razorace Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 How could there possibly be that many people to ban? It's not like there's a huge amount of cheats going around, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 there aren't any viable cheats that i know of. its called some people are just f*ing *******s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed I think if an admin needs to have a ban list capable of more than say, 30 clients they should think about locking the server and making it a private pass worded server. I mean it’s their server to do with as they wish but if you need a list to ban say 150 people then chances are the only ones who you will ever see are your regulars so just pass it and make it private to save time and headaches. too bad you cant lock the server w/o executing a cfg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Originally posted by Rumor there aren't any viable cheats that i know of. its called some people are just f*ing *******s. Just because someone is annoying doesn't mean you should ban them from a server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marker0077 Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Originally posted by razorace How could there possibly be that many people to ban? It's not like there's a huge amount of cheats going around, right? Not a huge amount, but there are some. The ones I really hate are the modified .qvm ones. Since most servers aren't pure, we can't ditch these cheaters. There is also a reconnect cheat which is used in duel servers (lag out server, then reconnect, the outcome is resetting your health & not having to wait in line to play again). I think there is a kick cheat out there (not a bind) as well, don't know for sure about this one. All in all, it's not too big of a problem, again, I'm not a server admin so I can't really give an experienced answer. Banning in most cases is pointless anyway if it's a dynamic IP (unless they are a n00b), but again, I trust Asty's judgement. Originally posted by razorace Just because someone is annoying doesn't mean you should ban them from a server. Like you said, warn, boot, & ban in most cases. People being annoying is no different if they do not heed a warning. I've seen guys using that Ja Ja Binks model jumping all around to make him keep making that annoying jump sound (which has been changed in Duelers Full BTW) & also using binds like "YAYAYAAAAA". Spamming of text is almost just as annoying as the sounds, so ya, if people are annoying then warn, boot, ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shock ~ unnamed Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Public 1.04 hacks: 2 open gl wall hacks and a cvar crack that unlocks cheat protected cvars in the console. All of them work on pure servers because of the way they load. The wall hacks are kind of useless (Force seeing does the same thing) and the cvar crack really only comes in handy on Omni mod servers unless you are on of those people that know what almost every command in the Quake 3 engine/console does (and most don't). The things like the reconnect bug, the invisible saber bug; those are all built into the game engine and are simply bugs people exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marker0077 Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed Public 1.04 hacks: 2 open gl wall hacks and a cvar crack that unlocks cheat protected cvars in the console. All of them work on pure servers because of the way they load. The wall hacks are kind of useless (Force seeing does the same thing) and the cvar crack really only comes in handy on Omni mod servers unless you are on of those people that know what almost every command in the Quake 3 engine/console does (and most don't). The things like the reconnect bug, the invisible saber bug; those are all built into the game engine and are simply bugs people exploit. I'd like you to go over these exploits with me & Lee some time, actually Lee would be best since he's the coder. We'll see if we can find some fixes for these exploits. You use any instant messenger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shock ~ unnamed Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 AIM = shock unnamed The one open gl wall hack is impossible to stop, it's a multi hack ported over from other games and even a company like Valve software and their built in cheat protection can not stop it. The only plus to this is it is so ridiculously complicated in setting up that 99.9999% of the people who even acquire it can't get it set up because it involves replacing files in your Windows directory. The second wall hack is also a multi hack ported from another game and is easily detected by Punk Buster in that game. Cvar cracks are very tough to stop because of how they work. You connect to a server, load the game, ALT+Enter to Windows and run the crack, it works much in the same way a memory resident app would. Even constant scanning of a directory or drive won't detect it because of how you loaded it. id software (with Quake 3) had problems with these for quite some time and the only solution I ever saw was to release another point release so the executable no longer matches the crack. The problem really lies in the Quake 3 engine. Don’t get me wrong it’s a great engine but it is so easily exploited. There are certain things that Raven either did on purpose or by accident that eliminated some of the built in exploits like r_shownormals 1 which in Quake 3 is literally a built in (crude) wall hack. However some things like r_znear still exist and are easily exploited by the people who came from Quake 3 and know about them. As for the normal in-game exploits the duel reconnect would be very tough to stop unless you developed a way to automatically drop a client the second he goes 999 for say, maybe 1.5 seconds. This bug allows you to do several things, respawn full and pass votes on your own. And a person with a decent script can 999 in less than 2 seconds. To fix the invisible saber bug you would literally have to fix that little saber throw trick that has been in the game since day 1. You know the one where you toss the saber, side step it and it spins around you. The invisible saber revolves around that bug in the way it is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 It's interesting how far people are willing to go to cheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shock ~ unnamed Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Heh yeah you would be surprised. I know a lot of people in the hack making community and it’s funny, because a lot of them are “respected anti-cheaters” or so people think. Usually the guy who cries “hack/script/bot” the loudest is the guy who is using one. Hell take Dr. Sin from Epic (UT2003 people). A member of his team (CHSP) releases the first public bot on “accident” into the Unreal Tournament community. Next thing you know CHSP (client side hack protection) *must be integrated into all UT server to stop/fight the bot “epidemic”. Wow, Epic notices his coding skills on CHSP and offers him a job. Wonder if he would have ever landed that job if the bot never got out… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Woah, that sounds like a huge ethical violation to me. Does Epic know about thaT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shock ~ unnamed Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Lol of course he’s a very talented coder, I doubt they give a damn. Ironically after Sin left CSHP and went off to work for Epic DarkByte (the guy who accidentally leaked the bot) took over CHSP. I’m not even sure if that stuff is still around, I haven’t even had UT installed for almost a year and haven’t kept track of what is going on in the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marker0077 Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed Cvar cracks are very tough to stop because of how they work. You connect to a server, load the game, ALT+Enter to Windows and run the crack, it works much in the same way a memory resident app would. Even constant scanning of a directory or drive won't detect it because of how you loaded it. I didn't think there were any of these for JK2, this is the main problem with Half-Life games. Ya, for this you really need third party software, I'm sure there's a clever way of going about solving this, but I highly doubt Lee is going to produce third-party software to eliminate these users (he didn't even want to write a launcher for Duelers, so I might make one out of installer sofware, just depends if it could really be used, I probably will though), especially considering it's not that high in demand (or is it?). Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed As for the normal in-game exploits the duel reconnect would be very tough to stop unless you developed a way to automatically drop a client the second he goes 999 for say, maybe 1.5 seconds. This bug allows you to do several things, respawn full and pass votes on your own. And a person with a decent script can 999 in less than 2 seconds. This is fixed in Duelers; Actually it's fixed in JediMod (with CVars set up right). It delays how long you change your player model (which is usually how people lag out the server). Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed To fix the invisible saber bug you would literally have to fix that little saber throw trick that has been in the game since day 1. You know the one where you toss the saber, side step it and it spins around you. The invisible saber revolves around that bug in the way it is done. This is not really a bug, just a maneuver. It's called the saber shield & it's not a good maneuever to do. All you have to do is just throw at the person doing the move, they usually stop once they keep getting damage taken from your throws. Originally posted by razorace Woah, that sounds like a huge ethical violation to me. Does Epic know about thaT? I don't think it matters much, the point is the guy can code a bot that's so good it creates an epidemic. If they don't hire the guy on their team, he may write more & destroy their game online, or they can have him on their team to help fight off others like him. It's better to have him on the light side of the force than the dark, sort of speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 I don't know...I don't think it's being on the side of good when you probably cheated your way into the job, qualified or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Originally posted by razorace Just because someone is annoying doesn't mean you should ban them from a server. no raz i said being total *******s. NOT being annoying. i play with Infamous/Iron so i deal with annoying people on a daily basis. i'm tlaking about the fagt fase ppl out there who are just there to give you hell and start cussin you out for no reason and are out to just **** up your time playing the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Vader Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 This Invisible saber "Cheat" Would this be a cheat where it appears as if the character has his saber turned off but it is actually on? And he would be able to attack other players and cause damage without even appearing to swing his saber to the other opponent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shock ~ unnamed Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Yep 30 damage roughly per 1/2 second. You are just walking around with your saber down and when people touch the front or back or your hilt it takes less than 2 seconds to kill them even at 100/25. There are two ways to get in this state and the easiest way is to do the "saber shield" thing I mentioned and then do something else after it's spinning in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Blackrose Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed Yep 30 damage roughly per 1/2 second. You are just walking around with your saber down and when people touch the front or back or your hilt it takes less than 2 seconds to kill them even at 100/25. There are two ways to get in this state and the easiest way is to do the "saber shield" thing I mentioned and then do something else after it's spinning in place. And you think this is not nice, try it with an empower abusing *******. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Vader Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Yeah that's where I experienced it. I went to a clan server, and the clan guys were doing this while running vulcanis. They'd be empowered too. I challenged one guy to a duel when he wasn't empowered, and needless to say I was dead without even seeing him draw his saber. He obviously activated his empower and cheat after the duel started, which means they knew of the harder method to get this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marker0077 Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 I just wanted to let everyone know that I am really starting to get pist at Chosen One (JA Coder). The guy complains about how everyone is bashing his mod & not giving any "constructive critisism" to his mod, & blah blah blah, so I try to do my part (along with quite a few other people in here as well), be a nice guy & see if we can make something useful of this thread for him. There are TONS & TONS of good ideas in this thread JUST ON PAGE 3 - does he post since we've given him this feedback? It would be one thing if he just didn't know about these posts, but that's BS, I have emailed him & IM'ed him about this ON SEVERAL occasions. This really pisses me off because I went out of my way to help the guy out & give him the "constructive critisism" he says he wanted & now he doesn't even respond to me anymore (again, this wasn't a once or twice kind of thing, this has happened quite a few times). How lame is that? [EDIT Taos - Just relax and please don't use such language.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupaflyII Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 (Disclaimer) Just some dork moaning about admin mod) (If you don't care or dont want to waste your time click back. (If your bored or you are actually interested in this, READ ON. Hi, I haven't posted in a while. I posted a while back on some things but whatever. In gaming on jedi knight 2 these days I have seen things become increasingly more difficult to deal with in terms of how servers are run. In patch 1.03 you joined a server and you were immediatly on your guard because you could be killed at any time reguardless of your saber down or not. (I usually follow this but not of late). It was survival of the fittest. If you could not defend yourself you learned to adapt or you left the server, Righto! Now having said that, I bring the topic to today's gameplay. Patch 1.04 MODS everywhere, Academy, Omni, Vulcanus, Ect. Joining a server involves downloading a mod first. Ok simple enough. Upon joining the server you get a list of rules. NO SWEARING! NO ATTACKING PEOPLE WITH SABER DOWNED! (LAMING). IF YOU SEE A LAMER REPORT IT TO AN ADMIN! DONT COMPLAIN! Ok? Saber up Lets go! My first encounter on the server is in bespin on a random rooftop where two (Clannies) are having some secret conversation, alright cool lets get a fight going (Saber up) I slowly approach my pray and SLAP! Oh wait what just happened? Im flying through the air dazed on my way to my death as i fall off the side of a building. What just happened? I look at the upper left corner of my screen and see words of LAMER! DONT ATTACK SABER DOWNED PEOPLE. Ok thats fine i guess. I walk around with my saber down for a few minutes all other people's sabers are down and they are chatting. Now i come to realize.. This is really boring. "What is the point of this server? A chatRoom" What are you guys doing? Slap! No complaining! Riiight. So i stand among the crowd of players looking for some one who may want to fight. I challenge a few people and i get a reply with a head shake or just being ignored. Whelp this is fun. Somone by the name of PADAWAN joins the server i hope he doesnt complain. I watch him run to the crowd and swing his saber at random targets POW up in the air he goes and disconnects before hitting the ground. Well darn, i guess he couldnt adapt, i am having a hard time at it to. what is the point! During my confusion somone runs by me and wacks me with his saber before running on, AH FINALLY SOME ACTION I give chase and grip him from behind his saber automatically goes off and a chatbox appears over his head. Hmm what should i do here? I see the word lamer appear again in the upper left and then the screen freezes and i get a popup of SERVER DISCONNECTED. Well i guess that guy adapted pretty well eh? All he has to do is say LAMER and a random person gets kicked from the server. Today's jedi are weak little ..... well trying to swear here. They hide behind admin commands and random rules that they make up on the spot. I am now banned from over 15 servers for extremely stupid reasons ( Draining is considered laming to some people) and i would like to know what the hell happened to the old jedi knight i used to know and actually enjoy playing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Vader Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I hope you don't act like that when you try and talk to him Marker. Geez. He asked for constructive criticism on April 18. And you're calling him a prick after not posting on the 20th? The guy doesn't have a lot of free time to check forums hourly. He's usually only active on the Academy channel for 20 minutes at a time, if that much. Don't go insulting the guy just because he hasn't had the chance to get back yet. The Forums were down for many of us yesterday as well. Maybe he wanted to post and wasn't able to. After what you said I wouldn't blame him if he doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 marker grow up. you're pissed? fine. we don't want to hear about it. you should really grow up marker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllKyNeSlll Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 in guns servers, truely i only get kicked for what i say. But still, the admins are my friends. so most ctf servers that i goto are mostly fine. Because most of them have passwords anyway like the alt server, MoD, jk2 ctf. However, the sabers servers, ya I get kicked alot. But now, I don't play on pubs ffa, cuz its all junk. Servers I play on, including, shockwave, SD, infinite fragging for sabers ff, are all places where you don't meet up with bad admins too often. Especially since im one of the admins and so is UJ. However, u can meet up with sub par players alot and most of the time they leave. Thereefore, these servers are thought of to have a bad name because of so called lamers. What people do not understand is that the drain war is part of the game. Lightning has a reason to be used, and true the EURO community in general does make lv2 lightning and drain very annoying. But most of the tiem lightning in 1v1 is used as a distraction rather than damage. So therefore, in conclusion, usually because of the attitude of the majority of jk2 players, the better player is more likely to be hated and kicked from the server. USually when im in a server, within 10 minutes everyone leaves unless some other elite is in the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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