Official SWGB 2 GB.com Thread

[lukeiamyourdad]

Knowing that the Ambush tank is a rip-off I kind of changed my opinion about it...We shouldn't be taking too much stuff from other RTS especially units.

 

I'm not sure if some civ would modify a tank to use a flamethrower. And this isn't even a flamethrower...

I don't see why we can't have a Plasma throwing tank. It seems fine to me. And we have to make up our own units or Naboo would only have two speeders, a fighter and troopers and don,t even think about the Wookiees...

[CorranSec]

Okay. About Windu's units.

 

1. Yes, this goes against the playstyle of the Wookiees. It is clear from the movies and has been determined in previous posts/threads that the Wooks are basically a smashy, bangy, all-out-offense civ. Not the kind of people who walk around cloaking. And no matter how much you might like the Westwood games, you cannot justify utterly and completely stealing a unit.

 

2. Plamsa tank, eh? Although the 'plamsa-thrower' is a good idea for a weapon, I don't think it's suited to this particular civ. In addition, the de-garrisoning buildings is overpowered.

 

3. This should be a fast unit with some transport capabilities (4 people, perhaps?), which can serve as a support/scout as well.

[Darth Windu]

Corran - first, NOTHING has been established about the fighting style of Wookiee's. The only experience we have to go by is Chewbacca and a Senator, in other words not a great deal.

Also, with my idea what im trying to do is give every civ 20 units total. As i had 19 for the fed's i needed to come up with another, and though a flame (or plasma) tank would be a good idea as sort of an armoured flamethrower droid.

 

Luke - what does it matter if it is similar to a unit from another game? The only questions that need to be asked are would it work and does it fit?

 

PS: again i would like to say to everyone that if you disagree with me in respect to my idea, please give me your own suggestions on what you think would be better and what should be added to the game.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Wookiee fighting style- Actually as we have seen in SWGB1, the wookiees are more of a hit-and-fade civ(if you base your argument around that). Han and Chewie both sneeked into many places. Again, if you play the wookiee quite often you'll see that their strats are a little bit more around the hit-and-fade then the all out battle. With their weaponry, hit-and-fade strikes are easier to do then all out battles.

 

Ripping-off units from another game is a very bad idea. period.

You can rip-off some things but never whole units.

 

APT- Looks like most of us agree that the de-garrissoning is overpowered. However, maybe a plasma droid is better then a tank. It could replace the mountie and be good vs buildings instead...

[Admiral Vostok]

Windu - Wookiees are tall, ferocious, aggressive, quick to anger creatures. Something tells me their fighting style would not involve stealth. Hit-and-fade yes, but all-out invisibility no. Surely you can see this.

 

And even if the Mirage Tank didn't completely contradict the Wookiee's fighting style, that fact that it is a total rip-off should disqualify it. A unit being similar to one from another game is one thing, an EXACT COPY of a unit is totally different. Both Star Wars movies and EU are full of enough ideas before we need to start plagiarising other games.

 

As for the Plasma Tank - there are two types of made up units:

1- The unit could possibly exist as there wasn't a need to use it in the movies

2- The unit could not possibly exist, as the perfect situation in which to use it arose in the movies but it made no appearance.

With this in mind, the Trade Federation's Plasma Tank obviously falls into number 2. What about all the Naboo's stuff, I hear you ask? The Naboo could quite possibly have a large array of weapons that we didn't see because (a) the best ones were probably locked down once the Trade Federation had control of Theed, (b) they didn't want to use any really destructive weapons in their beautiful city when smaller weapons would do the job.

 

So when making up units, you should think "would they have used this in the movies if it existed?" If the answer is yes, it probably shouldn't be included.

 

Oh, and the fact that I write these things in my post makes it my opinion. Why should I have to write "My opinion is no" when simply "no" means exactly the same thing?

[Darth Windu]

luke - the reason i have used the mirage tank is because i think it is a good concept and would fit well into SWGB2.

Although we have seen the Wookiees in SWGB1, we still havent seen them fight in the movies and frankly, the game didnt do a fantastic job of showing the fighting styles of the other civs either.

 

vostok - i was simply taking issue with the way you said it, to me it seemed more of a command than a suggestion.

 

With the Plasma Tank, just because you didnt see it doesnt mean it wasnt there. Also as i said before, there are a great deal of scenes taken out of the movies that would show new battles with different units, such as the ep2 speeder bike scene, the ep2 space battle, and there was even a scene in ep2 where a Republic Assault ship attacks a Geonosian airbase. Bit since we didnt get to see that, there is no basis on which to say the assault ship has weapons.

 

The APT would be a good addition to the TF because it would fir their style of play, increase diversity, and also maintain realism or at least plausable realism.

[lukeiamyourdad]

SWGB1 did quite a good job to show the fighting style of some civs. Since we don't actually know how the wookiees fight, we don' exactly know if it's either well presented or not. So let's base it on what we know from the games and the movies.

 

Now I don't understand. How would the APT fit into the Trade fed fighting style? They are more of a masssing up a lot of troops and crush the enemy. How can the APT fit into that?

[Darth Windu]

luke - the APT would fit because the TF uses mainly a combo of troops and armour. Hence the APT (armour) would have the role of infantry support, thereby helping the TF to lose as little droids as possible and could support the whole force.

 

PS: with your sig question there is no answer becuase there is no god.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Windu- I don't see how that units actually is infantry support. Does this mean the TF main force are their troopers?

 

Off-topic

 

Actually I don't believe in God neither because of all the contradictions but I respect people who believe in Him.

I won't tell you the answer to my riddle but the guy who asked me this believes in God actually.

[Darth Windu]

luke - it would be infantry support because it would be very strong againt infantry, thereby helping the TF's own infantry.

 

Also, each civ has particular strengths and weaknesses. The strengths of each civ would be-

1. Confederacy - Infantry, Mechs

2. Empire - Mechs

3. Republic - all-arms force (combo of everything)

4. Hutts - Infantry

5. Rebels - Air, Infantry

6. Naboo - Navy

7. TF - Mechs, Infantry

8. Wookiees - Infantry, Navy

 

PS: the answer to your question is cheese

[Admiral Vostok]

Windu -

 

Let's take an entirely scientific perspective on how the Wookiees may or may not fight. Things we know: Wookiees are very big, very strong, they are quick to anger and almost unstoppable when in a rage (evidence: Han's line about it not being wise to upset a Wookiee, Chewie's attack on Stormtroopers when Han is about to get frozen, Chewie's strangling of Lando). We know this goes for all Wookiees, not just Chewie, based on what Han says about upsetting Wookiees. So logically, an agressive species would give rise to an agressive fighting style. Wookiees would see their brute strength and powerful rage as a weapon to make full use of, not an asset to ignore while you sit in a mech that pretends it's a tree.

 

"It's not wise to upset a Wookiee."

"But sir, nobody worries about upsetting a droid."

"That's because droids don't shoot you then pretend to be trees when they lose; Wookiees are known to do that."

 

As for the Plasma Tank - The Trade Federation has possibly the best infantry support unit in the galaxy - the Droideka. Why do they need the Plasma Tank? Besides, you miss my point about it not being in the movie - the Assault Ship could have weapons, but there was no good place in the battle on screen to use them. On the other hand, the Grass Plains Battle would have been the perfect place for a Plasma Tank if it existed, but since it wasn't there we can assume one of two things: either the Neimoidians are completely incompetent and failed to think the weapon that the Plasma Tank would be an incredible advantage when fighting Gungans, or that it simply doesn't exist. Being both a rational person and a Star Wars Purist (as you claim to be) I can only conclude the latter.

[Darth Windu]

Vostok - with the Wookiees, just because they're aggressive doesnt mean they're stupid. Also, if you can think of a better unit to replace the Ambush Tank, i'd like to hear it.

 

With the APT, again i say that just because you didnt see it doesnt mean it wasnt there. It would be great for anti-infantry and anti-building assault, and would work well with the TF's armoured and infantry units.

Also, as i said before there is a deleted scene from ep2 where Clone Troopers on Imperial Speeder Bikes attack the droid army. However, since we never saw this scene does that mean the Republic shouldnt have that unit in SWGB or SWGB2?

 

 

PS: I have just finished a new and updated version of my idea, if anyone wants a copy send me a private message with your email address.

[Admiral Vostok]

Windu, you seem to not have read my post at all. This may have been due to the size of it, so I shall be breif here:

 

Mirage Tank = complete ripoff = lawsuit = not a chance in hell

 

As for the APT, there was absolutely no place it possibly could have been in the movies, UNLIKE the speederbikes (so don't use that as an argument again). Also, a unit that is good vs troopers while at the same time good vs buildings (the total opposite of troopers) makes no sense.

[Darth Windu]

Vostok - spo does that mean Westwood can sue Lucasarts for using troopers? Or aircraft? Or tanks? It is simply a concept, and as it is a good one i think it would be good to include it in SWGB2. Again, if you have a better idea i would like to hear it.

 

With the APT of course it makes sense, and even if you cant believe that it COULD have been in the ep1 battle, just assume that it was created out of the lessons learned from that battle, including the need to have a armoured unit that could defeat infantry faster than the AAT, and that they used the AAT chasis to save time and credits.

[Admiral Vostok]

Windu, you know what I mean about it being a ripoff, don't pretend you don't. I'm not going to waste my time explaining how the concept of troopers in two games is totally different from a mirage tank in two games.

 

As for the APT, why would they create this unit? They have droidekas and STAPs, which are more than capable in their anti-infantry role. The only reason would be to use against buildings, and if this is the case get rid of the anti-infantry ability.

[Darth Windu]

Well there are two reasons-

 

1. It seemed like a good idea at the time

2. They needed another unit

 

Also, with the Mirage Tank/Ambush Tank thing, how is this different to the use of a Jedi Master in SWGB? If the techs are researched, the master is cloaked unit he attacks or is discovered, its exactly the same concept except for a mech.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Once again windu we have to look for gameplay factors first so we need to see all the other units before thinking it might have a place or might be needed.

 

And this isn't a question of concept this is a ripoff. And Masters use Mind Trick not some invisible armor. It sucks for realism.

And don't bring up the argument of stealth bombers who can't be detected by radar 'cause a trooper should be blind to not see it.

[Darth Windu]

Ok, the TF has-

 

Infantry-

1. PK Droid

2. Battle Droid

3. Plasma Battle Droid

4. Rifle Battle Droid

5. Security Droid

6. Droid Commander

7. Grapple Droid

8. Sith Knight

 

Mechs-

9. Droid Cargo Hovercraft

10. Battle Droid on STAP

11. Droideka

12. APT

13. ATT

14. MTT

 

Aircraft-

15. Droid Starfighter

16. Droid Starbomber

17. Federation Lander

 

Ships-

18. Droid Utility Trawler

19. Droid Frigate

20. Droid Cruiser

[lukeiamyourdad]

It seems the TF only needs an anti-buildings ground unit...

[Admiral Vostok]

It isn't needed Windu. I'd rather have authentic-feeling Star Wars play than unnecessary made-up units.

[Darth Windu]

For the 3rd time, what would you replace it with??? I still dont have a problem with the unit.

[eizo131]

The TF doesn't have any anti-building unit, they invade a planet and keep it whole, which I can't say for the E(I?)mperials...

 

Has their already been a discussion like this on the Republic?

[Admiral Vostok]

What would I replace it with?

 

Anti-infantry: Droidekas are the best anti-infantry unit in the galaxy, why would you need anything else?

Anti-building: Some sort of pummel-like device. The Trade Fed Mechs all have significantly more armour on their fronts than comparable mechs, and this comes in handy for barging through walls. Look at the way the MTTs barged down the forest. Anyway, with this in mind a pummel completely fits the Trade Federation military style, and doesn't contradict anything (since there was no building destruction in Episode 1 for which they would use it). I should add that unlike the pummels in SWGB1, which had short-ranged lasers, this would be more brute-force, bashing stuff down withit's heavily-armoured nose (which looks very similar to the nose of an MTT).

[Sithmaster_821]

Actually, I have the TF having a sort of tank as their anti-building weapon. You'll see...(their after the rebs, plus when I do them, I also am going to do a detailed description of siege in my templates)

[Darth Windu]

Vostok - ok, how about keeping the APT, an Armoured Plasma Tank development of the AAT, but make it really good against buildings but poor vs everything else? That way you get good realism and gameplay.