Darth-Igi Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 I made my first model. But it has a little problem. Look at the pics. The only help I had, was a german tutorial. An this was a translation of the tutorial by space monkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Um... this is a guess ... but are the verts weighted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boinga1 Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 i'm not a modeller...um did you attach it to the skeleton properly? send a PM to psykosith or toonces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth-Igi Posted April 4, 2003 Author Share Posted April 4, 2003 everything ist weighted. the assimilat-program prints an error if it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyk0Sith Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Wow that is one messed up model...i've had the same result by weighting a custom made skeleton made from 3D max bone objects... I think your problems are due to mirrored and re-scaled objects in 3D max...im not 100% sure but here's something you can do to verify. 1. Select the meshroot and model root helpers and use the scale tool, if you see meshes fly around all over the place then you've got major transform problems. 2.Export the mesh as a .xsi and re-import it back into max, again if you see meshes all over the place, you've got transform problems. See when you move or scale an object in max, it's properties appear to have changed, but in reallity max keeps track of the last state the object was in, dont ask me why but it is very annoying. What you need to do is (hopefully and if that's only an xform problem) add an xform modifier to the meshes, its in the utilities section. Hit reset xform, go back to the mesh and move the xform modifier UNDER the skin modifier, once it's moved collapse the stack TO. You might see face normals being flipped, what you need to do is go back to the object's sub level and select all the faces (use the element selection instead of faces or polygon) once the faces are selected you need to flip them back so they face the right way (there's a "flip" button for that ) I'm not sure that this is the real problem/cure but you should check it out. And if you want a tutorial check my webpage (psyko's realm in my signature, you can find helpful tutorials for JK2 character rigging) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth-Igi Posted April 4, 2003 Author Share Posted April 4, 2003 Thanks. I will try it. And I hope I understood everything:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarafudge Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Eww! I'm sorry, but that really makes me wanna puke... Hes all, apart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psynex Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Psych0, I think that may be the answer to my "someone call a doctor!" Thread too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyk0Sith Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Originally posted by Psynex Psych0, I think that may be the answer to my "someone call a doctor!" Thread too. Hmm looks like i missed it, well i hope my reply to this thread will help Maybe i should add a tutorial about pivot points and transforms in 3D max. Just let me know if you guys still have problems, i dont have all the answers but i'll do my best to share my knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psynex Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Ok, I'm still having problems. I tried moving the pivot points before I read your post and that didn't help, last night I tried Xform on the parts of the mesh I was having trouble with and that didn't work either. One thing you said though gave me a clue; when I imported the XSI file, it imported all screwed up like it shows in Modview. When I went to use Scale on the mesh_root everything scaled equally, but when I went to scale model_root, the bone wasn't even there! What would cause the model_root to dissapear on export? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyk0Sith Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 If you imported back your model from a .xsi then yes the model root gets deleted (i forgot to say you should try the scaling thing before you export to .xsi...) There's another possible solution... Sometimes when you weight a mesh to a bone, the bone's envelopes seem to have been moved out of place (the envelopes are usually right in the center of the bone, but i've seen envelopes moved out of place and also screwed up my mesh) What you need to do if that's the case, you have to re-weight that mesh, i know it sucks but i have no other solution...that's what i had to do. You can be sure that since those errors happened, i always apply reset xform modifiers to every mesh before i weight anything. I also align their pivot points to the "stupidtriangle_off" pivot point. I think that's a very important step that most people forget. If you still cant fix things, i can take a look at the max file and hopefully find or solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psynex Posted April 6, 2003 Share Posted April 6, 2003 Yeah, I'm stuck. I checked everything over many times. I tried to redo the entire hierarchy again and came up with an "unreachable surfaces" error for 2 surfaces that don't even exist in max, but must somehow exist in the XSI. The XSI has parts of my mesh in various areas. The only other thing I did that might affect the export was a complete unlinking. After I made my mesh changes I tried to compile, but the new mesh parts wouldn't work even though they had the same name as the originals that I deleted. So then I tried to relink just the portions I made changes to, but that just created more hierarchy issues. So I selected everything (just thinking about the mesh and forgeting the existing skele might have links) and hit the unlink button. Re-hierarchied the entire model and got the seperation issue. I'm at a loss. I'm pissed too because I had him in, but he deformed way too badly in the shoulders and I HAD to make mesh changes. Maybe a tutorial for making mesh changes after a compile is in order? I can email you a copy of my max file if you want to troubleshoot it too...just give me the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyk0Sith Posted April 6, 2003 Share Posted April 6, 2003 Ok now, im confused...i hope you saved before you attempted any un-linking or mesh modifications??? right???? Anyways, when you want to make mesh changes, you simply go "under" the mesh modifier. Once changes are made (if you added edges with the cut tool...) the new verts will need to be weighted, same thing goes when you collapse/weld vertices, the weight info gets deleted. You can send the "working" mesh to: psykopat@geocities.com I'll take a look but i cant promise good results... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth-Igi Posted April 6, 2003 Author Share Posted April 6, 2003 I imported the *.xsi. The meshes are still there, but the tags (i hope this is the right name) are under the model and mirrored. Should I move them back in place? I did't worked with xform and pivot points before, so I don't know which changes these things make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psynex Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 I did a little cut and paste to give you a hand with Xform. It's really simple. Step One: Select a part of your mesh; l_arm for example Step Two: Add an Xform Modifier from the Modifier List Step Three: Collapse the stack at the Xform Level Like Psych0 said before, make sure you have Xform below Skin in the modifier stack when you collapse it. I hope this makes it a bit more clear for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth-Igi Posted April 7, 2003 Author Share Posted April 7, 2003 Originally posted by Psynex I did a little cut and paste to give you a hand with Xform. It's really simple. Step One: Select a part of your mesh; l_arm for example Step Two: Add an Xform Modifier from the Modifier List Step Three: Collapse the stack at the Xform Level Like Psych0 said before, make sure you have Xform below Skin in the modifier stack when you collapse it. I hope this makes it a bit more clear for you. Thanks! Psyk0Sith explained what do, but I don't know how the modifier works, how the result looks like. And what are pivot points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyk0Sith Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 Before you make any mesh changes, you better backup your file (i have like 166 backup files for my current AOTC model!) When a Xform modifier has been added to a mesh, it will either flip the faces, rescale the object to its original size or simply display the last state of the pivot point (maybe other things??). The modifier has no option, all you have to do is add it to the stack and it will do its job. Once the "damage" is done, hit "collapse to", so you are left with a "corrected" mesh. Remember that EVERYTIME you scale, mirror or modify an object, you absolutely need to use this xform modifier. Pivot points: When you create any object, a default pivot point is created. That pivot point is used by Max to know how to rotate/scale the object. Primitive objects will usually have their pivot points at the center. Let's say i create a sphere in the top viewport and i want to copy/move that sphere in a circular alignment...what i'll do is go to the pivot point section (cant remember what the tab is...) i'll click modify pivot point, select the object's pivot point and move it to coords 0,0,0, next i'll de-click the pivot point selection menu. If i select the sphere and use the rotate tool, the sphere will no longer rotate on itself because i have moved it's pivot point to the 0,0,0 origin. If i hold down shift and use the rotate tool, i will create copies of the sphere in a circle around the origin. The same principle when u use a compass, the part that stays in place is the pivot point, the pencil rotates around and creates the circle just like i described with the sphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psynex Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Add an Xform EVERY time you scale? I'm still not really sure what that modifier does and the helpfile reference definition for it explained nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyk0Sith Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Someone even made a maxscript that will automaticly apply an xform modifier to the mesh...i guess it is pretty important. Well maybe not add it everytime, but when you play around with a mesh, apply the xform before you start weighting, you could have very bad surprises! Just mirror and object an apply the modifier...you'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psynex Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 I wonder why discreet just doesn't code in an "auto-xform". By knowing your going to have issues using certain tools why create a modifier to fix those issues? Shouldn't Max just automatically handle fixing those issues? Seems like discreet was being lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyk0Sith Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 honestly i dunno, might be required for something else, or discreet's too lazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psynex Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 How's it going igi? Still lost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth-Igi Posted April 16, 2003 Author Share Posted April 16, 2003 Jap, I'm still lost. PsycoSith couldn't help me, because has max 4 and i have max 5, so my max-files don't fit with his prog. I still need HELP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psynex Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 I have Max 5 (demo; still working), but haven't done anything JK2 related with it. Psych0, maybe you should add a pivot alignment section to you tutorial(s)? I'd make one, but I'm already making a fresh new Lightsaber tutorial to get rid of the many confusions of the ONLY one out there (that crumby Gmax tut). Igi, you should post your model so someone could download it and take a look at it for you. If you want to get a better idea of a pivot point, select a section of the mesh, go to the hierarchy tab and press "Affect Pivot Point Only" button, and you'll see the pivot point arrows (wireframe blocky arrows; they look different then the regular gizmo). If they're not directly under the model, in between it's feet, then they're not aligned properly. While you still have the Affect Pivot Points Only button selected, use the align tool to align the pivot point of your selected object with the Stupidtriangle_off tag. Make sure you only align it on the ground and not all axis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyk0Sith Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 I have to correct you on this Psynex...the pivot point should match exactly the stupid triangle off, not on the ground. Take a look at raven's mesh and you will see that every mesh has its pivot point perfectly aligned with the stupid triangle. I guess i should add a pivot section to my tut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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