lassev Posted August 7, 2003 Author Share Posted August 7, 2003 Originally posted by Kengo Because I'm a moron Sorry about that...Still, thanks all the same man, you're too kind Do you want me to begin with the walkthrough, cause you know flattery will REALLY get me moving! Ah, come on, Kengo. I left you the perfect excuse to just, coolly, state: "I didn't have Editing tools installed because I wanted to test my own level on a non-contaminated, clean computer without additional models that most non-mapper players won't anyway have." About the breakables. I didn't really need them to be breakables, but thanks anyway, Wedge, for the suggestion. I'm just a lazy fool, who didn't want to clip ordinary misc_models and thus made them invincible misc_model_breakables that are auto-clipped... Well, I got what I deserved. Now they are misc_models and work great even without Editing tools. I got a superb beta report from Clu. I believe he erred and thought I was also making a graduation work. It was so good, professional and formal beta report that I was amazed there wasn't a final grade attached to the end Kengo, I'll send you email later about the walk-through. You don't need that much help, but perhaps some little note. Thank you all for the invaluable feedback I have got. It's much more than I feel I deserved. This campaign will soon be finished, and it's partly because of your efforts to help me out with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clu Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 I don't want to over-hype this, but I have to say that after playing this campaign all the way through, it is one of the most polished and fun JO levels I have played. It seems like it was developed by Raven, but it actually surpasses the shipped JO game in certain areas (I know, I promised not to hype, but I can't help it). Architecture and layout is pretty jaw-dropping in my eyes, and it is all lit beautifully. Combat and story pacing are well balanced and highlighted by some very clever puzzles. Well done, Lassev, and thanks again for letting me take a run-through. -clu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kengo Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Originally posted by clu I don't want to over-hype this, but I have to say that after playing this campaign all the way through, it is one of the most polished and fun JO levels I have played. It seems like it was developed by Raven, but it actually surpasses the shipped JO game in certain areas (I know, I promised not to hype, but I can't help it). Architecture and layout is pretty jaw-dropping in my eyes, and it is all lit beautifully. Combat and story pacing are well balanced and highlighted by some very clever puzzles. My complete agreement! This level has all you could want - excellent level design, varied and enjoyable gameplay, a good storyline, great cutscenes and a polished feel. This level is something special! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lassev Posted August 12, 2003 Author Share Posted August 12, 2003 I imagine this post will be one of the very last, before this campaign is released. I have made all the corrections Kengo suggested (although I only made one of puzzles only just a little bit easier). I also implemented some things Clu suggested, but his report being so extensive I cannot make all the changes (my ambition doesn't go that high, of which I'm eternally grateful). That being said I can also tell now officially that Project Lighthouse is 100% complete and as finished as it's likely to be, when you (hopefully) download it at PCGameMods. However, as PCGameMods seems to be in some kind of a halted state, there isn't a reason to try to submit it right now. Perhaps Eldritch will one day tell what's going on, or if this is related to his missing computer (the fact that also prevents him from testing Project Lighthouse). Thanks, Kengo and Clu, for over-hyping this level This level surpasses the original Raven levels in the difficulty of puzzles, hardly in anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Glad to hear it's done. Here's the status on PCGM: the lack of files is partly due to my computer, but I did train some people to help me upload files while I couldn't. However, Sergio has asked for no more file postings until PCGM 2.0, the brand new version of the site, is finished. It really looks good and will simplify some tasks for people that come to the site, like submitting files (and even screenshots). Sorry for the delay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kengo Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Great news Lassev Please just give me today to finish the walkthrough, I've just got the first full level done (needs to be worked on to improve it, but I've got everything the player has to do laid down). I'll be finished by the end of the day. El, great to hear about PCGM 2.0, any idea how long till it is finished man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clu Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Originally posted by lassev This level surpasses the original Raven levels in the difficulty of puzzles, hardly in anything else. OK, new rule: no more modesty allowed! Everyone will judge for themselves, but I'll call Lighthouse what it is: an excellent campaign! Congrats on finishing, Lassev. I can't wait to play the final version. Did you post it to Massassi and JK2files as well? -clu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Originally posted by Kengo El, great to hear about PCGM 2.0, any idea how long till it is finished man? Shouldn't be too much longer. Serg is working pretty hard on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotokan Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 WOOHOO! Way to go lassev! Can't wait to play this dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedge2211 Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Originally posted by clu I don't want to over-hype this, but I have to say that after playing this campaign all the way through, it is one of the most polished and fun JO levels I have played. It seems like it was developed by Raven, but it actually surpasses the shipped JO game in certain areas (I know, I promised not to hype, but I can't help it). Hey, at least the hype is coming as the level is announced complete, instead of way at the early stages. Lassev, you're gonna let us know as soon as massassi or jk2files or jkii.net or pcgm post this, right? Right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lassev Posted August 13, 2003 Author Share Posted August 13, 2003 Um. I just received Kengo's walk-through. Eh, even its existence will give a hint that this campaign is not of the run-through swinging you saber -type. However, some things Kengo has hinted about along the way have made me, if somewhat slowly, think that the last puzzle of Project Lighthouse might be harder than it should be. From the point of an average player (and that's the most important player) it might even pose such a bother that he might consider just exiting the game never finishing the level! And that's shocking news, my friends! That's the Worst Case Scenario. Clu, however, solved the puzzle without a word, but he was so duty-bound with the beta report that I cannot be certain if he made it out of necessity, not out of fun. Man, this was unforeseen to me! I can basically make the last puzzle far easier just be remaking some textures. The puzzle will, perhaps, go very lame with that, but even that is better than the alternative. Well. Now I have two alternatives: to leave it and live with it, or make it easier. What do you say, Wedge and Shotokan, if I bundle the newest version and let you play it through to see, if the last puzzle can be solved? I would not need beta reports, just this one bit of important information. You could have the level tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Judge Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Without knowing anything about the level I say keep it as is. You made it for the community, yes but you made it for yourself too. At least that's what I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kengo Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Originally posted by lassev From the point of an average player (and that's the most important player) it might even pose such a bother that he might consider just exiting the game never finishing the level! And that's shocking news, my friends! That's the Worst Case Scenario. Clu, however, solved the puzzle without a word, but he was so duty-bound with the beta report that I cannot be certain if he made it out of necessity, not out of fun. And that my friend is because Clu is a clever guy, and I'm a below-average gamer! I just emailed you, I don't think you should tone it down personally, I think if you just include a small picture of the final code in the walkthrough, then if people are unable to do it, they can get to the end. That to me is better than toning it down for everyone like me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lassev Posted August 13, 2003 Author Share Posted August 13, 2003 Come, on, Kengo! You are hardly below-average player. Below-average would never make his own levels for any game. The problem is not that the puzzle in itself would be so hard. The problem is that solving it will take some serious thinking. It's like some of the IQ tests you have seen. Not a very hard one, although made harder by the fact that of 6 figures 2 is missing. You can still solve it, I know, but it's not as easy as just randomly choosing some figures of the alternatives and voila! And you can't, Kengo, suggest me to keep it, if you didn't like solving it. How could I know, if Clu is the only person in the world who will play my level through because of one puzzle? I might put this level in its current form available for Wedge and Shotokan - promise is a promise, but still I think I will scale down the difficulty somehow. Most likely I will just keep the puzzle but make the figures easier and the right alternative more obvious. Of course I could also use the difficulty settings to make the Padawan puzzle easy and Jedi puzzle the one that is in use now. I must study the issue. It might pay off, if it's easy to implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kengo Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 I have just submitted the second version of the walkthrough Lassev. Personally, my feelings are that making the puzzle hard is good for several reasons. Firstly, it is fitting for the climactic end puzzle to be the hardest. Secondly, making it hard makes it more challenging, more worthwhile. Thirdly, I never think any level should be set for the lowest common denominator. If you have a walkthrough with the answer in if you want it (as I have added) and can't solve the problem, then you are set! I am sorry I didn't include it in the first version, this was a mistake. So I suggest you keep it as it is, but its your level and in the end down to you! *Kengo lights a firework display. It goes into the air and the words "Good luck Lassev!" light up.* "Funny, it was supposed to say 'Buy one review at JK2Review, get two free.' Hmmm.........." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clu Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Originally posted by lassev Clu, however, solved the puzzle without a word, but he was so duty-bound with the beta report that I cannot be certain if he made it out of necessity, not out of fun. I am not a clever guy, (Lassev, you of all people should know that by now ) and I thought the final puzzle was quite fun and rewarding (not a pain). My vote is to leave it in. I had to take a step back from the game to have a think about it, but I thought it was one of the better puzzles since it fit in so well with the surroundings and circumstances of why you were trying to solve it. Regardless of your decision, I'm sure it will be just as fun for any gamer, average or otherwise. Again, awesome work and congrats. -clu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedge2211 Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Hey man, I'd be happy to take a look at it for you...but I really don't think you should sweat it that much. If there's a good brain teaser in there, it'll make for a nice change of pace, and if the plot is a good one, it'll keep players hooked and plugging away till they solve the thing and get the great climactic reward at the end, which is the best kind of puzzle. If you only have to tweak some textures (I'm guessing with text or color-codes or seomthing), is there a way to find a "happy medium?" Supply half the solution in the "easy" way, and half of it in the "hard" way, so that you can get players started, but still make them think? Or, the idea about changing the difficulty of the puzzle with the difficulty setting of the game is a good one, and allows you to cater to the audience more. It's totally up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lassev Posted August 14, 2003 Author Share Posted August 14, 2003 All right. This is what happened: I made the puzzle a little bit easier. Now even other people than Clu should be able to solve it. It's still a puzzle, all right, but not so hard that it would annoy anybody enough to leave the game. I encountered a couple of level flow terminating bugs (no idea what they were, and they didn't reappear, when I tweaked some scripts and played the level again). Yet, that's something that needs to be confirmed before the release of the level. Otherwise everything should now be ready for some serious action, so to speak. And Wedge, Clu might not agree on the "climactic reward", but you'll see... Oh, you will see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotokan Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 Ok lassev. I've played through some of the level and all I can say is... IT ROCKS! Dude I loved the way you recycled Kyle's and Jan's voices. Very well done. Also the architecture, enemy placement, and overall map was done very well. I noticed some inproper grammar in the beginning scroll, but it doesn't really matter. I haven't noticed any bugs so far (I've only been able to play in the beginning cause my computer is having problems) and if there are, it didn't detract from the playing experience. Hehe I almost died in the first room, because I didn't see the third turret. But it was good the droid didn't fire much... Good work lassev! P.S. The new Kyle skin is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lassev Posted August 15, 2003 Author Share Posted August 15, 2003 Originally posted by Shotokan Ok lassev. I've played through some of the level and all I can say is... IT ROCKS! Dude I loved the way you recycled Kyle's and Jan's voices. Very well done. It's a good thing Kyle was never such an intelligent fellow. You'll see later the painful limits of the recycling of old sound files. I noticed some inproper grammar in the beginning scroll, but it doesn't really matter. Ah, well, I'm somewhat aware of them, but it was a huge bother to make the .tga in the first place without such programs as Adobe Illustrator. I guess I must go through that work again and see what can be done to save myself from humiliation. Hmm, perhaps PSP 8 has some new options. I must check it out. P.S. The new Kyle skin is cool I can only offer my sincerest thanks to Infinity_Blade for allowing me to use the skin. I doubt I could have released this level with the bantha herder look. Go and play the level through. I'm eager to hear, if you encountered any big bugs. I saw one just last evening, although it didn't reappear and I've no idea of the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedge2211 Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 I got up to midway through Lighthouse_2 last night. Very good job overall, lassev. My comments thus far: <snip> I'll be away this weekend, but I'll probably have more comments for you early next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lassev Posted August 15, 2003 Author Share Posted August 15, 2003 Thanks for the comments, Wedge. I appreciate your feedback very much. . On the "top" floor of Lighthouse_1, there is a control room lit in green and a control room with a forcefield blocking two officers. The beams in the corridor outside both these rooms continue right in front of the doors, and when you look out to the corridor from inside one of those control rooms, you can see the caulked inside of those beams! This is one of those errors that you can see about a hudred times and still you never remember to correct it. Perhaps I now will. Hopefully. Otherwise, as this was an unpublished work, I would ask you not to post here comments about puzzles, or routes to take when playing, or that kind of stuff. It may eat away the fun of somebody, who hasn't yet played this campaign. You gotta remember this is a single player level, and it has no other value than surprises. But thanks anyway. I will most likely do something to those things you pointed out. Any further comments you can send me as private messages or by email (my email address is in the readme). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedge2211 Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 Oh, okay, whoops. I'll just edit that stuff out before anybody sees it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lassev Posted August 16, 2003 Author Share Posted August 16, 2003 The nasty old error G_FindConfigstringIndex made a surprising come-back just last evening. I assume it to be a direct result of the changes (additions) I made when following suggestions from Clu and, more recently, Wedge. Just a few new textures and the last straw to break the camel's back was there. As I don't want to remove those textures, I'm either forced to remove some other (the most likely way to proceed) or perhaps remove the Easter Egg - a deed that would certainly solve this problem once and for all. However, the latter is hardly my prefered solution given how much time I spent on the Easter Egg in the first place. Yeah, I expect to release this level next week, and there's nothing in sight that might prevent it from happening. I'm all too happy to get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kengo Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Beta report sent. Sounds like you've reached that stage where you just want it to be finished so you can finally let go! I certainly reached that stage with Occupation 2, I imagine most people who spend a long time on a project of any kind do, and man yours must be one of the most worked upon projects for JO. I shows, this level basically rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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