Dagobahn Eagle Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 It's been a while since we've had a good discussion or debate here (not countingthe numerous threads on Iraq), so I gave in to the abstinences and posted a new one. Some time ago (about two years ago), the girl next door's parents separated. I knew a guy (allright, probably more than one, but he was the only one who I knew had divorced parents) who's parents were divorced already, but it still made an impression on me to see the reactions of that girl. To put it bluntly, she was Crushed with a capital c. 60% of all marriages in the USA end with a divorce. Now, I know that those all can't be meaningless. Or at least, I know many of the couples do not try hard enough to solve their problems (too many people break up just because "they get along, but they don't love each others anymore"). Also, most couples who divorce end up regretting it later on. So why do so many people have divorces? One of the answers, I think, lies in education. On school, we learn about divorces, but not about the negative effects of them. The media shows tons of divorces, but rarely the negative effects of them. I think many people simply do not realize how much it hurts -especially their kids- when they have a divorce. I'm a High School Junior (=11th grade, second last year), and so far I've learned about sex six times (I learned how to make kids twice) last year alone in, what, four years? I've learned about STDs perhaps two times; about homosexuality.. twice, and... never about relationships and running a family. There is a one-semester course on Family Life at my school, but few knows about it (I learned about it by chance only a few months ago) and fewer yet take it. Why is it this way? You may snicker at the concept of a "relationship school". But I say again: 60% divorce rate. Obviously, way too many don't know nearly enough about relationships. Way too many seem to believe the media's portrayal of marriage: Perfect all the way, and if it's in some way not 100% perfect it's not the right person and should should have a divorce. This is wrong. My parents had a period where they fought some time ago (even yelling at each others), but they got trough it and still love each others. In every relationship there are quarrels and disputes. If you don't like that, don't get a girl/boyfriend in the first place. This is what should be hammered into children since middle school. Children should learn about the effects of breaking up; about running a family (sharing duties, etc.); and about handling crises. The second reason, I think, is that divorce, in the USA as well as in Eurasia, is on the verge of becoming a part of culture. Sad but true. I may be wrong at this, but it seems that no matter in what direction you turn, you see people breaking up: It's, in my opinion, halfway something you're expected to do. Lastly (this is more of a reform thing but I think it holds true), I think society needs to be changed so that family is once again the center of peoples' lives. Right now, it seems businesses are, and while that may produce wealth and money, it's needless to say bad for your families. Let's look at it logically. You go to work to earn money. Why do you earn money, save from clothes, food, and a place to call home? Happiness. You know, trips to places and stuff. Now, in my opinion, neglecting your family for money is just fooling yourself. Your family is a big "fuel source" of happiness. The more time you spend with your family (especially talking), the better the family will work. And if you neglect your family.. yes, you may make it into the "high class", but you may lose your relationship with your boy/girlfriend/wife. Personally, I'd rather be in the low middle class with the girl I love, than in the high class without the girl I love. Just some statistics: Divorce rates are low in the poor classes, higher in the middle class, and higher yet in the rich class. See the pattern? So to sum up: To lower the divorce rate, we have to educate the people and make family the center of people's lives. I don't know if everyone here agree with what I'm saying, but please reply (especially married/engaged people like STTCT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young David Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Divorce SUCKS I know by experience, I know exactly what you're talking about and agree with you. There's to much education about sex and waaaay too less about love. But I do not feel about debating about it ... I stay away from everything that has to do with seksuality and love-relations lately. Oh yeah ... I could throw a bone ... 'People who are not christian should not be permitted to marry in church' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I agree. People get's divorced way too much. I also think it's really selfish to divorce if you have kids. I mean, just because of some quarrels you turn your own kids' life into misery? Divorces should be avoided as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zygomaticus Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 'People who are not christian should not be permitted to marry in church' Don't they marry in their own religious institutions? Where do atheists marry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young David Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Originally posted by krkode Don't they marry in their own religious institutions? Where do atheists marry? Well ... it's very common that people who never see a church on the inside and don't really believe marry in church. At least ... that's what happens here. That means that swear to stay together forever before God ... But it doesn't mean nothing to them ... so ... ahh this goes nowhere if you don't follow me .. 'm gonna go to sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Homer Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 It's hard to teach about love...because what is love? How would you describe to an alien (assuming they understand your language) what the emotion of love is? And it can never be one thing..."Love" education is almost impossible, relationship education is also almost impossible because relationships are dynamic, each it's own beast based on the two people involved. Sure there are similar types of relationships, but each is unique in their own way....my parents met & married in 6 months time, that has lasted almost 30 years now. Also, I dislike the very concept of divorce...I see it's need, but it seems that lots of marriages could be saved if they just tried to work things out a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted February 23, 2003 Author Share Posted February 23, 2003 In Norway, it's commonly accepted to have kids without marrying (in fact, my aunt and uncle married just last year, with kids the ages of 13 and 10). If anyone find that disturbing, too bad, I've got a counterargument for them. Anyways... It's hard to teach about love...because what is love? How would you describe to an alien (assuming they understand your language) what the emotion of love is? And it can never be one thing..."Love" education is almost impossible, relationship education is also almost impossible because relationships are dynamic, each it's own beast based on the two people involved. Sure there are similar types of relationships, but each is unique in their own way....my parents met & married in 6 months time, that has lasted almost 30 years now Hmmmmm... good points. What I should have pointed out is this: I'm not talking about a class (or classes, or just parts of classes), where they teach you about love (except some christian institutions where they actually do). What I mean is teaching about running a family, divide resonsibilities, respecting each others' differences, and solving conflicts. I agree that a relationship school in that sense sounds moronic (classes to teach you how to date, anyone:D?). I'll do some research on the Family class at my school and find out what it's all about. Because the fact remains, most people know too little on how to run a family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherack Nhar Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Although I do think there are way too many divorces going on in this day and age, I feel like I have to add that quite a few of them are actually beneficial, both for the couple and, if it applies, the children. I have a few friends that wish their parents would have split up long ago instead of remaining together... apparently it is now a living hell in their home, with constant bickering between the two adults. Some people keep their partners through manipulation, and then abuse them. Depending on the case, some divorces are actually a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted February 23, 2003 Author Share Posted February 23, 2003 Of course, I know that. Medicines are overprescribed, but hell, most of the medicine being sold helps the patients. Divorces are the same thing. All I'm saying is that couples should do what they can to stick together. In situations where they keep fighting, for example, it's not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artoo Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 *Agrees with Sherack mostly, Dagobhan a little* There is too much divorce, people need to not jump into marriage so fast. They jump in without knowing each other as well as they need to. You should know the person you plan on marrying at least 3 years in my opinion before you go through with the act. People marry each other without fully knowing the person they are marrying. Yes I believe there needs to be a relationships course in High School. It should be 1 semester mandatory. This will teach people about how to set themselves up for a good marriage and how to deal with problems they encounter. Heehee, you have to take a test to get a driver's license, why not one for a marriage license? Also agree with YD about the church thing. If you want to get a marriage license do it like you get your drivers license down at the police station. Let those who want to celebrate their bond with each other spiritually do so in the church, but don't have a church marriage service for a secular bond. It's just wrong. Heehee, and you guys call yourselves liberals. Divorce is a Liberal concept at it's most fundamental level. "Family Values" and staying together are Conservatice concepts. I'm not mad that you believe that divorce is not he answer, I just wonder where you really lie politically if you believe in such Conservative fundamentals. Next thing I know you'll be saying we need to go get Saddam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Originally posted by Artoo Heehee, and you guys call yourselves liberals. Divorce is a Liberal concept at it's most fundamental level. "Family Values" and staying together are Conservatice concepts. I'm not mad that you believe that divorce is not he answer, I just wonder where you really lie politically if you believe in such Conservative fundamentals. Next thing I know you'll be saying we need to go get Saddam. But on the other hand, if it were for the conservatives, women would still be forced to stay home all day, watching the children and serve her husband with no oppretunity to do what she wants. Also, science is certainly not a conservative consept. I'm not a liberalist anyway. Neither am I conservative. I'm not democrat, I'm not republican, etc. I have my own views of things, and I do not follow the views of others. (though my views are pretty close to those of the socialists) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted February 23, 2003 Author Share Posted February 23, 2003 What's with you and bringing everything down/up to politics, Artoo? If you're serious about the license for marriage, what about high school drop-outs? Shouldn't they be allowed to marry? I think family therapy, also, should be mandatory in divorce cases. However, those who go to therapy most often have made up their mind, sadly, and just divorce on principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edlib Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Originally posted by Artoo Divorce is a Liberal concept at it's most fundamental level. "Family Values" and staying together are Conservatice concepts. No they are not. It's just that conservative factions have made "Family Values" (whatever it means) thier rallying cry over the last few decades. That and trying to paint all liberals as freewheeling erotomanics who have no intrest in thier marrages or thier families. I personally know as many self-described conservatives who have been divorced as the liberals I know. I also know of gay couples or un-married hetero couples who have been together longer than most married couples and have have a stronger family unit than many "traditional" American families. I don't think it is an issue that is as simple as to which political ideology you choose to subscribe to. The problem of divorce is an all-American one. Too many people enter into relationships for all the wrong reasons, then are surprised when problems occur down the road. There is so much pressure on the people in this country to not be single that many of them latch onto anything, even if it's obviously not a healthy, stable relationship. I have seen kids in this country who feel that if they are not going steady with someone by the time they are 12 that it's too late for them. Everywhere you look marrage is being held up as the solution for a whole litany of problems, least of all loneliness. I just think that most people enter into marrage with an idealized, romantic view of what it's going to be like, willing to overlook some glaring fundamental differences between them and thier partner; only to find that day-to-day life with this person doesn't match the fairy tale promises that they have believed it would be like all thier life. A relationship built on this type of foundation will never be able to withstand any kind of emotional storm. Then, on the other hand; are people who suffer their entire lives through a bitter, angry, loveless marrage really better off? Are they that much more noble because they won't seperate or divorce? Even though they may be turning to adultery, and giving thier children emotional problems and a warped view of what family life should be like? It's a complex issue, one that cannot be solved with a simplistic catchphrase like "Family Values." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by krkode Where do atheists marry? A courthouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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