Whoa, what's this, a shameless plug for Promod

[Doctor Shaft]

Getting sick of 1.04 yet? Probably not. I doubt many people really care about the state of 1.04 or not. It's fun, I'm sure, for most people.

 

Anyway, if you're getting tired of this move being spammed or that move being spammed. If you're sick of the f-zero, fire the guns kind of game that JK2 eventually becomes at the highest levels of competition, if you're tired of saber battles that seem more random at times than skill determined (this isn't to say that there's no skill, but you just know that sometimes something fishy is going on), then come on out and try PROMOD 3.0.

 

You've heard of it, you've seen threads about it, and you probably think "what the hell"?

 

It's not a flashy mod. No double sabers, no level 4 force powers, no super speed or ultimo chain lightsabers. All the basic mechanics are in there. However, the random numbers are removed. Lightsaber blocking is done by a precise numbers system, all based on your aim. I'm sure you've heard of that too. What's so great about it then? Well, because vanilla 1.04 doesn't do this. Blocking is randomly generated in most cases, alot of times it can become luck of the draw. Saber damage is upped, but since blocking is very precise, and very predictable (meaning that you can be assured that if you're aiming right and walking the right direction, it's going to work), the high damage is necessary to end the fights.

 

Do battles last as long as in 1.04. YES, YES YES YES. Don't believe for a second that saber combat is too fast. It's fast if you're not aiming right. I've had drawn out battles taking me across an entire map of chasing, blocking, trying to kill, chasing, etc. If you've got the aim and skills in promod, fights can last for several minutes. Download the lazerous vs nutritious video. It's lightsaber versus gunner. That match, even with parts of it fast fowarded, is 30 minutes.

 

The system pits jedi against bounty hunters. If you want full force powers and a saber, you'e got it, ut you can't get all the items or all the guns.

 

You want the guns, you can have them even at a higher level of power. A little more damage, a little faster firing rate. But you get no force powers. A jetpack to help you fly around on limited fuel and slow boost is all you need though.

 

There is a hybrid as well, a jedi with guns. Level 2 force powers only, no jetpack, and no level 4 guns. Is it effective? Yes, there are some good hybrid players.

 

So wher'es the adrenaline in there? Where's the manic speed i get in 1.04 when I turn on speed rage and use my guns, and kill everyone with ease, and bunny hop all day. Well, you can still bunny hop, and with your jetpack you can fly everywhere. But promod evens the playing field. the jedi can take down the gunner in one hit, but the gunner can also do the same with his guns (the flechette) or basically spam him to death in less than 4 seconds. It's a very lethal game. At the lowest levels, it will seem slow and combersome, but at it's highest, it's nonstop, very fast, but less random, and it doesn't come down to a "who's got the most speed and the biggest gun".

 

This is my "review" of the mod. If you're comfortable with the rabid quake like sometimes randomness of 1.04, that's cool . it's fun, it's a valid game, and it takes skill to play. But if it ever gets bland, I suggest you come on over. there's no glitz or glamor here. No double lightsabers, no infinite rocket packing, no super speed rocket packs. no grappling hooks, no places to exploit flying. No enlarged models or armies of yoda. Just a game with the basic features and mechanics of good ole JK, only with the settings all tweaked to make it a playing field where the best saberists and the best gunners can compete against each other and thrive, rather than necessitating a million servers that are either all guns or all sabers.

 

And this is all I have to say in this shameless plug.

 

Try it out.

[Break_dF]

Thanks again for another useless promod advertisement. If we're not playing it by now, we WON'T be playing it.

[razorace]

Yeah, Promod is plugged more often than a crack whore.

[Mex]

I am definatly not playing Promod ever again

 

The saber combat is terribly poor, and duels and fights with sabers last 2 seconds before you die in one hit.

 

0.1/10

[The Truthful Liar]

Originally posted by Flanders

I am definatly not playing Promod ever again

 

The saber combat is terribly poor, and duels and fights with sabers last 2 seconds before you die in one hit.

 

0.1/10

 

Let me guess, you played... once? :|

[ksk h2o]

People judge promod way too fast. They usually come in arts server and are cut in half by the people that really knwo themod well. Since they cant own like they do in vanilla without having to adapt, they immediately call promod whack. It's really a pity because the game is so darn fun when you get used to it. I wish there was a less vicious server out there where new players could come and play without being torn to shreds. Most veterans react negatively when they get killed in a second. But hey, even if you are king master ownage in vanilla, you will get schooled pretty heavily when you first play promod. You just have to give it some time.

[razorace]

I've got no problem personally with Artifex, I just don't particularly like the whole CSC system. It sounds good on paper but it doesn't feel anything like real saber/sword combat in practice.

[Doctor Shaft]

And yet, at the same time, if we were to take the CSC and put up against vanilla saber fighitng, we would see that 1.04 is even less connected with "real" sword fighting. Let's see here.

 

CSC tries to give you a trump system, certain style have an advantage over another. CSC requires you to aim correctly, and a person with poor aim, or even good aim that's not quite as good as the others, will be beaten. Also, the CSC takes into account movement. Moving foward gives you more power, but less blocking. Walking foward actually gives you a better offensive power and some defense, but you're not running now. The system is deep, and goes on and on.

 

Now, let's knock on the "coveted" 1.04. Random blocking numbers, meaning that in some cases you need aim, other cases there's no point. Momentum is not taken into account. YEs, you can "rush down" in the game all that jazz, but the blocking determining, the offensive power are ALL the same. And sometimes, it's completely RANDOM.

 

And here we are knocking on a precise system. That's comical. Anyway, I never said 1.04 wasn't fun. If you must live forever because you can't handle getting killed in one good swing in promod, so be it. I love getting hacked in half that quickly. It's an indication to me that I wasn't aiming well. I KNOW that I didn't encounter random numbers, and I UNDERSTAND how I got beaten. You can't exactly say the same in 1.04, though it's certainly there.

 

Also, the getting killed in one hit thing RARELY happens after you've actually gotten good at the game. Like I said, Promod is different from 1.04.

 

Anyway, yes, I enjoyed giving you another "worthless plug" and thanks for listening. There's no harm in trying to get other people to play, though there's plenty of people to play with anyway. Just a thought.

[razorace]

*yawn*

 

1. Real sword combat has nothing to do with Jedi Saber Combat.

2. Aiming your eyesight at your opponent has no relivence on Jedi Saber Combat or real saber combat. There's a difference between actually watching your opponent and staring at his left nipple for no particular reason.

3. The CSC system makes the game even more lag dependent. If my character positions are updating slower than my opponent's, he WILL be able to out aim me. Skill or not.

 

There are multiple ways of simulating saber combat, some choose simple random number generator systems and some choose making it dependant on crosshair position. People have to decide for themselves which is better.

[Syfo-Dyas]

Originally posted by razorace

Yeah, Promod is plugged more often than a crack whore.

 

NO IT HASN'T!!!

 

 

Get ProMod!

 

 

There, NOW it has...

 

By the way, I take issue with Flanders. I rarely die from just one hit, but there is a good possibility that I could. The point is that I BLOCK. This helps cut down on the number of times I get hit. Blocking also requires a certain amount of skill in ProMod. Not just the CSC, but also the stance you choose, whether or not you are in a defensive position (crouching), and whether you are retreating or advancing -they ALL play a role.

 

Razorace makes some good points about the CSC, I can't buy that noise about Random number generators being on par with the CSC. Sorry, but I'll bank on absolutes over random chance any day of the week...

 

Of course, you are right. It IS up to each to make their choice. Nobody should HAVE to use ProMod who doesn't want to. But even though you have decided NOT to use it, aren't you glad you at least have the option?

 

I know ProMod has been talked to death on this forum, and got more than it's share of threads started. I have constantly been plugging it as well to anyone frustrated with JO that would listen. Please try to understand that for many of us ProMod isn't a fancy add-on to JO. It's the reason we're even continuing to play JO! We are also trying to grow a community so we have people to play against and servers to play on. Now that we also have our own forum, you won't be bothered with constant threads anymore.

 

But you may still get the occasional shameless plug...

 

You are welcome to join us if you so desire...

[Mex]

Originally posted by AB_Legion

 

Let me guess, you played... once? :|

 

No, I played it about 6 times, I was getting bored, then some guy called Laz sabers everyone in 1 hit, and then when I slash him with the best aim I could, I am dead.

 

Promod should be called diebylazarousinonehitmod

[razorace]

Well, shameless plugs aren't allowed for mods in this forum. All that stuff is suppose to belong in the showcase forum. I personally disagree with this rule as I'd prefer shameless pluging here and change the Showcase forum into a "Retraded Question HQ" forum. But that's just me.

 

And thank you, Syfo-Dyas, for a more balanced pro arguement. Doctor Shaft sounds like he's cut and pasting from Promod's readme/PR handbook.

Razorace makes some good points about the CSC, I can't buy that noise about Random number generators being on par with the CSC. Sorry, but I'll bank on absolutes over random chance any day of the week...

Thank you.

 

I personally don't have much of a issue with random numbers. They're used for EVERYTHING in gaming. I imagine almost every game you're ever played hadsome sort of random element to it. Real life IS random. Having the same person toss a ball 10 times will resort in 10 distinct tosses. The key is you gotta use the random nums in a way to make the game look/feel convencing.

[zerowingzero]

Heh i didnt know laz was actually scaring people away from promod... he is by far the best saberist, so don't feel bad if you can't beat him consistantly.

 

As for the CSC thing, most people don't get what it actually reinforces, looking straight at your opponent is pretty much looking forward, because in 1.04, only the mid point of your swing (in front of you) does the damage, not the begining or the end of your swing. Promod has the same thing, it's not really anything thing new, try hitting someone with the end of a right to left swing in red in 1.04 and they'll probably take like 5 damage.

 

And that lag thing... gah, someone came to the server and gave the saber system a very poor rating because he has 56k... well FYI, even in base jk if you have extreme lag, your hits don't register properly, and you still have to look straight at your opponent.

 

And there is a new gametype that's very popular on artifex's server: server vs laz tffa

[ksk h2o]

and the son of a gun still hands it out to the server on most occasions hehe.

[razorace]

Originally posted by zerowingzero

As for the CSC thing, most people don't get what it actually reinforces, looking straight at your opponent is pretty much looking forward, because in 1.04, only the mid point of your swing (in front of you) does the damage, not the begining or the end of your swing. Promod has the same thing, it's not really anything thing new, try hitting someone with the end of a right to left swing in red in 1.04 and they'll probably take like 5 damage.

Actually, if you've ever check out the code, you'd see it's a damage ramp "hack" based on a timer rather than the actual attack animations. I don't think it's very good myself but it's about the best you can get without totally rewriting the saber code.

 

As for CSC, at far as I understand, it's based on angular differiences between your opponent (probably his model origin vector) and your crosshair. Now, this isn't a generalized system, this is very errr..percise system. Slight deviation means life or death. This is much more lag sensitive than basejk2 (more client input requirements for gameplay calculation) and puts a huge amount of empisise on aiming the crosshair directly at the other players than actual tactical manuvering and saber play. That's why I don't play Promod. Plus, it makes bot play basically futile because the bots have perfect aim by default.

[zerowingzero]

The CSC aim isnt the only factor, there is also the following factors:

If you are runing or walking

what style you are using

If you are crouching

If you are moving forward or backward

If you are falling or jumping

 

You can still have really bad ping and that doesnt mean every attack of yours will get blocked or parried away, a top down hack in red is still a top down hack, and a slice to someone's side in yellow still does damage. Now unless you have really high ping, 200+ ect, i doubt that the game would be very playable anyway.

 

 

Maybe i should make some demos on saberfighting...

[ksk h2o]

bots do not have perfect aim by default but can be given perfect aim in their behavior file. Bots are a lot more challenging in promod but are by far not as deadly as the noobest noob.

 

The CSC and aiming is just something that makes sense to me. If it makes it more lag-sensitive, well, it does and it should. Lag does matter. It mattered when rail-gunning someone in quake and it matters now if you want to land a perfect one hit kill. As ZWZ pointed out, there is a lot more in play than just the CSC.

 

Saber fighting is a lot more tactical than basejk since you will have to maneuver around your opponent or dodge, deflect attacks untill a good time to land a hit presents itself. Saberplay in promod is very tactical, unfortunately you wont see much of it in a FFA. The duel servers running promod will give a much better glimpse of what a NF saber fight is like. Why I like it? It basically blows every stupid old basejk exploit out of the water. Anybody dumb enough to spam pull-trow, pull-kick, dfa, gk will just get rocked out of gameplay. The regular saber hits are so deadly that it beats the purpose of trying to spam these moves till you kill someone. This doesn't mean that kick, throw grip is useless of course... they are probably not the means by which you will take off 80% of your opponents life though.

[razorace]

Anyway, you guys would argue about this until you're all blue in the face.

[Mex]

In promod you dont even get a chance to dodge or anything, as soon as you see that sabre you are dead.

 

And aiming? How dumb is that, it still hurts the same as long as you hit them!

 

And lag, thats really unfair, just say a 56k connection person comes in, and a person with DSL comes in, the 56k dies without a doubt..

 

And what about people with 10-30 fps, they have no chance, when I play JK2 I have to play with 15-20fps, thats why I never play anymore, because it is so jerky, as soon as you run you see a man teleporting across the map and bam you are dead.

 

 

 

Not the most enjoyable mod. More like a DSL only mod.

[zerowingzero]

Ok so i should stop arguing and just lose? naaaa

 

 

 

1) If as soon as you see a saber you die YOU are bad, not the mod, because as soon as I see a saber i don't die. Go figure.

 

2)i didnt see how the mod makes you have crapper fps

 

3) 56k? Boohoo. That's how all games play. How about there is a mod that makes it turn based so you don't lag? comon.

 

Lag DOES matter in promod like it matters in basejk, quake, UT, CS. I don't see how that's an argument on the mod, explain this to me please because usually i'm looking at the person i want dead in....every fps game

 

 

-ZWZ (promod "groupie" because i know how to play the mod)

[razorace]

Ah yes, the good old "your computer/you suck, not the game/mod." arguement.

[ksk h2o]

come on razorace, what else would you say to a troll like that? I mean the guys bitching about the mod bc he is trying to play an FPS game online on 56k, nowadays 56k is only good enough to play MMORPG's. When I play basejk on56 it is just as bad as any mod.

[Mex]

I wasnt saying that the mod slowed down my FPS, I was saying that my FPS was already slow.

 

And I dont have 56k, I was talking about people who do have 56k.

And ksk h2o I am not a troll, I was saying that I didnt really like the mod.

[Moradivh]

On Art's server I usually have a ping at around 100. Most people there are around 50. I still kick ass, for the most part.

 

I've played on promod servers based in the UK, where my ping is closer to 250. And I'm still usually in first place.

 

If my ping is higher than 250 on a server, I'll go find another. If you're on a 56k that REGULARLY gives you pings of 300+ (not talking to anyone in particular here), then you shouldn't expect to become the ultimate promod warrior. If you're clever you can still do fine, but it is a handicap. And with a ping that high you'll only do mildly better in baseJK.

 

On Artifex's server there's usually a MASSIVE difference in skill level between players. On the one hand you have the promod elite, and on the other you have a horde of cocky baseJK veterans who're trying the mod for the first time. The latter get gutted like pigs, and they decide the mod is totally stupid and unfair.

 

But if you have the patience to learn the system, you'll find that most promod saber battles are long and drawn out. The only exception I've seen is when I fight Lazarous. And even then I've had fights with him that have lasted serveral minutes, but I have to be really careful/on the ball to live that long.

 

Lazarous is an extreme case in promod. New players are foolish to expect to last long against him. What did you expect? He's the best FFA saberist in promod right now, the very top. Also, I've fought him alot more than any of you guys, and I promise that he DOES NOT kill with one medium swing, not when you're at full health and wielding a saber. In promod that's impossible.

 

There are 3 things that make Lazarous so immediately lethal:

 

1) Chaining combos that're so fast you think he's just swinging once.

2) Almost perfect aim and timing.

3) Predicting your movments and actions -- he'll calculate exactly when you'll open your defenses and then destroy you. Laz is really smart that way.

 

If you're not used to fighting him, you'll usually die the second you're within range of Laz's saber, unless you're some sort of super-talented celebrity saberist from baseJK with an attack style Laz has never seen before. But he doesn't hack, he doesn't use any promod exploits that aren't counterable if you're experienced enough, and I've been able to kill him quite often 1on1, or at least put up a long, sustained fight.

 

EDIT: also, about FPS.... I just got owned by a Sith named Draz on ffa_ns_streets. He was complaining about how horrible his framerate was on the map, but it suuuure didn't stop him from butchering me and everyone else on the server. Damn grip-tosser....

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Moradivh

On the one hand you have the promod elite, and on the other you have a horde of cocky baseJK veterans who're trying the mod for the first time.

 

Speak for yourself.

 

Do you go by "Blind Moradin" on Art's server, or is that some other player?