AutoCept Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 You're probably making a big deal out of nothing. First with all the people and countrys I don't think draft will be reatived. Second they normaly draft people without jobs that are not in collage or married first. So you probably don't have anything to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 You know, I'm scared here. I actually agree with what Munik is saying. It seems a bit ungrateful of some of you that you would take advantage of the rights and privileges bestowed upon you by the country and the people who protect it, but you are unwilling to stand up and give back a little. I've always supported the idea of making at least two years military service mandatory. I've seen some total losers go into the military, and come out clean cut, straight edged guys. Not only does it help your country, it helps you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmartDragon Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 not sure about that I used to live with an ex-armed forces bloke and I'm sure that he can't have been that big an arsehole when he joined at 17. scary thing is hes now at med school (I really don't want him as my Dr). But it does help some people better themselves but its definaty not for everyone. I'm not against the forces as I'm thinking of joining after I graduate, can't make me kill anyone then (that would be braking the hypocratic oath). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Originally posted by ShockV1.89 You know, I'm scared here. I actually agree with what Munik is saying. It seems a bit ungrateful of some of you that you would take advantage of the rights and privileges bestowed upon you by the country and the people who protect it, but you are unwilling to stand up and give back a little. I've always supported the idea of making at least two years military service mandatory. I've seen some total losers go into the military, and come out clean cut, straight edged guys. Not only does it help your country, it helps you too. I have no problems with service, so long as it won't require me to kill people. I CANT DO IT. The thought of it makes me physically ill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutoCept Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 And this is why you have the bond smilie in your sig? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Movies are entirely different from actual combat, AutoCept. Remember, there is a debate on whether or not young children can separate movies/tv violence with real violence. I'm not saying ET Warrior is a young child, but it's good that he can make that distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Originally posted by ET Warrior I have no problems with service, so long as it won't require me to kill people. I CANT DO IT. The thought of it makes me physically ill. I respect that, to some degree. But there's more than one way to serve. When I was looking at the Navy, I was offered the position of avionics and aviation electronics, as well as a spot on the nuke program for submarines and the reactors on the Nimitz carriers. None of those involved killing anyone. It takes all kinds to keep a military running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticSpade Posted February 14, 2003 Author Share Posted February 14, 2003 i agree with ET very much so. i will not support anything that deals with the detruction of another human being in any way. meaning workin on planes that drops bombs or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Even if not doing so will result in the invasion and hostile takeover of your country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticSpade Posted February 14, 2003 Author Share Posted February 14, 2003 i'm a strong believer in whatever happens happens. but i honestly doubt that we will succumb to a hostile takeover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 I'm talking about a hypothetical situation. Suppose our army abroad is wiped out, and everyone is needed to keep the invasion off the mainland. You mean you wouldnt go? If you live in the USA... very sad... If you're not willing to defend it, then you dont deserve to live here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticSpade Posted February 14, 2003 Author Share Posted February 14, 2003 basically if worse came to worst i would support my country and yes i do live in the US. i live in TX as a matter of fact. but until they absolutely need my skills i won't volunteer for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutoCept Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Originally posted by Aru-Wen Movies are entirely different from actual combat, AutoCept. Remember, there is a debate on whether or not young children can separate movies/tv violence with real violence. I'm not saying ET Warrior is a young child, but it's good that he can make that distinction. You really can't take a joke can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedantic Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 If it is needed, I think the draft would be a good idea. How else are they going to get more soldiers if needed? O_o And, yes, I would serve if called and not skip off to Canada or wherever. I find it sad that people would not wish to defend this country and what it stands for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 okay ET and everyone else who says they can't kill, you'll serve, but you won't kill. Okay, worst case scenario that everyone is trained for... Suppose you're at your base/ship/whatever, and the alarm goes off? Alarm? Means THEY got in. You get handed standard issue firearms*M16*and told you are gonna die here except for in the slim chance, and you're told to take as many of them as you possibly can. What then? Do you cower and die like a coward or do you fight back, albeit in vain? I've got issues when killing too. But obviously, the enemy has issues PERIOD. I say shoot first, ask questions later. Give me my M16 with Grenade Launcher attatchment, set me down in a city, and watch a Al-Queda muk-muk get blasted is how I see it...and if his wife and 20 children decide they wanna come at me with sticks, I fire my grenade into their hut and watch em all go BOOM! The only problem I have is killing innocent civilians. Unfortunantly, the enemy dosen't seem to have the same problem. Swear to God some little camel-jockey kid comes at me with a damn AK and I'll fire first... PS - Sorry for all the ethnic slurs and racist comments. I'm peace loving and what not, but I'll throw my instinct aside if the right to live in peace is threatened and I will kill to maintain that right. I'm obliged too. Just like every other American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Well said, Mydnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Slayne Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 The only way you would catch me in an army uniform and slinging a gun, is if somebody was invading the land in which I live (in my case Australia). Yeah, it is said that maybe we wouldn't last all that long but hey, one more rifle may just make the diference. But far as going off to some sand fly infested country to shoot at some other poor fool who may well prefer to have stayed home as well: You can bloody well count me out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 I think, put in a situation where it was ABSOLUTELY 100% necessary that I kill to protect the lives of the people I know and love, then I could do it. Remember, there is a debate on whether or not young children can separate movies/tv violence with real violence. I'm not saying ET Warrior is a young child, but it's good that he can make that distinction. I'm 17, just for the record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Originally posted by MysticSpade i agree with ET very much so. i will not support anything that deals with the detruction of another human being in any way. meaning workin on planes that drops bombs or something like that. Does that mean you will refuse to pay taxes as well? To put one more nail in the coffin of this supposed draft, let me remind ya'll of a time about a decade ago. The gulf war had just finished, and the U.S. was doing a little something called "reduction of force". Basically, dropping extra servicemen so they can again meet the pre-war quotas. "But wait Munik," you may ask, "How could there be more people in the military after the war then before it?". Simply put, people wanted to help the country in her time of need. Uncle Sam had a bunch of extra bdu's laying around, and was more then willing to accept all those qualified and desiring to enlist. This all happened without a draft. It also happened in spite of "peaceniks". Someone, somewhere, is willing to accept his civic duty. In fact, he will also accept yours. You don't have to join the military. You can cry "conscientious objector", and another young gentlemen will glady step up and do your job, as well as his own. And you can sit at home and be sad about it all you want. Maybe you could watch cnn and catch a glimpse of the young man who went in your stead, and then be sad about that. 'Cause he sure as sh*t isn't sad for you. P.S. Shock, we seem to agree on two things already. I hope this isn't becoming a trend, I would be loathe to know that my opinion does not cause conflict and strife with everyone. At the very least, I could hope to piss you off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticSpade Posted February 15, 2003 Author Share Posted February 15, 2003 naw i'll pay my taxes if i ever have a need to get a job (trustfund baby). but again if someone is more than willing to get shot in my place i will gladly let them go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Dude, I would think that someone who is 19yrs old would actually know that there are more taxes then just the income tax. I guess using the phrase "trustfund baby" is half right in your case. Also, being in the service doesn't mean you are a bullet catcher. The last war the US had against Iraq only had a few hundred casualties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Originally posted by munik The last war the US had against Iraq only had a few hundred casualties. Only had a few hundred casualties? That remark makes me sick to my stomach. You make it seem like there is nothing lost. Lives are lives, no matter how you look at it. Please don't talk like life is just some thing that can be handed out at will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 He means that, compared to previous military conflicts, a few hundred deaths is pretty low. Thats not to say it's nothing that hundreds died, but compared to thousands, or hundreds of thousands, or millions killed in previous wars... it's not really terrible. I think it was also in response to "I'm not going to war because I'm not going to die for anyone, and if I go I'll get shot." Not every single person who goes off to fight gets killed, and the US has proven themselves to be able to keep their people alive in Iraq (Vietnam was a learning experience, dont bring it up. Long time ago). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Ah, ok. From that point of view, it is a smaller number. I thought he meant that nothing was lost. My misunderstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticSpade Posted February 15, 2003 Author Share Posted February 15, 2003 no i know that there are sales taxes and such. i'll pay those gladly. when i get a job i'll pay my income taxes. but i will not fight for a war that i have no part in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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