Gameplay Suggestions

[BloodRiot]

OK..here's a sugestion... one that i'm sure that what it adds doesnt affect RPGers or CP's point of views since it's not aboutgameplay, but gametypes.

 

FOR MP I WANT A COOPERATIVE GAMETYPE... like... play SP like missions with 2 or more friends along. I've seen very few games using this but I totally enjoyed it... and unfortunatly none of the current games i know have this feature.

 

I'm well aware that it's not by far a favored gametype since most ppl (my brother for instance) totally hates playing vs bots/npcs, but i thini it would be cool. Personally i would luv it.

 

Cheers.

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

The greatest sense of immersion will more often than not come from level design, but just take a look at the JK2 maps....

 

Out of all the JK2 multiplayer maps, the only ones which invoked a sense of "Star Wars" were Death Star, possibly Massassi Temple and most of the duel maps...

 

The rest were too confined or lazy to invoke the feeling, take a look at Warring Factions... its supposed to be Nar Shaddaa. Now take a look at the Nar based CTF maps in JK1, they are huge vertical mazes, now THAT'S how you make a Nar map.

 

Heck, even my maps (Bespin Towers and Kashyyyk Tree Canopy) felt more Star Warsy and I didn't even have any reference material...

 

In all honesty the JK1 DM maps weren't all that great for the Star Wars experience either (with a few exceptions), but they made up for it with incredible gameplay.

 

On a final note... is there a Raven Offices level in EVERY game they make? Because I know there was one in SoF...

[WD_Rage]

I am overcome by laziness, so I am just going to reply to one statement:

 

Posted by Solo4114

I don't want JA to be focused around the competitive community, if the competitive community is happy to use exploits and bugs to win and toss immersion out the window. I want a game that can appeal to the competitive community by being fun, granting them the opportunity to learn skills that will place them above the casual players, and that won't have random exploitable bugs. I'd much rather have a game where the demonstrations of skill come from mastering the game the way it was intended to be played.

 

Immersion is fine for SP, but it sucks for MP. Our gripes are with MP not SP. MP immersion is for RPG games, not FPSs.

[WD_Rage]

MP Sabering Brainstorming:

 

We all agree that the saber is completely out-classed in MP games. I've thought of a few ideas that may (or may not) help. Since I'd pick JK1 over JK2 10 out of 10 times, my primary inspiration is JK1.

 

• Lose all but two saber stances: one quick and one medium (blue and yellow) for both light saber and staff
  
• The quick stance causes some damage, but nothing spectacular.
  
• The yellow stance, while being a tad slower than it currently is, would kill in 2 hits with someone with default health/shields. Perhaps a damage scale comparable to what it is in JK1: one hit takes down 100 shield and 98 health.
  
• For the gimmick wanters, extra moves would be added to compensate for the lack of extra stances.
  

 

The above would really balance the saber with guns. It would also give duelers the chance at a fairly decent duel (nf saber duels in JK1 became marathons on the above damage model).

[Zodiac]

I also didn't like how the red-saber-stance, the heavy one, had this sledge hammer feeling to it. You clicked your mouse, then you kind of wound up your swing and had one long lasting swing.

 

Like: Click- Wind up - Slaaaaaaaaaaashhhhhh... And that'd be like 3 seconds per swing.

 

I want it to be more responsive.

Like: Click - Slash... lasting 1 second with a 1 second pause between swings..

 

or something like: Click - Slash, followed by another Slash or a combo of slashes, lasting 2 seconds with a 2 second pause between swings. (kind of like JK1).

 

Different slashes of course depend on which mouse button you click or which mouse+keyboard combination you use.

 

The fast, but long range and heavy slash, just after you clicked would be much more responsive and fun than the long lasting slash swing you got with JK2. That long lasting slaaaaaaaaaaassssssshhhhh made the saber feel like a big heavy weapon, while it is in fact a light and agile weapon..

[Solo4114]

Originally posted by Necrosis

Solo, your problem is that you need to play RPG games, no fps games. if your just in it for the star wars UNIVERSE, that may not be something jk2/3 will be very strong in. Maybe, its just that you want a lightsaber in your hand and your happy. But honestly I think your alot more worried about the eyecandy other than gameplay, which is what a fps needs

 

yes, I party agree with bloodriot but I think the main reason that this post was made because we (we= us competitve players) are worried that Raven will change things in the game based on suggestions from the "star wars nerds". and Imo all those people want/need is an RPG. Most of their suggestions would be great for an RPG, but could ruin a FPS.

 

 

^^ imo

 

No, I want a Star Wars FPS. This will entail more than just lightsabres and force powers. The design of the weapons, the way the weapons function, the way the force powers function, AS WELL AS the look of the game are all important to that. I'm not willing to trade eye candy for gameplay, but the gameplay itself should still be able to evoke the sense of the source material. There's no reason you HAVE to sacrifice gameplay in order to have an immersive game. RTCW had immersive gameplay a-plenty, even though it had a more fast-paced feel to it than, say, BF1942. And RTCW is still played by competitive gamers because it's a good, well designed, balanced, fun game.

 

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

The greatest sense of immersion will more often than not come from level design, but just take a look at the JK2 maps....

 

Out of all the JK2 multiplayer maps, the only ones which invoked a sense of "Star Wars" were Death Star, possibly Massassi Temple and most of the duel maps...

 

The rest were too confined or lazy to invoke the feeling, take a look at Warring Factions... its supposed to be Nar Shaddaa. Now take a look at the Nar based CTF maps in JK1, they are huge vertical mazes, now THAT'S how you make a Nar map.

 

Heck, even my maps (Bespin Towers and Kashyyyk Tree Canopy) felt more Star Warsy and I didn't even have any reference material...

 

In all honesty the JK1 DM maps weren't all that great for the Star Wars experience either (with a few exceptions), but they made up for it with incredible gameplay.

 

On a final note... is there a Raven Offices level in EVERY game they make? Because I know there was one in SoF...

 

Amen. Level design is KEY to evoking a sense of the universe you're supposed to be playing in. The Nar Shadda CTF level was basically CTF over a great big pit. It didn't feel like a Star Wars map. Even the Massassi temple CTF map didn't really fell that Star Warsy. It lacked the hangar, the control rooms, etc. It was too small and simple.

 

The duel maps had the feel of the universe, but they're just for one game type and that gets old after a while. I'm REALLY hoping JA will include more CTF maps and better designed, more intricate, elaborate maps at that.

 

Originally posted by WD_Rage

Immersion is fine for SP, but it sucks for MP. Our gripes are with MP not SP. MP immersion is for RPG games, not FPSs.

 

Again, I disagree here. I think you can do both. MP can be plenty immersive and still be fun for all, both competitive and casual/"star wars nerd" gamers.

 

Your idea re: the sabres isn't bad, though. I think you can still use the existing sabre system, as long as the moves are all either equal or pretty close in terms of damage. You can have complexity and still reward skill (IE: skill for learning how to navigate a complex system). I posted in the thread on Sabre Blocking a major overhaul of the sabre combat system (and probably went WAAAAY more in-depth than I needed to) that I think would still reward taking the time to learn the moves, but would also prove accessible to casual gamers who don't want to bother learning combos. It's not necessarily the best suggestion, just another possible way to do it. Because the post is so damn long, though (even longer than my posts in this thread -- can ya believe it???), I'm just going to stick a link in here. Anyway, just another potential system for how sabre combat could work.

[twl.Sphinx]

Raven neglected our aspect of the game before. The only reason why we are posting now is because we DO want balance. We do not want it tilted towards saberists and RPGers this time, with no consideration of how what they do for JA effects MP gameplay of the FPS. They need to understand also that some things are broken in JK2 which destroyed the competitive aspect of the game and need to be fixed if possible with this release.

 

....and JA MP is a FPS, not an RPG, and not something to be "immersed" in. Like i said, if people want to be immersed in a world, go buy Star Wars Galaxies. You should get a rocket in the face if you try to "immerse" yourself in JA MP.

-Sphinx

[Solo4114]

Originally posted by Zodiac

I also didn't like how the red-saber-stance, the heavy one, had this sledge hammer feeling to it. You clicked your mouse, then you kind of wound up your swing and had one long lasting swing.

 

Like: Click- Wind up - Slaaaaaaaaaaashhhhhh... And that'd be like 3 seconds per swing.

 

I want it to be more responsive.

Like: Click - Slash... lasting 1 second with a 1 second pause between swings..

 

or something like: Click - Slash, followed by another Slash or a combo of slashes, lasting 2 seconds with a 2 second pause between swings. (kind of like JK1).

 

Different slashes of course depend on which mouse button you click or which mouse+keyboard combination you use.

 

The fast, but long range and heavy slash, just after you clicked would be much more responsive and fun than the long lasting slash swing you got with JK2. That long lasting slaaaaaaaaaaassssssshhhhh made the saber feel like a big heavy weapon, while it is in fact a light and agile weapon..

 

Good point on the red stance thing. I wouldn't mind seeing the speed of red stance be bumped up a bit. I like your idea for the speed being relative to the pause BETWEEN the slashes. This could be a visual indication of the fact that you were following through more on your attack, thereby conveying the power of the attack. Some windup is fine, but it shouldn't take quite as long as it did with JK2's red stance.

[Solo4114]

Originally posted by twl.Sphinx

Raven neglected our aspect of the game before. The only reason why we are posting now is because we DO want balance. We do not want it tilted towards saberists and RPGers this time, with no consideration of how what they do for JA effects MP gameplay of the FPS. They need to understand also that some things are broken in JK2 which destroyed the competitive aspect of the game and need to be fixed if possible with this release.

 

....and JA MP is a FPS, not an RPG, and not something to be "immersed" in. Like i said, if people want to be immersed in a world, go buy Star Wars Galaxies. You should get a rocket in the face if you try to "immerse" yourself in JA MP.

-Sphinx

 

Well, maybe you should get a sabre to the face if you try to turn JA into Quake. Or, you could just go play Quake if that's your cup of tea. See? Doesn't really get us anywhere in the discussion, does it?

 

As for Raven neglecting "your" aspect of the game, the game had flaws for people who wanted to play a Star Wars FPS too. Remember the backstab? Remember trying to kill a guy with blue stance, only to have to beat at him and hit him some 15 times with what is supposedly a lethal laser sword? Those things pissed "us" (the folks you seem to think are fit only for Galaxies) off too. There WERE things that needed fixing in JK2 and they're things that pissed EVERYONE off the same.

 

As for the RPGers, I've got no problem with them playing RPG games however they like, as long as they do it on their OWN server where the rules clearly state that that is the type of gameplay going on. I think it's goofy and stupid to stand around twirling in the air, performing emotes, but hey, if that's what they want, long as they're not bothering anyone else and don't try to impose that style of play on others, more power to 'em.

 

I don't think the game should be tilted towards sabreists, but I hardly think that the game itself was tilted towards RPGers in any fashion. None of the design choices, flaws or otherwise, were intended to EVER further an RPG experience. Now, people did complain to get certain things fixed and changed, and to a degree some of those fixes and changes were good. Had 1.03 NOT had the backstab bug, it likely wouldn't have been half bad, all things considered. The problem it sounds like you are having is not with the game itself so much (since the game didn't encourage or cater to RPGing in ANY fashion), but with the people who played it in a way that it was never intended to be played.

[Aoshi]

Well there are two types of "immersion" into this game. There's the immersion of being in a Star Wars game and then there is the immersion into the game itself. I'm all for being immersed into the game itself but I am definitely not for being immersed in a Star Wars universe. The people that want to believe that they're in a place that's "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away" are indeed the rpgers. Any way you look at this coin you ARE rpging because you are placing yourself in that universe and are subjecting yourself to rules that you would deem fit for that universe (such as "Jedi's" not strafe jumping and using sabers and what not). Naturally you are only stating your opinion because how the hell do you know if Jedis strafe jumped or not? Maybe in their galaxy strafe jumping gave you a speed increase just like it does in the game.... and maybe not. The fact of the matter is you are indeed rpging and if that is the case SW:G and KOTOR will be perfect for you. If you wanna immerse yourself in the Star Wars universe and you dont want your immersion factor ruined by "Jedis" bunny hopping around then I'm quite sure that those games will not have strafe jumping in them so you will be quite happy. This is the entire purpose of RPG games: to immerse you in that environment and make you forget about reality for a little while.

 

FPS games, however, are not there for you to immerse yourself in whatever genre they are set in. Rather, they are made for you to immerse yourself in the game itself. When I get a good game of JK2 going I can forget about everything because I am so focused on the gameplay and reacting to certain situations or whatever. FPS games are made for long term gamers who are not there to fulfill their Jedi fantasies but rather to unwind after a long day and run around killing things. If you play this FPS game to fulfill your dreams about being some superhuman force wielding lightsaber carrying badass then you are sadly in the wrong place. If you play this game to kill people and forget about your day's troubles for a little while but not pretend you're in some alternate reality then JA will be for you and what we (the competitive gamers) are trying to do will also appeal to you.

[shock ~ unnamed]

Originally posted by Solo4114

As for Raven neglecting "your" aspect of the game, the game had flaws for people who wanted to play a Star Wars FPS too. Remember the backstab?

 

I remember it quite well.

I also remember making around a hundred or so posts trying to teach people basic ways to stop it and hence eliminate them dying constantly from it.

 

I also remember no one even caring about actually learning the game, all they wanted were patches, patches, patches.

 

They got 1.04, back stab was gone and guess what?

The largest mass exodus of players from JK2 happened as well.

 

The competitive players were not the ones crying about it, it was the players who are doing exactly what you are doing now.

 

You keep tossing out words and phrases like "exploits" and "requiring skill".

 

Maybe it is you who actually needs to sit down and learn the game before you go around calling everything a "bug" and dismissing everything that you see and fail to grasp as an "exploit".

 

 

The exact attitude you are displaying in your unwillingness to actually devote a serious amount of time into learning the game mechanics, the attitude that everything needs to be "more like the movies" regardless of whether or not it hurts game play is exactly what brought these patches and is exactly what is going to drive a stake right into the heart of JK3.

 

 

No competitive player ever cried for a patch to remove the back stab, weaken the sabers, nerf guns, or weaken Force powers.

 

We had nothing to do with these patches, and in many cases we were the *only voices protesting them.

 

But then again what do we know right?

 

We are just a bunch of lamers who are trying to ruin the Star Wars experience right?

Despite the fact that the patches we protested flat out drove players from the game in droves, we still know nothing and should be ignored right?

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

Gameplay should come first, but there's not really any harm in making it an immersive Star Wars experience for those that want it. Some JK1 maps (Canyon Stream for example) managed to feel Star Warsy AND have good gameplay. The two factors aren't mutually exclusive.

 

Wanting to be immersed in a Star Wars environment isn't the same as wanting to play an RPG. When I want to play an RPG I go and play BG2 or Fallout etc.

 

I think Raven should take the approach of perfecting the gameplay than building the Star Wars experience around that. This should suit everyone, since not many people are gonna argue that gamplay isn't the most important thing.

[Solo4114]

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

Gameplay should come first, but there's not really any harm in making it an immersive Star Wars experience for those that want it. Some JK1 maps (Canyon Stream for example) managed to feel Star Warsy AND have good gameplay. The two factors aren't mutually exclusive.

 

Wanting to be immersed in a Star Wars environment isn't the same as wanting to play an RPG. When I want to play an RPG I go and play BG2 or Fallout etc.

 

I think Raven should take the approach of perfecting the gameplay than building the Star Wars experience around that. This should suit everyone, since not many people are gonna argue that gamplay isn't the most important thing.

 

That's EXACTLY what I've been trying to say. Gameplay comes first, absolutely. You make good gameplay and keep in mind the immersive experience. After all, that's what you're resting your license on: that immersion. Otherwise, you might as well be playing any old FPS. But there is absolutely no reason why you have to sacrifice one to get the other.

 

I sympathize with the people who are pissed about the result of the patches. I didn't like ANY of the patches, really, after I played them for a while. 1.02 was good, but wasn't QUITE right. Had the blocking in 1.03 been a little lower and had the backstab not been in it, it would've been a pretty good patch. Had 1.04 not had such weak sabres, and high blocking, it too would've been a good patch. The problem is not that people complained and got patches as a result, the problem is the decisions that RAVEN made in implementing the changes. No one said "Hey, make the sabres less lethal and pretty much always able to be blocked ad infinitum." People wanted the backstab fixed and it was fixed. The problem was we got more than we asked for. With 1.02, all I wanted was that the game would play basically the same way that it did in SP, so that you'd be able to block sabre attacks, make counter attacks, etc. I never wanted the guns to be useless, and I never wanted blocking to be so high as to allow you to block an attack aimed at your back. But that's what we got. That's NOT, however, what everyone asked for.

 

If Raven makes the right gameplay decisions, allowing sabre combat to be fast and furious, but still thoughtful and rewarding of skill, and allowing gunplay to be equally fast and furious but still BALANCED against a sabre opponent (gunners rule from afar, sabre users rule up close, and midrange is no-man's land), then there's no reason why they can't include immersion as well.

 

Immersion and good gameplay are NOT mutually exclusive, and I don't think anyone here, least of all myself, is asking for gameplay to be sacrificed for immersion alone.

 

Finally, for those who can't grasp it just yet, playing an immersive FPS is not the same as playing an RPG. RPGs are, as Det pointed out, games like Fallout or Baldur's Gate, or Ultima Online or any number of the various continuous worlds in Neverwinter Nights. Those are RPGs. An FPS is indeed an environment where you run around shooting people, hopefully enjoying yourself in the process. Aoshi, by your definition of an "rpger" you yourself are RPGing when playing an FPS. You accept and act by a certain set of rules, namely those created by the server admin and the game's own engine. You wouldn't cheat or hack, because that's breaking the rules. If simple rule following is the same as role playing, then ANY game is role playing. In fact, role playing involves much more than just obeying rules. You act in character, you develop your character over time, you typically increase your character's abilities gradually, and often can interact with your environment in a considerably more detailed manner than you can in an FPS (IE: buying equipment, selling equipment, going on quests, etc.).

 

This is why it's so damn goofy to try and role play in an FPS. All an FPS is is an environment where you grab a weapon and start killing. Maybe that occurs in the context of a contest between two teams (IE: CTF), maybe it's just a crazed melee between you and every other player on the server (FFA). However, immersion in that environment is key to having fun. When someone destroys that immersion, it ruins the game. Take the bug where you could do the blue lunge in mid air and take no damage from falling (or reduced damage -- I can't quite remember). When you're playing in game and witness this, at least if you're a fan like myself, it takes you out of the immersive experience and turns the game into just another flawed FPS in need of better Q&A.

 

An RPGer could claim that, because Luke was able to slow his fall from over 1000 feet by using the force in some book in the EU series, by using the blue lunge to slow their own fall, they're just playing according to the rules of the SW universe. You could even make it so that Force Push has this same effect, and some might claim this makes the game more immersive because it makes the game closer to the source material. I'd say that's a bad addition to the game because it wouldn't enhance the gameplay any. In fact, it might even detract from it. You should take damage if you fall from a great height, even if you're a Jedi. This is a convention of FPS games that enhances their fun, even if Obi-Wan could fall from a height of what looks to be 50 feet onto a metal walkway in Ep. I, and then force jump back into the action.

 

My point is that no one's asking for slavish copying of the movies, especially at the expense of gameplay. Moreover, it's not an either-or decision. You can conceivably have both, assuming Raven actually takes into account the opinions of BOTH camps, and can produce a game that is both immersive AND fun for competition. As was stated, the two are NOT mutually exclusive.

[The Truthful Liar]

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed

etc, etc, etc...

 

But then again what do we know right?

 

We are just a bunch of lamers who are trying to ruin the Star Wars experience right?

Despite the fact that the patches we protested flat out drove players from the game in droves, we still know nothing and should be ignored right?

 

Hah, good post shock. :]

 

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

Gameplay should come first

 

Exactly, and in my opinion maps play a big part in that, including for "Star Wars" immersion.

 

The weapons and force issues are finished and typed up onto the GSD (some of you who have seen it might already know that ). All that is left are some player issues and general system improvements. You'll all soon see. ; )

[Orangina_Rouge]

Originally posted by twl.Sphinx

....and JA MP is a FPS, not an RPG, and not something to be "immersed" in. Like i said, if people want to be immersed in a world, go buy Star Wars Galaxies. You should get a rocket in the face if you try to "immerse" yourself in JA MP.

-Sphinx

 

I agree with all u said my friend ...... JK 2 was one of my favorite game when it was released and then it was utterly broken with the patches.

 

The problem with SWG u see, is that to be jedi u must unlock some special character slot ( else the game is only one char slot per server ) by solving some puzzle with how u act with your main avatar. Now when u get this special character wich is force sensitive and can learn the ways of the force, u get an uber penalty: u are subject to permadeath. If u die more than a couple of times u must restart a new jedi wanabee character.

So all Jedi wanabee RPGers won t turn to SWG to be one ( in fact they all cried at these news ) and they re still here waiting for the ultimate Jedi experience.

Maybe they ll leave after Kotor is released

[The Truthful Liar]

KotOR is scheduled to be released around the same time as JA.

[BloodRiot]

I have to ask... about cooperative mp gameplay... anyone supports this or is it just me?

 

is there anyone who would like to team up with a couple of friends and play the game's storyline as a team instead of alone?

 

Make the enemies a gradually tougher as more players join the party.

 

Any comments on this?

[SuperSon!c]

Originally posted by BloodRiot

I have to ask... about cooperative mp gameplay... anyone supports this or is it just me?

 

is there anyone who would like to team up with a couple of friends and play the game's storyline as a team instead of alone?

 

Make the enemies a gradually tougher as more players join the party.

 

Any comments on this?

 

I think it would be cool i have always wanted to do that.

[Solo4114]

Originally posted by BloodRiot

I have to ask... about cooperative mp gameplay... anyone supports this or is it just me?

 

is there anyone who would like to team up with a couple of friends and play the game's storyline as a team instead of alone?

 

Make the enemies a gradually tougher as more players join the party.

 

Any comments on this?

 

I think it's a cool idea, I just don't know how feasible it is. It would really depend on the actual storyline itself and whether it lent itself to cooperative gaming.

 

What I'd like to see are cooperative team play modes where you really have to depend on your teammates. A class based objective focused mode would rock (steal the plans, blow up the reactor, whatever).

[Matariel]

i totally agree with everything bloodriot said

 

but one thing, i want to make the sabers absolutely deadly, a hit on the body means death instantly. With the ghoul2 models, you can shop off someones head in one shot, yeah that means death, but what if you could chop off an arm or leg? an arm off you could still fight, just make sure the sabre is in your 'still attached' arm. Cut off a leg, and they could wiggle on the ground, still doing force moves or maybey firing his gun, but a pretty easy kill.

Sound fun?

in jk2, SP you could get kyles hand cut off and he would die...luke in SP seems like a bit of a wimp, but kyle takes the cake with that. Luke could've taken it

 

Co-op! yes! I havent played decent co-op since doom2! doom2!!

By the way JA is structured, it looks like you could do it, and it would be so much fun!

(please ppl dont say 'play galaxies' or its too RPG, i dont remember doom2 being RPG because it had co-op)

[pds.rusted]

uh why is strafe jumping even being mentioned in this thread...

 

strafe jumping is a very VERY basic movement skill for even an average level gamer. what does that make people who argue against it? (hint hint solo)

 

it's pretty much a given that all future quake engines will include it, stop whining about how it ruins the 'immersion' of a game and pre-order swg. http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/product.asp?pf_id=220541

[Luc Solar]

I think you competetive players are digging your own grave. (Even though this thread has remained remarkably flame-free)

You are so determined to squash anything resembling a "rpg noob" that it makes you look like zealots.

Stuff like "who cares if it's Star Wars or not and who the hell cares about immersion anyway?" is not likely something Raven will take seriously.

 

If someone comes out and says that they don't think it's Star Warsy to have a stormtrooper wear sweatpants you immediately counter that with "STFU & STFD RPG noob!Screw immersion! If you want stormtroopers to look like they do in the movies go play SWG. This ain't the movies this is a FPS U RPG noob."

 

There is a reason why licences to things like Star Wars, LOTR, NHL and F1 cost a ****load of money. Would NHL2003 be as fun if you were playing John Doe of the Atlanta Vulcanos instead of with and against players from real teams? That's immersion, not RPG.

 

A FPS and immersion can and should co-exist. If not, the game will suck.

 

BTW - I wholeheartedly agree with Det about this:

I even think "ledge-grabbing" would be kind of fun, afterall it gives players another dimension in tricky jumps. I still voted "no" on the poll because I honestly feel it would over-complicate the game in ways that nobody can anticipate and probably end up causing a few exploits.

 

EDIT: In case you're wondering: I'm a "dishonourable [insert any weapon]-wh0ring, saber down killing, force-spamming, kick-laming cheating rpg saber n00b.

[Doctor Shaft]

Here here. Gameplay = fps, Immersion = rpg.

 

Okay, I'll admit that every game has a little bit of both, hence blending the two categories, but you can only have so much immersion in an fps.

 

Take the history of fps in general. Very few of fps have a sound or incredibly interesting plot. In fact, I would go so far as to say that of all fps, Half Life was the only one to achieve a perfect balance between storytelling and fps. Tons of action against a changing enviroment of enemies and maps, and the story being meshed right in. No cutscenes! You just walked up to people and they started talking. You could technically stop the cutscene by just murdering the people who talked to (of course you lost the game too). But that's about it, I don't think you can really outperform Half Life in that respect. Truly amazing game.

 

Anyways, considering that i think Half Life was the only fps with an interesting story, that means that I'd prefer my immersion levels to be at a minimum. Quake's story was so 'stupid' that no one really knows it. IN fact, I don't even know if Quake has a story. I don't care. Same with Unreal. I'm sure it had some story, and i'm sure someone out there liked it, but when I look at it, it's like "whatever, let's play the game".

 

Star Wars is something where if we 'immerse' ourselves, we're doomed to get lost. The story of Star Wars is really a shame. You've got the original trilogy, and just when you thought that it was the center of canon, poof! youv'e got these books coming out claiming that some unintelligent lizard that sits in trees can block the force! At the same time, now we're not just cloning stormtroopers, we can clone the Emperor five thousand times too. And he just transports himself all over the place. Oh yeah, and there is no such thing as the dark side or the light side anymore! That's just a point of view... and if you're Exar Kun, you get to spend the next 200 some years waiting to possess some young jedi. I can't even read the stuff, it's exactly what I thought Star Wars wasn't supposed to be, and yet it's still published.

 

So... getting... to my point... uh... yeah... Dark Forces should only look like star wars, not be star wars. When Dark Forces came out, it looked like star Wars, but it wasn't Star Wars. Never in Star Wars did I see any suggestion that the Rebellion had one-man army's that could completely dispel the Imperial Navy's secret plots. Even Luke Skywalker coudln't do that through force. The only reason he beat the Emperor was because the emperor was obsessed with him, not because he was uber powerful. But Dark Forces looked like Star Wars, so it was fun. Jedi Academy should do the same. Make it look like Star Wars, give us the dark side, the light side, the light saber, and then our star wars-esque weaponry. Now that we look like star wars, let's make a game out of it. That's it. Any cool things that don't become a major part of the game, like hanging from ledges, is something i would frown at. Any small little thing leads to exploits. Look at emotes! I don't care if it was intentional or not, but I can ruin entire ctf servers apparently simply by grabbing the flag and then sitting down. Yeah, I know there's a way to counter it, but come on. So yeah, the game should look like it, but not necessarily play like it. If people want more immersion, that's where the mod comes in... and then you get emotes. hehe.

[Luc Solar]

LOL! So you want to distinquish "immersion sub-divisions"?

 

But I'm fine with it as long as the game has enough immersion-coating.

 

We can never succeed in playing the movies, 'cause people play exactly the way they want. This is what fps-rpg'ers fail to understand.

 

The immersion factor does not logically interfere with gameplay. Sabers that look "as they should" won't not make the game unplayable. Things like ledge grabbing etc. however might, therefore I voted no.

[shock ~ unnamed]

Originally posted by Luc Solar I think you competetive players are digging your own grave. (Even though this thread has remained remarkably flame-free)

You are so determined to squash anything resembling a "rpg noob" that it makes you look like zealots.

Stuff like "who cares if it's Star Wars or not and who the hell cares about immersion anyway?" is not likely something Raven will take seriously.

 

If someone comes out and says that they don't think it's Star Warsy to have a stormtrooper wear sweatpants you immediately counter that with "STFU & STFD RPG noob!Screw immersion! If you want stormtroopers to look like they do in the movies go play SWG. This ain't the movies this is a FPS U RPG noob."

 

 

Maybe, but the hostility is out of 12 months of frustration of dealing with people who know nothing about game play mechanics dictating or in this case trying to dictate what constitute solid game play.

 

I'm not trying to "un Star Wars" the game, all I and most of the others are trying to do is simply voice the opinions of what should be done to enrich the game play mechanics/system.

 

And are opinions are based on the knowledge and experience of 12 months of extensive play testing.

 

If this thread was titled "How do we make the JA game more movie like" I would not sit here and tell the guy who has every single line and detail of the Star Wars movies memorized that he didn't know what he was talking about.

 

That is basically what we are getting when absurd comments like "strafe jumping is an exploit" come from the mouths of people who obviously have very little knowledge of this type of game format.