C'jais Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Originally posted by Darklighter What I am getting at is that human beings are killing the world faster than it should be killed. Put it this way; would our planet survive longer if humans had never existed? My answer to that question is a simple 'yes', and that is what my speech was trying to say. We're not really destroying the planet, or killing it, we're changing it to fit ourselves as much as possible. The planet will most definately be destroyed when the sun explodes in a few billion years, but that's a long time ahead. I don't believe we're capable of destroying the entire planet, with all life included. A nuclear holocaust would not wipe out all life. The ecosystem would go on, albeit one suited for much simpler organisms. And please don't say the 'you're wrong, we as a species are a great asset to this planet' speech, because in my eyes, it is wrong. We're no asset, but we're not the opposite either - we're just here. Once you look at nature as something that's just there, including humans and technology, you can't really say that something works against nature or the "natural way of things and how they're meant to be" - things just happen. A nuclear war would end up destroying a lot of life, but it wouldn't mean the death of life itself. A meteor impact would do the same, and we don't look back at history and proclaim that "nature was cruel to itself" when the big mother crashed down and destroyed most life in the cretacious period. It just happened, everyone adapted to the changed climate, the world lived on. We are not in a position to place ourselves equal to other animals. We're something far more advanced, and we can't help ourselves when we change the environment to fit our needs. Any other species would do the same, given the tools to do it, as said before. There are no good or bad changes when viewed from above - just changes. And I thank you C'Jais, for picking apart my whole speech and genuinely making a fool of me Don't take it personal, friend I just have this itch y'know... However, look at it this way: If we were supposedly able to "terraform" other planets, making them hospitable to life and transforming them from barren rocks to lush forests, would you consider this "helping nature", or just changing the environment? It can go both ways you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted February 20, 2003 Author Share Posted February 20, 2003 Originally posted by Darklighter Put it this way; would our planet survive longer if humans had never existed? My answer to that question is a simple 'yes', and that is what my speech was trying to say. The planet would be better off without us. I wonder how you came to that conclusion. Who knows what evolutionary path the earth or one of the other species would've taken had we not been here? Who's to say that by us being here, we saved the world from some other more horrible evolutionary track? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova_wolf Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Nah - the only way Earth is gonna go is the Sun engulfing it. It would have been unspoilt for that little longe may be if we had remained mere chimps (although I suspect some of us are secretly still at that stage.... ) Nuclear war will turn Earth into a large ball of ash, but Earth will still exist, and some other form of life will take over. Ultimately, the human race can only really srew itself over... And I have a feeling that if it happens - good bloody riddance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Originally posted by C'jais Don't take it personal, friend I just have this itch y'know... Yeah I know, sorry m8:)lol I suppose I didn't take into account the fact that everything might in fact be predetermined. It was planned that we would evolve into a species that could break the boundaries of rational thought and begin to explore the outer realms of our capability. Maybe we are in fact a blessing (lol) but have just used our power in the wrong way. Or maybe we just need to learn how to treat each other and our planet more carefully (I believe humans need to learn a lot). I just get angry at our species sometimes, that we might be doing things all wrong. Sorry if I went off on one, I don't mean to. I agree C'Jais, that maybe we are just 'here', and as a species with as much ambition as ours, we need to discover right and wrong for ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmartDragon Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 good and bad of all tech look at clones, full human clone moral dilema, clones of certain cells forming new livers, arms etc good if we can get it right. and the human race will wipe its self and take most of the live on the planet with it, that is unless something changes fairly soon. what has to change I'll leave up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Bond Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Just a quick question: how can nature be beautiful? There is no structure, no order, no set uniform. If every tree were the same, in perfectly alligned rows, then maybe I'll let nature off. But they aren't. Plus, the drop brown leaves all over the place during Autumn. Bright, shiny steel buildings don't. Why put me in a cell, Reborn Outcast? Just because I don't like nature doesn't mean I like being cramped up in confined spaces! A nice massive lobby, with glass and marble-effect flooring is a large open space, but I love it (it's where I work sometimes... I travel a lot for my job). Global warming is rubbish. Saying things like the polar ice caps are going to melt and flood the entire world... yeah, right. I've been to the North Pole (well, quite close, but my team and I turned back after a slight problem) and I can tell you first hand that the ice there is not in danger of melting away. Take my advice: never believe anything you hear from people like "Greenpeace" or protesters who march against nuclear power stations, landfill sites and the such-like. Besides, without nuclear power plants, Homer Simpson would be out of a job (this is a joke, not meant to be taken seriously)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted February 20, 2003 Author Share Posted February 20, 2003 Originally posted by Commander Bond Global warming is rubbish. Saying things like the polar ice caps are going to melt and flood the entire world... yeah, right. I've been to the North Pole (well, quite close, but my team and I turned back after a slight problem) and I can tell you first hand that the ice there is not in danger of melting away. Take my advice: never believe anything you hear from people like "Greenpeace" or protesters who march against nuclear power stations, landfill sites and the such-like. You must've missed my previous post on this subject, so here it is again: Originally posted by Aru-Wen I don't know where you've been in science class, but the melting of the polar ice caps will happen much sooner than 10,000 years. However, the melting of the polar ice caps will NOT raise the sea level - check in any Oceanography book (or science book for that matter) : ice displaces the same amount of water as the liquid form will. Same principle as ice cubes in a glass of water - if the water is at the top of the glass and there are ice cubes in it, the water will not overflow when the ice cubes melt. However, with a hole in the ozone layer the size of Australia over the south pole, it's certainly not helping global warming. The only way the sea level will rise is if the Continental ice caps start melting - which they have, quite steadily in the last 40-50 years. Global warming is what causes the contintental ice caps to recede (melt) like that, and global warming is caused by greenhouse gasses - CO and CO2 are some of the worst - which are provided in large quantities by cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace_sundancer Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 bond, you are worrying me...'nature isn't beautiful because it's not symmetrical'? wtf kind of an arguement is that? oh and if you were going to go iinhale some CO2 why aren't you dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 technology is good and bad Bad: the more technology invented the more i have to go to school and learn made up stuff. Good: the more technology invented the more video games they will make and i can be happier. most of science is made up stuff that cant be proven, yeah maybe there is global warming, but i dont believe, i heard that every few thousand years the temperature rise a few degrees, in couple hundred more years it will go down. but of coarse none of that can be proven either. none of us will be alive when it happens so i wont worry about it. and if you dont know im going to tell you, just about every thing in your science class is made up, half of it cant be proven, they could have everything all wronge and we gatta sit there and memorize useless facts that i wont be thinking about when i grow up. thats what i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted February 22, 2003 Author Share Posted February 22, 2003 As your reply is ignorant and uninformed, I won't even dignify it with a proper response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Originally posted by Aru-Wen As your reply is ignorant and uninformed, I won't even dignify it with a proper response. ah good, u know im right so u cant say anything!!! come on u believe all that crap they tell us in science class, its all made up. i was wrong about that global warming thing though, although its not really called global warming, its called revelations. Man screwing up the planet then the antichrist comes. yeah thats what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedantic Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Originally posted by Commander Bond Just a quick question: how can nature be beautiful? There is no structure, no order, no set uniform. If every tree were the same, in perfectly alligned rows, then maybe I'll let nature off. But they aren't. Plus, the drop brown leaves all over the place during Autumn. Bright, shiny steel buildings don't. Actually, many things we find in nature are based on complex fractals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted February 22, 2003 Author Share Posted February 22, 2003 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 ah good, u know im right so u cant say anything!!! come on u believe all that crap they tell us in science class, its all made up. i was wrong about that glabal warming thing though, although its not really called glabal warming, its called revelations. Man screwing up the planet then the antichrist comes. yeah thats what it is. First off, I don't know how old you think I am, but "science class" was years ago for me. You're just showing your age and inexperience in the world. And if you think that "glabal" (I assume you mean 'global') warming is really what is written about in the book of Revelations... you've got issues. You're young - time will change the song you sing. And good call on the fractals, Pedantic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 (lol) oops i spelled it right earilier in this thread:D :D look there is no convincing u and no convincing me so we should quit arguing. technology is ok to a certain point. it has good points and bad points which everyone had figured out by reading this thread. and u started the science class thing, not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted February 22, 2003 Author Share Posted February 22, 2003 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 look there is no convincing u and no convincing me so we should quit arguing. technology is ok to a certain point. it has good points and bad points which everyone had figured out by reading this thread. and u started the science class thing, not me. When I brought up the science class thing, I was talking to someone else, and I was refering to them, not myself. You're right though, there's no point arguing, but I'm not trying to convince you anyway - just pointing out the difference between opinion and ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Originally posted by Aru-Wen When I brought up the science class thing, I was talking to someone else, and I was refering to them, not myself. You're right though, there's no point arguing, but I'm not trying to convince you anyway - just pointing out the difference between opinion and ignorance. [lol] come on that last line wasnt needed "- just pointing out the difference between opinion and ignorance." and u know that, theres no need to call anyone ignorant. oh well i guess we left on peaceful terms not being bitter enemies, over something neither of us can control. and ur the first guy to agree with me about that whole not convincing thing in an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacco Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I'm against human cloning cause it just seems wrong. This could have a negetive impact on mankind itself. But I am ok with animal cloning. Oh, did you hear that the first cloned sheep died recently at the age of six? That is half the life span of a regular sheep. Too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Originally posted by Commander Bond Just a quick question: how can nature be beautiful? There is no structure, no order, no set uniform. If every tree were the same, in perfectly alligned rows, then maybe I'll let nature off. But they aren't. Plus, the drop brown leaves all over the place during Autumn. Bright, shiny steel buildings don't. Nature is orderly. How do you think plants survive? By producing glucose by photosynthesis which needs to be in PRECISE order so it will work. And trees that all look the same and in straight lines? Thats kinda sick man. Diversity is what makes nature beautiful. A huge, looming oak tree with leaves orange and yellow in autumn. Next to it is a dark green pine tree, the scent coming off it is amazing. A bluejay is chirping in the oak while a cardinal is in the pine. A deer walks under the trees, nudgeing her babies with the buck close behind. That is what makes nature beautiful. And Chewbacco I agree with you completely. Also, I don't know if this is "technology" but it is kinda recent but cigarrettes. Those are harmful to the human society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Computers are evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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