Moradivh Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Yeah, I be he. You got some dirt on me or something? BTW, I'm not saying all the vets who're new to promod are cocky and closed-minded. If that were true nobody would ever get into it. Sorry for the generalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerowingzero Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 allright fine razorace, whatever: Plase state valid reasons why the mod is so bad, and i'll leave you alone. Simple enough eh? Remember the MOD, not your pc/conenction (YOU SUCK!, that's what i'm saying allright.yeah.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by Moradivh Yeah, I be he. You got some dirt on me or something? LOL - nah, I was Pariah, if you remember me. ZWZ's freund. I just didn't like that enormous generalization you just made. EDIT - damn, you're a fast editer! You're quite the nice guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradivh Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Hehe, sorry. That WAS kinda offensive. My bad. You're one of many many exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mex Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 I will try promod first thing in the morning to see if I can improve and then I might like the mod... Hope 2 C U all on the server tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by Moradivh Hehe, sorry. That WAS kinda offensive. My bad. No harm. But I'm sure you had a reason for making that generalization - how do most "basejk veterans" react when they play the mod for the first time? B!tch and moan? I expected to get slaughtered upon entering the server, but it wasn't that bad. Then again, I don't consider myself a vet at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradivh Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Unfortunately I can't guarantee a reception. Things are pretty quiet on the promod servers nowadays (we need more active players), and I can't imagine the morning being peek play hours. I myself don't play till it gets dark. I can usually find a game at night with people on it, but not always. Fortunately on weekends Art's server is often crowded, late in the day. EDIT: Cjais, most players aren't smart enough to turn on auto-download when they try joining the server, so they don't even get in. A connecting player is rejected almost every minute on Art's server... it's tragic. The few that do get in usually play for 15-20 minutes, get plastered, and then leave without saying a word and never return. A few are brave/cocky enough to declare the mod "gay" before they go, or get into arguments, but usually they say nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by Moradivh EDIT: Cjais, most players aren't smart enough to turn on auto-download when they try joining the server Most players should have the brain capacity to check out the modding community of their current game. If they can download skins from jk2files (or wherever), they can damn well download maps and mods too. Grrr.... As for Promod, I'll play it as soon as I see some European servers with players in 'em. I'm not very good at adjusting to lag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksk h2o Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 moradin is right. you usually see: DarthJizzKilla connected DarthJizzKilla was sabered by Blind Moradin DarthJizzKilla was smashed by Lazarous DarthJizzKilla was riddled by ZeroWingZero DarthJizzKilla was anihilated by Doctor Shaft DarthjJizzKilla was sabered by Sir Brass DarthJizzKilla received a swift kick to the face by Count Toonces DarthJizzKilla was thrown to their doom by <><> DarthJizzKilla disconnected Or the every second: XX connected, XX disconnected when they don't have autodownload on. It does take a very cool attitude and humility to stick around on arts server nowadays... except for the great shooters who connect, learn how to assign level 4 guns and start blasting everyone out of the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by zerowingzero allright fine razorace, whatever: Plase state valid reasons why the mod is so bad, and i'll leave you alone. Simple enough eh? Remember the MOD, not your pc/conenction (YOU SUCK!, that's what i'm saying allright.yeah.) I've already stated why I personally don't like ProMod. If there's any trolling going on here, it's the original poster who violated current forum rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Break_dF Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Originally posted by razorace I've already stated why I personally don't like ProMod. If there's any trolling going on here, it's the original poster who violated current forum rules. tru dat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradivh Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Yeah, can't deny it. This never shoulda been posted. Fortunately it's progressed into a semi-interesting debate (for me at least, dunno if I'd win a vote)... but until an admin locks/deletes the whole thing, I'm gonna keep arguing like the mindless blue faced yes-man I am. I think razorface's reasons for not liking promod are pretty flimsy. It's not like tactical maneuvering and acrobatics aren't a factor in the mod -- quite the contrary, one might say there's even MORE maneuvering required, as each opponent is striving to get to his opponent's backside or less guarded angles, while still remaining on target. Feints and unpredictable movements are just as life-or-death as your aim. So, you've got to learn to face your opponent... big deal. Have you ever played a first-person shooter online? Have you ever fired a gun in JO? Big aim and maneuvering emphasis, as each opponent tries to score hits while out-dodging the other guy. Promod's no harder to learn than that, and no more unfair when it comes to lag. If you want to be a godlike player then you'll want a low ping, but if you're satisfied with merely doing WELL on your average server, then latency really isn't that critical. Besides, most of the game's combat animations were designed with the thought that your opponent was actually facing you at all times. So as far as I'm concerned the CSC just makes it look and feel more like an actual swordfight. But Idunno, maybe these aesthetics don't concern you, being a saberist. Maybe you 're looking for a less reflex-oriented, almost turn-based swordfighting game... where lag is less important and you have more time to out-think your opponent. Or maybe BaseJK has this absolutely perfect mix of no-aim swordplay you couldn't live without. Well, to each his own I guess. But if you do get any pleasure, or have any pride in your ability to think quickly in online games with the Quake3 engine, I don't think the CSC will get in your way for long. Still I understand if people just don't wanna bother learning a new system for this old, tired game. And I understand if their lag is terrible, and they can't find a popular promod server with less than 250 ping, and don't want to learn with such a handicap. But considering all the swings and force powers that are suddenly USEFUL in promod saber combat, as well as all the class-based opportunities and sheer variety of gameplay compared to BaseJK, I sure ain't going back. So there's MY personal view. Kinda long... but hey, ignore away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerowingzero Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Originally posted by Moradivh Yeah, can't deny it. This never shoulda been posted. Fortunately it's progressed into a semi-interesting debate (for me at least, dunno if I'd win a vote)... but until an admin locks/deletes the whole thing, I'm gonna keep arguing like the mindless blue faced yes-man I am. I think razorface's reasons for not liking promod are pretty flimsy. It's not like tactical maneuvering and acrobatics aren't a factor in the mod -- quite the contrary, one might say there's even MORE maneuvering required, as each opponent is striving to get to his opponent's backside or less guarded angles, while still remaining on target. Feints and unpredictable movements are just as life-or-death as your aim. So, you've got to learn to face your opponent... big deal. Have you ever played a first-person shooter online? Have you ever fired a gun in JO? Big aim and maneuvering emphasis, as each opponent tries to score hits while out-dodging the other guy. Promod's no harder to learn than that, and no more unfair when it comes to lag. If you want to be a godlike player then you'll want a low ping, but if you're satisfied with merely doing WELL on your average server, then latency really isn't that critical. Besides, most of the game's combat animations were designed with the thought that your opponent was actually facing you at all times. So as far as I'm concerned the CSC just makes it look and feel more like an actual swordfight. But Idunno, maybe these aesthetics don't concern you, being a saberist. Maybe you 're looking for a less reflex-oriented, almost turn-based swordfighting game... where lag is less important and you have more time to out-think your opponent. Or maybe BaseJK has this absolutely perfect mix of no-aim swordplay you couldn't live without. Well, to each his own I guess. But if you do get any pleasure, or have any pride in your ability to think quickly in online games with the Quake3 engine, I don't think the CSC will get in your way for long. Still I understand if people just don't wanna bother learning a new system for this old, tired game. And I understand if their lag is terrible, and they can't find a popular promod server with less than 250 ping, and don't want to learn with such a handicap. But considering all the swings and force powers that are suddenly USEFUL in promod saber combat, as well as all the class-based opportunities and sheer variety of gameplay compared to BaseJK, I sure ain't going back. So there's MY personal view. Kinda long... but hey, ignore away! Tru dat (doesnt seem like a valid reply now either) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Thanks for the plug, I'll try it out if I find out where to download it...and merc vs. jedi was fun in 1.03, but i didn't see any games of it in 1.04.....neways *goes and downloads* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Shaft Posted December 31, 2002 Author Share Posted December 31, 2002 Well, I certainly apologize if I have violated any forum rules concerning plugging mods or what not. I seriously did not know, and if my post is considered nothing more than "spam"... well, like I said before, I wasn't aware that I was doing wrong. Regardless, I feel that so far the conversation in here hasn't been entirely inflamatory and useless, and maybe some people WILL give it shot after being bothered about it so much. As has been warned several times already, try it if you wish or don't try it, but when you try it, EXPECT to lose. Or you're really good and you will win. Too many people seem to be disappointed or they don't stick around when they join in a game and get ruthlessly murdered. You just have to get acclimated to what's going on. Anyway, this will be my only shameless plug thread. No more will be coming to offend the general public. I was just getting tired of reading threads about activating cheats and making new saber colors. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Ok, I downloaded the thing, and played it for the last hour or two. Here's the impression I got from it (I also know Artifex from his early days, when he was one of us, n00bies, and I payed attention to some of his posts so I kinda know what he liked and didn't like, and I see he kinda reflected it on this mod.) Allright, first, I only saw a few servers with this mod on, like five or six, which ain't too good, so I wrote down three IP adresses (from the Qtracker, and I can't really launch FROM QTracker because I get an error when it tries to enter the game, and the master server search don't work for me all of a sudden today...neways>) and went in-game. When I tried to enter the first server I got some error message that I didn't have some file...(not the map, and it wasn't any version difficulty, don't know what the error really was), second, I entered and got the feel of the new player interface. The change of the inner and outer color of the saber is great, it allows more colors and I really like it more than the default pick you can choose in the official patches. Secondly, the merc/jedi selection was REALLY done great and couldn't of have been done better (at least my brain can't make it better in my mind ). So I set my force powers and all that, and try to get ready to test the mofoer, when it turns out the server is stuck for some reason and I'm getting 512 ping from a server that starts with 217. IP number which is identical starting number for my IP O.o. Ok, I'm thinkin now that this isn't gonna work for me at all, and then I try the third server. I manage to get to the interface, and ACTUALLY IN GAME!!! (no players though, figures because the whole world was asleep when I did it except Japan and China). So I get in the game and first there were two new things, for what I figured were speedometers???, anyway, I walk around a bit, wave the sword, try out the forces, notice that the HEAL was FINALLY DONE RIGHT by someone who didn't actually make the game. Raven got it wrong in 3 tries, this mod has it right. Spends half your gauge, for 45 (or 50, forgot the exact number, and not half the gauge for measly 25 which ain't worth spending the points on heal) thing handles pretty well. I also noticed in red stance you can chain 3 repetitive attacks while you can chain always 1 less in base. So as I'm getting bored waving that stupid sword alone, a guy called -----(I remember where he's from but I don't remember his name, I never remember any names usually, possibly has something to do with the fact I'm an idiot), so I use him as the gunea pig for testing the damage levels. Use the blue, yellow and red stance, and it looked like blue takes off 35-40, yellow knocks off more than 90 (don't know actually, it killed him with one blow lol), and red kills off 100/100. I'm thinking THANK YOU MOD MAKER for bringing 1.03 closer to me, nerfing stuff like Raven did just made the game more ****tier each turn. We try out his guns, guns do more damage then they do in the official mod, which is pretty great because if you're doubling the damn sabre, at least give the weaker weapons some balance. The bryar actually became useful now with double recoil speed, finally. The only problem the guy had was that he couldn't find how to use the jetpack and since I was new too, I didn't know either. I still actually don't know Anyway, new level comes up, he turns into a jedi cloth too, and we go abouts dueling eachother (k, no forces etc.). Now here is where it gets a bit interesting, I'm not really sure werther to + this or - it, it has uses but....uhm, well read and see for yourself. Ok, I use red stance usually, and I see he is using blue or yellow. So we start fighting, and the guy literaly kicks my ass all the time. He lead for about double than what I could achieve in kills. There was also this big circle around my crosshair which I had no idea what it meant at the time (and I'm still not totaly sure ). Now as he's kicking my ass big time, I'm begining to think what the hell is wrong with me, every strike I land on him is blocked, every strike he lands on me hits outright, massive damage. And he isn't turned towards me when he's striking , which really boggled my mind, because I'm always facing him. So he ends up kicking my ass over double on that map (ok true I killed myself about 3-4 times when I was alone, but still). So at that point I'm begining to think that the future ultra-n00bies will be able to wave around like headless flies and actually WIN stuff. Anyway next map, I choose not to give up since there is still more than 50% chance that I'm just abnormaly sucking since I dropped the game for a long time, and that I lost the feeling of the timing. So next game, I try to observe him, he still kicks my ass, but this time we have equal kills to about when the score was 5. At that time I figured him out totally, and saw his patterns, so afterwards I managed to maul him up to 13-5 before he had to leave. The thing was that he wasn't really REALLY new. His timing was like perfect at most times, and I noticed him trying to ass me (complex I had and still have occasionally, it stuck with me from 1.03 ) a couple of times when I'd be stuck in the aftershock of a DFA, and he would always strike me when I'd be waving the red swing. So we finally come to the conclusion. Adding up all this stuff, well, here's how it turns out. With this mod the newbies will have the default advantage of using the blue and yellow stance by just waving the sword into oblivion. This is how the specifically BLUE stance will become greatly useful. In 1.03 and 1.04 anyone who uses the blue stance is dead within seconds from anyone who knows that red and yellow are the key of usage. However, with this mod, normal safe swings with red are no longer the key to victory. This time you have to be a guy that TIMES the attack just right, or otherwise there will be no ultra damaging hit. So you actually may need to develop some ACTUAL TACTICAL skill in order to use and win in this mod because the damage that the "swingers" can deal you is catastrophic and you'll find yourself dead if you don't go out and buy some skill. End points, this mod depends on what sort of a view a person has. Ultimately, it'll come down to people evaluating werther or not is it worth for the yellow and blue stance to have as much power as they have in this promod, because it sets the ultra-newbies higher than the average skilled player in jkbase 1.04, which ultimately leads to a lot of whining of the sort "THIS MOD SUCKS I LOST, WHAAAAAAAAA", or in short, you can read what Flanders wrote. My opinion? I'll keep using this, rather to reign in hell then serve in heaven is my opinion. Sure, you get to play the wide and official stuff with 1.04 but what do you really get? The ability to kill anyone in a time frame of 2/3 span that will take to finish the map? In 1.04 almost every second it went through my mind "What's the point?" I mean I went yesterday into a game full of people with squad marks, which means they oughtta learned something out of the game while I was away, I do three duels, win two, lose the last one. And I didn't even shake off the rust, actually when I quit was when 1.04 came out, so I had no actual experience in 1.04 whatsoever. I actually think I may develop some skill in this mod, and a more correct timing as well as BLOCK HOW I WANT TO, not set the thing to default/random and pray it blocks the oponents move. The mod? It is still rough around the edges, like having force push in a no-force duel (didn't try out the throw, but if it's in there, it needs to be thrown away), but genuinly it seems to be well balanced...let me rephrase...it seems to be more balanced than 1.04, if you can call that thing balance... Anyway, I've been writing too much, time to quit or I'll give people who read this splitting headaches... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Aaaah! Christ, my head hurts! You might want take out the paragraphs...that would make your post a real monster! Hehe. Ok. First: in order to get the jetpack (which is essential for a gunner!) you need to lose ALL FORCE. No force. No saber. Nothing. Zilch. Then fill up "Gadgets" and assign a key (controls) to the Jetpack. The mod takes some getting used to allright! Playing 1.04 for a few hours and then jumping into a Promod-game is...well...suicide. We really need more European servers, though. I'd put one up, but having only a 256/256 DSL... Quick Q: I've asked this before, but don't think I got an answer then. How does lag affect hitting/blocking? If your aim is perfect (=you would block suucessfully) and the opponent with a better ping is, in reality, already behind you hitting your bare unprotected butt...who wins? My block is as perfect as is his hit is clean. Higher ping = dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 I had like 50 off that server, and I live in Sweden. The other guy had 100 and managed to kick my ass pretty good so I don't think it was the ping Erm, and I think he didn't fill the gadgets thing, but good, I know for the future now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 BlackDove: RTFM!!!!!! Gah! Don't call blue and yellow stance useless in baseJk, please. For most, maybe, but not for everyone. Ping in promod means a lot, but not a huge difference from standard play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mex Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Well I would actually play promod right now if there was someone on the bloody servers...... EDIT: I played for a few mins a few minutes ago, it was quite fun, even tho the guy wooped my ass, I was a mercinary he was a jedi, I used my E-11 Blaster with full points on the skill and it ripped him to shreads, but he started to use blue and not swing so often, so I couldnt get a hit. Then he took advantage of me no having force powers, which was smart, I could hear him using force seeing, I walked around, then out of no where he killed me! Then I started kicking his ass, for a few seconds, but then, he got the best of me, and he had to go. I change what I said about this mod, 8/10! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksk h2o Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Wow, dove, very well written. It really helps if your read artifex's promod page on what is what, what the csc does, what the gauges at the bottom are and what stances have which advantage before you play promod. There is a trump system which gives a certain stance a blocking and defense breaking advantage over the other one in order to create a paper, rock, scissors like circle. Blue beats (trumps) yellow, yellow trumps red, and red trumps blue. This doesn't mean you will get killed every time when you use red against someone using yellow, but as you pointed out, you have to really time your attacks well. Since the red swing is slow and yellow trumps it, your opponent can deflect your attack and land a quick two hits that will kill you before you recover, or you could fool him into attacking and kill him outright with one red swing. The trump system is being reversed in 3.1 where its going to be red>yellow>blue>red. I hope more europeans start playing promod so we can actually have games going on our time slots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Didn't read it yet, will do, and the system sounds all well and good, but don't you think that the people who know that and are advanced a bit will change their stances constantly and never get any fighting done? But better that than random, or as it was in 1.03, red beating any other stance Originally posted by Cjais Don't call blue and yellow stance useless in baseJk, please. For most, maybe, but not for everyone. I was gonna say that in the long run if you get familiar with the promod so much (and attain some skill), those are the two most powerful stances, right? Artifex's main complaint was that blue and yellow stances were worthless so I assumed he was gonna make em strongest in his mod. Don't know if I'm right tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Originally posted by BlackDove I was gonna say that in the long run if you get familiar with the promod so much (and attain some skill), those are the two most powerful stances, right? Artifex's main complaint was that blue and yellow stances were worthless so I assumed he was gonna make em strongest in his mod. Don't know if I'm right tho Ahhh... sorry then, I misunderstood you I think Artifex wants to equalize all the stances, but make them individually better at defeating each other, as Ksk pointed out. How he's going to do this, I have no idea.... But I agree, Red in 1.04 is über, and as Arti said, it has a brutal bug exploit where it gives way more damage than intended (EG: vertical downward slash). If only Raven realized that Red stance has far too few shortcomings to justify its insane damage, compared to the other stances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 No, no you didn't missunderstand, I kind fo contradicted myself lol. What I mean is that s who like to see that sabre move will use those stances for just laming the air around them, (and now the added part which I didn't put in the original post because I forgot, there was a lot to write O.o) was that if you get some skill, you can actually use the two stances more to your advantage then just using the red one. Although if they go in a circle of contradicting eachother the logical thing would be that the equalibrium is neutral. Erm, never mind, was just thinking out loud lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradivh Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 Yeah, at this stage promod isn't perfect. The trump system's a little iffy right now. Blue stance ain't powerful enough for my taste, red is occasionally useful and I've developed a couple of devastating combos for it.... but top players like Lazarous simply use nothing but yellow stance. As for gunners, the Golan is overpowered in my view, and the bowcaster underpowered (though this and many other things are fixed in the coming patch). And if critics or promod haters look hard enough, they'll find other flaws in the system. It may be tighter and better balanced than 1.04, but it's still got problems. Perhaps Promod's biggest saving grace is that these problems WILL be fixed eventually. With Raven you never know. But Artifex is an experienced player who's devoted to balancing the game. And he WILL pull it off, hell or high water. So with promod, you've basically got a long-term guarantee of balance, which is more than you'll ever get from Raven or LA. Artifex is also a lot easier to debate with than the companies. He's the sole author, so if you can convince him to add a new feature or tweak aspects of the mod a certain way, it could happen. O'course, your idea would have to be pretty strong/feasible/meld well with Art's own plans for the mod, and might require alot of arguing on the promod forums, but the possibility exists. I know Art's planning alot of ambitious changes to promod, stuff that'll turn it more into a TC. But I honestly don't think he'll add any changes that won't improve gameplay. His foresight and research is incredible when it comes to this stuff. Back when I first heard about promod I thought Art's CSC idea was ridiculous, but upon playing the mod I was amazed at how natural (but also subtle) the change was. So basically, I'm convinced he knows what he's doing, or at the very least will listen and make adjustments if any serious mistakes are made. And so far I've seen no serious mistakes, so... cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.