CHANGES/IDEAS FOR UPCOMING SEQUEL/EXPANSION thread

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

Ballistic, you seem obsessed with the idea that the engine IS the game. Half Life was based on Quake, yet it plays nothing like it. Counter-Strike could have been made for Quake, but it was instead made for a heavily tweaked version of the engine that was more suitable for the gameplay.

 

Doom 3 is going to be slow-paced, if Quake 4 is going to match the success of Quake 3, it needs to be fasted paced. As a result, for a game of the Jedi Knight series' historic pace, a developer will use the Quake 4 code as a base instead of the Doom 3 code. Its just common sense.

 

Fact: the less changes you have to make to an engine to make the game how you want it, the better.

[razorace]

In thread in one sentence: We want everything regardless of how possible it actually is.

 

Seriously, I agree with most of the points that the thread starter made, but it's not very likely to happen. Buttonmasher games sell more copies than "simulations". Of course there's exceptions but (from LEC's POV) why risk it and/or go to that effort?

 

My mod team (Masters of the Force) is actually attempting to do a lot of the things you suggested.

[Guest Jolts]

someone needs to make a free swing saber system just to put that theory to rest once and forall.

[razorace]

Yeah, it's been done in "Die by the Sword". It didn't work very well with a keyboard/mouse combo. You couldn't respond fast enough with the mouse to make it FEEL like sword combat.

 

We have a different concept for controlling the saber in MotF, but that's classified.

[Unnamed Jed1]

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

Ballistic, you seem obsessed with the idea that the engine IS the game. Half Life was based on Quake, yet it plays nothing like it. Counter-Strike could have been made for Quake, but it was instead made for a heavily tweaked version of the engine that was more suitable for the gameplay.

 

Doom 3 is going to be slow-paced, if Quake 4 is going to match the success of Quake 3, it needs to be fasted paced. As a result, for a game of the Jedi Knight series' historic pace, a developer will use the Quake 4 code as a base instead of the Doom 3 code. Its just common sense.

 

Fact: the less changes you have to make to an engine to make the game how you want it, the better.

 

 

 

 

He’s right. ^

 

The reason DOOM 3 is going to be slower has nothing to do with engine limitations.

Yes the Alpha was a “rough cut” and will be optimized for better frame rates when it is released.

 

The slower pace is the development team wanting a “Resident Evil” like feel rather than a “run 90 mph and rocket jump all over the place” feel for the game.

 

DOOM 3 could run at a fast and frenzied pace like the games in the Quake series but that is not what the developers are aiming for in regards to the atmosphere.

 

A JK/SW game based on the DOOM 3 engine would simply be amazing.

 

Most people were taken by the lighting and overall graphics, but what really impressed me was the way objects like boxes and tables had “real world” physics when you interacted with them.

Most of the time in games when you interact with something like that it is simply you moving an object along a set path.

But in that engine the way you can literally have full and total control of the movement of background objects and alter their paths based on the same principals of velocity and angle that applies to the real world is amazing.

 

This may not seem like much to most of you, but take my word for it; you are going to see some amazing things done by clever programmers with this engine.

[razorace]

Assuming that the engine is a licensable engine in the first place. It's very possible that Doom 3 is TOO overdriven to be useable for "normal" games. If the game graphics are so high that you can't have more than 5 creatures in a room, the game won't be useable for JK3 (where you get into fights with 20+ people on the screen). PLUS, the 4 player client to client MP will have to be redone into a client/server system by Id for most people to even consider it licensing it.

 

Sides, all the information on Doom 3 is hype at this point. All the screenshots at this phase of development are specially prepared to LOOK good (and are often doctored by PR departments). Heck, if you looked carefully at the first set of pics in the PC Gamer, you could see that the poly count isn't THAT high (check out the monsters' lower torso/finger area). The pretty appearance of the game is mainly due to an assload of new texture techniques.

[P4ulo]

Hello??? what u saw of doom 3 engine was leaked alpha, what are u all talking bout? it wasnt even optimized.. quake 4 same thing, wait to see, then u can talk, u are all talking bout an alpha version of an engine that u dont have a clue of how it will end up.

I could be wrong, but i think (if) they will do the sequel or whatever game they will do it their way. Ppl have so many different opinions and desires. Im not sure they will ever listen to any of this sugestions.

I respect other ideas, but please...the majority seem to want to see a movie instead of a game.

And its true if u change all that u dont get a fps u get a rpg thats what u get (i dont like it, but u do, oh well who will they listen then ... no one )

[Rad Blackrose]

Originally posted by Reborn Outcast

Yea I would like to see vehicle and aircraft like in Halo. Also they need to scrap Kyle and make someone new and have the timeframe set in the Vong invasion. One more thing is, while using force powers lik,e lightning you should be able to use it with one hand and shoot with the other at the same time. Everything else I think is fine.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but last time I checked, Kyle was involved with the whole Vong bit.

[razorace]

Hello??? what u saw of doom 3 engine was leaked alpha, what are u all talking bout? it wasnt even optimized.. quake 4 same thing, wait to see, then u can talk, u are all talking bout an alpha version of an engine that u dont have a clue of how it will end up.

I wasn't talking about the alpha.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but last time I checked, Kyle was involved with the whole Vong bit.

The games don't have to follow the EU's storyline. A lot of people don't know who the heck the Vong are. That could translate into fewer game copies sold.. Sides, the Vong present tricky gameplay issues that would be hard to get around.

[FK|FallenOne]

No one knew who Kyle Katarn and Jan Oors were till the games came out. FYI.

 

Second, the Doom 3 engine might not be licenseable? WTF are you smoking? The only reason John Carmack made it WAS TO SELL IT OUT! Hence why Doom3 is just the original story with the new graphics engine. It's the same story and linear game. Just with the engine on steroids. Go read the E3 reviews in PCGamer from a few months ago that had the review on the alpha Doom3. It says in it that was Carmack's sole reason for building the engine, to whore it out and make a ton of money.

 

If it's an expansion they won't change engines.

 

If it's a new game I'd hope they'd get with Infogrames and Epic and use the UT2K3/Unreal2 engine. It's solid, tested and out to the public already. But with their contract with Activision it's more likely going to be through the Q3 engine still.

[Spider AL]

Originally posted by BallisticWookiee:

JO was set in the EU, so what exactly are you saying ?

 

What am I saying? What am I saying? The Expanded Universe is crap, that's what I'm saying! "Sun-crusher?" Please. And don't even get me started on the lameness of the 'Vong. The EU is basically the vile spawn of mediocre sci-fi authors employed at cutdown, hourly rates by LEC to mash their literary gums for about three-hundred pages.

 

Sure, there are some gems, "Courtship" and the DF novelisations were quite good. But frankly if enough monkeys type away for long enough, they'll produce the complete works of Shakespeare. No, the EU is incontrovertibly crap. Not just from a literary criticism point of view, but from a "faithfulness to the canon" point of view, too.

 

That part of JO that was EU was laughably feeble. Lightsabre crystals somehow used to imbue Reborn with the powers of the Force? Pull the other one, it has got bells on. Why didn't they just call it "The quest for Vader's magic gauntlets!!!11" and be done with it? Lightsabres aren't powered by the Force, so what do crystals have to do with it? Nothing, that's what.

 

What was good about JO was the mood and other aspects that mirrored the mood of the original SW trilogy well. The architecture was nicely consistent, the moves were similar, sounds were remeniscent, all owing more to the original trilogy than anything else.

 

If you want your game to feel like Star Wars, ANH, ESB and ROTJ at a pinch, are the way to go. God help us if the next game feels like Episode One...

 

Originally posted by BallisticWookiee:

Lucasarts make these games to further the Star Wars universe and give Star Wars fans like myself the opportunity to play the role of a Jedi in the SW universe. If they are not making the games so we can do this and enjoy an ongoing series in SW universe, then why in the world do they even bother ?

 

Ah, youthful naivete. They do it to make wodges of cash from their unassailable ready-market of fanboys who would buy a Star Wars game even if it was just Bubble-Bobble in a Vader-visaged jewel case. They don't have altruistic motives, as nice as that fantasy would be.

 

I don't buy SW games. I played JK once, loved the feeling, bought it, played it, bought JO, played that. It's best to buy a game because you like the game, mate, not because you'd like the game to be something it's not.

 

Originally posted by JDKnite188:

Get rid of Kyle. He is getting old. Good guy but let him rest.

 

He's barely middle-aged. Can you say "Alec Guinness?" What about "Christopher Lee?" or "Yoda?"

 

Besides the fact that Jedi become more powerful and k3wL with age, Kyle's staple now. A Dark Forces game without Katarn would be like a Tomb-Raider game without Lara Croft... in other words, stupid. Sure, petition LEC to make a Jedi FPS without Kyle... but make sure you suggest a new title for the series while you're at it. DF and JK are both Kyle's.

 

Originally posted by JDKnite188:

Why don't we become the Merchant? Bounty Hunter? Runaway political figure. We don't need to be Jedi, but we can encounter them.

 

I have an idea... The next Dark Forces/Jedi Knight game should be about a heroic Waiter on Drazen Isle!

 

Star Wars Galaxies is the game for you, I feel. JK/DF series = Jedi-based.

[razorace]

Originally posted by FK|FallenOne

Second, the Doom 3 engine might not be licenseable? WTF are you smoking? The only reason John Carmack made it WAS TO SELL IT OUT! Hence why Doom3 is just the original story with the new graphics engine. It's the same story and linear game. Just with the engine on steroids. Go read the E3 reviews in PCGamer from a few months ago that had the review on the alpha Doom3. It says in it that was Carmack's sole reason for building the engine, to whore it out and make a ton of money.

So why did he flat out molest the multiplayer code? You can't do squat with client/client! I don't care HOW pretty it looks, if the multiplayer is screwed up, the multiplayer is screwed up.

 

I wasn't implying that Id wasn't going to license it, I just meant that it's not going to be attractive license for at least a year.

 

And I agree with Spider AL. Most of the EU is entertaining, but still crap. Having the constant "The New Republic is DOOMED!" stuff isn't exactly what Lucas had in mind.

[Reborn Outcast]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Lightsabres aren't powered by the Force, so what do crystals have to do with it?

 

Umm but they're powered by the crystals. So the Remnant thought that they had some sort of power to them and that they could infuse the force into them. IT DIDN'T WORK!!! Thats when Kyle led them to the Valley of the Jedi which gave anyone who stepped in or whatever, force powers or boosted their force powers.

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

NJO is blasphemous to Salavatore fans everywhere. I know enough of the Vong to get the idea that the people in charge of the EU said "hey, this Salvatore guy knows how to write convincing evil bad guys, lets get him to rip off his entire Drow of the Underdark storyline and use it in Star Wars".

[Smood]

Originally posted by Spider AL

You're describing a beat-em-up game here. Sounds awful, slow, unwieldy and tedious. DF, JK and JO were all great fast-paced FPS games. I say, go onward in that tradition.

 

NO NOT TEDIUS AT ALL! I understand this game is a fps, but it is unique in that it focuses a lot of its core gameplay against the saber and dueling. Why not elaborate on this unique aspect of this STAR WARS fps. Fast paced games are great, but making dueling a bit more true to the movies would increase the game's uniqueness and value.

 

Let's face it, there are not that many players who hate star wars who are playing this game, so exemplify the highlights of this game that are unique and attract the audience which currently plays it!

 

It's an FPS. It's an FPS. I realise this will not make ANY impact at all, but I have to say it: It's a particular style of game. Change that style, and you have a different type of game. Petition LEC to make a Jedi-based beat-em-up if you wish... But leave the sanctity of the only decent Star-Wars-based FPS series alone.

 

Refer to above. BEAT - EM - UP? Obiously you do not understand my vision.

 

So, you hit someone in the foot, and their head falls off.

 

 

I think this is a terrible, nay, abysmal idea. I would recommend in its place, a system whereby if the sabre contacts the neck or head of the model, the head is severed. If the sabre contacts the thigh of the model, the leg falls off. An area-based damage system is long overdue.

 

I'am sorry you did not interpret what I said properly, this system you are describing is what I was suggesting. Only that if a saber passes through any main body part it should decapitate immediately.

 

 

More to come.

[Spider AL]

Originally posted by Smood:

I'am sorry you did not interpret what I said properly, this system you are describing is what I was suggesting. Only that if a saber passes through any main body part it should decapitate immediately.

 

No, I'm sorry you didn't interpret what you said correctly. To "decapitate" means to sever the head. You can't "decapitate someone's leg."

 

Unless your head actually sprouts out of your leg, that is. Possible.

 

Originally posted by Smood:

Fast paced games are great, but making dueling a bit more true to the movies would increase the game's uniqueness and value.

 

No! All it would increase is the number of fanboys who hijack games and servers so that they can spend half an hour swivelling and bowing to each other before an unimpressively skilless duel, while a huge crowd of fanboys pretending to be Chiss waiters watches them!

 

Jedi Knight games are fast-paced. Live with it.

 

Originally posted by Smood:

Refer to above. BEAT - EM - UP? Obiously you do not understand my vision.

 

Nah, I don't think YOU understand your "vision." Not only is it a dream, not to mention a netcode-programmer's nightmare, but its only possible purpose would be to assist fanboys in their eternal quest to pretend to be REAL Jedi. It bears no relation to good FPS gameplay.

 

Originally posted by Reborn Outcast:

So the Remnant thought that they had some sort of power to them and that they could infuse the force into them. IT DIDN'T WORK!!! Thats when Kyle led them to the Valley

 

Nonsense! Have you forgotten the big green "force crystals" strapped to the chest of every Shadowtrooper? If the crystals are what "didn't work" then what were they doing strapped to the chest of every tin-can in a five-mile radius? If the crystals are what "didn't work" then why do they push your Force meter to full when you pick one up? You want to know why? It's the stupid, cheesey EU rearing its ugly, plot-device riddled head again. THAT'S why.

 

There have always been some silly fools who believe that Lightsabres are powered by the force, and apparently some of them snuck into the story-meetings in Raven's offices prior to conceptualisation.

[Hekx]

Well JO2 is going to most probably be a different story and a new wig for Katarn.

 

It seems, from what I've read, some people want the next game to be more RP-based, while others seem to want it to be a general Q3- 'frag dem mofos'.

 

I wouldn't mind if the Q3 engine was used. I just want to see good features improved apon, and new features implemented.

 

But at the moment, I'm quite content with JK2.

I think JK2 still has potential and I don't see it dying for a while.

I can't wait to see what JO2 does about the 'fanboys' and 'gamers'.

 

And here's an earlier post I did about JK3 'stuff' I wanted included.

Originally posted by Hèkx Nòxú

Hopefully they'll add character customization for MP.

Make SP sabre combat either the same or similar to MP.

Kyle can either be a NPC or dead, and you can play as an apprentice or child of Kyle.

Manual blocking would be good, maybe a meter to control the force of deflecting.

I would like to see faster force regen / more force for Masters and less for Initiates.

Some RP elements would be nice.

SP should be more SW-like with the threat of the Darkside meaning you can fall to the Darkside.

If you do enough negative actions, your allignment will drop below average and eventually you will become a dark jedi.

Alternative endings.

Custom hilt creation / hilt selection.

Maybe some more sabre colours. (Silver / White / Light Blue)

Tons of other features I've heard people speak of, aswell as ones included in the JKIII poll.

 

I personally find a mix of RP and gaming to be quite satisfying for a SW game.

[P4ulo]

I´m sorry but all i see in this thread is speculation and some rpgers, bye

[Krelia]

Originally posted by P4ulo

I´m sorry but all i see in this thread is speculation and some rpgers, bye

 

werd

[Reborn Outcast]

Originally posted by P4ulo

I´m sorry but all i see in this thread is speculation and some rpgers, bye

 

No one asked you to post.

[Toonces]

Originally posted by P4ulo

I´m sorry but all i see in this thread is speculation and some rpgers, bye

 

Who cares???

 

It's a thread about ideas/speculation. Nobody forced you to read this thread

[JDKnite188]

When I said Kyle is getting old, I didn't mean literally old. I don't care if Kyle is a senior citizen. His character story is kind of being a bit stretched.

 

I was stupid to say "Lets be a [insert non-Jedi occupation] in a Jedi Knight game". I do have a question. Raven miserably tried to make decency in getting Kyle "disconnected from the force" so that we could all play to learn the force again. What is next for Kyle? Does anybody know? Does anybody even have a good story idea for the next game?

 

Personally, I am a mix of gamer and fanboy, but more gamer. When I played JO MP I ran with my saber against people with guns, because I thought that I was invincible. The saber was a shield to me. All it didn't block was explosive weaponry, shells, and the force: exactly what I was up against. Stupid me.

 

My "fanboy" persona just wants me to ask what will a JKIII be? Yeah, no jedi would be dumb, but is it just me or is it getting old running at people without sabers, hacking them, keep going, using force powers, and being unstoppable unless a n00b, arrogant dark jedi takes me on???

 

I think I go sleep and leave it to Raven, LEC, or whomever is going to determine what will come.

 

Yub Yub!

[Spider AL]

His character story is kind of being a bit stretched.

 

That's because of bad writing. MotS was actually better character development for Kyle than JO was.

 

Does anybody even have a good story idea for the next game?

 

I do, as a matter of fact.

 

I wish they'd pay me to write for them!

 

Perhaps I should get published first, and then ask for a job writing "believable" EU storylines. Who knows.

 

Until then, they, and you, and all of us, will have to do without me, the saviour of the SW canon. Seriously though, I think even... even... someone crap and feeble, could pull a better storyline out of his/her bottom, than the ones they've been peddling in the EU.

[Jeff 42]

"NJO is blasphemous to Salavatore fans everywhere."

 

What, like Salvatore is some kind of god? The man can't write worth crap. The AotC novelization is one of the most poorly written books I've ever read. The NJO and Salvatore are both terrible. They're good matches for each other.

 

So, yeah, I agree with the people who think bringing the Vong into the DF series is a bad idea.

[happydan]

i think jango has shown that mercs can be a match for jedi. they could make for interesting rocketpacked opponents... or even a variation of mercs.

 

or...

 

why not have the game set during the mandelorian wars, to integrate with the forthcoming kotor game? or is that too "fanboy"?

 

personally, i think all that bowing crap is lame. im a fan of the movies and some of tha EU, but jedi just dont act like that. and sith CERTAINLY dont... do what gets the job done, within the mandates of the jedi order. so, all that bowing stuff isnt "fanboy", just lame.