team dressed in. One of these aliens has an eyepatch. He has been given the name Orrimarrko or something in EU and is commonly called Prune Face. These aliens are Dresselians. I disagree with your second paragraph. If the Wookiees are removed (and I don't particularly care if they are) it would be a mistake to replace the Rebel Trooper with a Wookiee. We see one Wookiee trooper in the movies, but about a hundred human troopers fighting for the Rebellion. Don't get rid of perfectly good cannon. I'd prefer to see (or most likely hear, if the current icon convention holds) a Wookiee behind the wheel of a mech or heavy weapon. And I agree with your third paragraph, though I wouldn't really want to see any capital ships (including anything like the Air Cruiser) in SWGB2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 About the Wookiees: It just seemed to make sense (seeing as they are such good soldiers/warriors) to put them as people on the battlefield, rather than behind the wheel/stick/control panel of a tank. All right, perhaps they shouldn't be the basic 'laser trooper,' but could they be a mounted trooper or something (if that's included, otherwise just another kind of trooper)? About the Cap Ships: I might need to clarify something. I'm not talking about really big Star Destroyers, or Mon Calamari Star Cruisers, or whatever. I'm talking about the rather smaller kinds, ones that would fit in with the map size etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_dog no.3 Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Why merge, then we can't do proper scenarios set in Kashyyykk, or other such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 The concerns of a few scenario-makers who happen to like Kashyykk (sp? crazy wookiees...) are secondary to the fact that the Wooks just aren't worthy of being a civ, when there are plenty of better options. And anyway, Kashyykk as a planet should still be there. Think of it this way- with the Wooks gone (and there will still be some in another civ and/or in the editor!) we can have a far better civ and make scenarios for them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Wooks are nice civs and everyone knows who chewbacca is so it was totally correct to put them as a civ and keep them. Movies>EU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Movies>EU does not apply in the case of the Wookiees, because the current Wook civ is 90% EU. The only thing that is in the movies is, well, the fact that the race exists, and Chewie. The thing that rules over "Movies>EU," however, is "Good, worthy, popular and well-made civs>Bad, totally made up, etc civs." Think about it. Would you really take the Wookiees above an incredibly well-fleshed-out civ with plenty of background material and a huge role in the universe- aka New Republic? It may or may not have been correct to put them in GB. But it is not correct to keep them instead of including more and far better civs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Corran, Star Wars is first and foremost a movie. The most famous alien race in those movies is the Wookiees, with perhaps the exception of the Hutts. Why? Until the prequels came out we had only ever seen one Wookiee and one Hutt (not including the Star Wars Christmas Special). But you walk up to an average person-on-the-street and say "What is a Wookiee?" At least half the time they will answer correctly. Most people won't know what the New Republic is, even when you add in the fact that it has something to do with Star Wars. This is because there is nothing about the New Republic in the movies. Sure, it's a natural extrapolation, but it still isn't really there. So it's okay to make up 90% of the Wookiee units to include a recognisable race than to make up a smaller percent for an unrecognisable race. It's just intelligent marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Exactly! Wookiees are more important! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 GB is first and foremost a game, and we need to think about what would fit best in terms of gaming. Think- a civ built up from a single character in the movies into a civilisation worthy of galactic battles (with the help of EU), even though they are part of the New Republic, deserves to be in the game more so than the New Republic itself? If, however, we can include all the civs I desire as well as the Wookiees I wouldn't be against them. I just don't think it would be possible without sacrificing some other elements. And one thing- they must most definitely not have a campaign in GB2. They had two- two!- in GB1, and the Naboo missed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Yeah I agree it was dumb to give them both a proper campaign and the training campaign when Naboo got nothing. But I do think that the Wookiees deserve more to be in the game than the New Republic. Wookiees as a civ have the possibility to be a very different type of civ to the others, what with regeneration and beserkers and what-have-you. The New Republic on the other hand, while perhaps not exactly the same as the Rebellion, still have a lot in common. Not to mention you'd have to have at least a little bit of graphic overlapping. Trooper uniforms are still the same and the X-Wing is still their most prominent fighter. I know we could have other fighters, but to not give the New Republic the X-Wing is to not adequately represent them in a game. The Wookiee civ is by far the best out of all the possible minor civs to have been included in SWGB, with perhaps the exception of Hutts. But then again Hutts are more under-handed and insidious so having them send an army into battle doesn't completely fit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 It's hard to find a campaign for people who are mostly pacifist. I guess they didn't find any ideas for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 It will be quite easy to make the New Republic amazingly different from the New Republic. To begin with, they have a whole load of new units, so they don't need to use any units identical to Rebel ones (eg. E-Wings instead of X-Wings). Their strategies will also be a lot different- rather than the guerilla (sp?) hit-and-run tactics of the Rebellion, the New Republic is an established government with far more solid power at their command. If you think that the Wookiees are a 'very different' kind of civ, just imagine what civs like the Vong would be like! The Wookiee civ was a completely mind-baffling choice for a minor civ. The first time I opened the manual, the first thing I looked at was the civs. "Rebels... Empire... Trade Federation.... Naboo.... Gungans... good, they've got all the major movie civs. Now, they should hopefully have a great EU civ... WOOKIEES!?" Right. Of all the choices, they [the LucasArts people] decide to build something practically from scratch, with nothing to work off but a single prominent character and a bit of EU which showed what their home planet was and that they had a feud with the Trandoshans. Okay, so the civ might be fun to use and have some fairly different technologies etc. to the other civs, but to pick them over the New Republic.... All right. Include them in GB2- but include EU civs as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Corran - i strongly disagree with you here. Star Wars is Lucas, Lucas is the movies, not EU. It would be much better to flesh out movie-based civs rather than add completely EU civs, from a Marketing, Gameplay and Realism perspective. EU just isnt popular enough, and i would much prefer to play as the Wookies or Hutt's rather than the New Republic or Yvung Vong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Making a Wookiee civ is in many ways the same as making a Kaminoan or Trandoshan civ. Do you want to 'flesh them out' too? There just isn't enough material about them, and their role in the movies was limited to only very few characters. Although Chewie is a main character, it's still quite ridiculous to build a civ from the ground up- or more appropriately, from the existence of Chewie and a few mentions in EU up. Would you make your choice of favoured civs simply because Chewie was in the movies? Of the three factors you mentioned [gameplay, marketing and realism] only one matters, and that's fairly minor. Realism- most of the Wook units [currently, and what probably will be the case in GB2] are out of the developer's imagination, and are thus far less realistic than the units shown in EU for the New Republic. Gameplay- Civs such as the New Republic and the Yuuzhan Vong [YV especially] would bring new and exciting units and strategies to the game, all based on real source material. I don't see how the Wookiees could improve gameplay more than the YV. Marketing- I think that the Rebels, the Confederacy, the Old Republic and the Trade Federation- to name just a few- would generate much more interest than the Wooks, and they'll all be there. The game can live without the Wooks. More appropriately, the game can live with the Wooks, but only if they can fit on top of the prominent EU civs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 We should not put EU before the movies! The Wookiees were chosen to be a civ because of Chewie! Wookiees are here to stay. I at first didn't believe in them but I figured out that they were a cool civ to play with. New Republic and Vong should be minor civs if the story of the game is not important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 What do you call 'minor civs'? And seeing as the game should be able to fit them in, along with their campaigns, what do you have against the New Republic and the Vong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_dog no.3 Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Why not have Imps and Rebels turn into NR and IR at later tech levels. They will still be called Rebels and Imps, but all thier stuff upgrades to what the IR and NR have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Corran-Minor civs because Movies>EU Crazy_dog- nah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Crazy_dog: No. No, no, no. This isn't EE. The civs are completely different. How can a complete reverse of power be reflected in a simple civ upgrade!? Luke's dad: But what if we can fit in all the prominent movie civs (ie the ones in GB1) as well as all the important EU ones? There's no need to reduce them to minor civs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Maybe not minor...they should be a lot less important then th canon civs(which is the same)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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