Prime Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 Has there been any information released about the bots in JA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted April 26, 2003 Author Share Posted April 26, 2003 Originally posted by Prime Has there been any information released about the bots in JA? Nothing, AFAIK. MP in general hasn't really been discussed very much in either articles or interviews, and I can't remember seeing anything that particularly related to bots. I have to assume that bots are still planned for the MP modes for offline battles...but I don't think it's really been confirmed. Hopefully we'll get a lot more answers to these types of questions once E3 is in full swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 From what I remember, SP was the focus of most of the previews and media hype before JO as well. I don't remember all that much talk about MP at that time either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SettingShadow Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 What I hate with bots: They duel for a while and then they start running backwards using (if Dark) lightning and drain while running. They always fall. They're über aim is getting on my nerves. I was at the other side of the map (ns_streets) and a bot (Prisoner I think) killed me with the Blaster Rifle's ordinary fire. I was moving at the time this tend to happen alot. Light side bots use mindtrick ALL the time, and Dark side bots use lighting, drain and grip... They just run around, gives me a goodbye swing with their lightsaber (wich I block ) and continues running.. annoying. I think the bots should be alot more like the SP NPC's (but please, not like Desann ), they actually stayed and fought. Can't think of anything more right now.. but I'm sure there is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 It's almost impossible to have a good botfight, they just run away so you can't reach them with your lightsaber... And they fall, yes... And they get stuck They are soooooo useless!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 The thing that irratates me the most is their accuracy and "intelligence" when it comes to guns. I mean, honestly, they are deadly accurate its not funny. Unless you strafe and dodge, they'll hit you everytime. The other thing that bugs me is their "intelligence". I mean, your up in the sniper boothe on the deathstarm waiting for a target. A bot runs into the hangar turns directly to you, and opens fire! Its terrible how they have a sixth sense and know exactly where you are. In JA, they should be alerted to your presence when you fire apon them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SettingShadow Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Well they suck with sabers (doh, cause thats what I like playing with) but with a blaster rifle in their hands you better watch out. They are so bad with sabers it's silly.. but on the other hand they're so good with blasters thats it's silly... bah! The thing that irratates me the most is their accuracy and "intelligence" when it comes to guns. I mean, honestly, they are deadly accurate its not funny. Unless you strafe and dodge, they'll hit you everytime. The other thing that bugs me is their "intelligence". I mean, your up in the sniper boothe on the deathstarm waiting for a target. A bot runs into the hangar turns directly to you, and opens fire! Its terrible how they have a sixth sense and know exactly where you are. In JA, they should be alerted to your presence when you fire apon them. I couldnt agree more.. I was playing on ns_streets, I was on a high place ready to snipe when this bot comes in my sight, he emediately turn up and fire.. all hits... me = dead... I mean c'mon, its like they have a helmet on with a perfect targetting system... silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted April 27, 2003 Author Share Posted April 27, 2003 Originally posted by Izzy The thing that irratates me the most is their accuracy and "intelligence" when it comes to guns. I mean, honestly, they are deadly accurate its not funny. Unless you strafe and dodge, they'll hit you everytime. The other thing that bugs me is their "intelligence". I mean, your up in the sniper boothe on the deathstarm waiting for a target. A bot runs into the hangar turns directly to you, and opens fire! Its terrible how they have a sixth sense and know exactly where you are. In JA, they should be alerted to your presence when you fire apon them. I have to agree with that sentiment. They're behaviour isn't random enough, and they are far too accurate with guns, especially when you are moving. You don't see many human players with that consistent level of accuracy. And as for awareness...they seem to know where you are even when they can't see you. I've had them try to shoot me through walls a couple of times, although maybe that's just a glitch. They certainly need to work on making the bot behaviour a bit more realistic, so if you're hiding out of view they don't just turn towards you, and they're accuracy needs to be toned down, while their movement/dodging and melee combat needs to be beefed up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Let me get this straight... people are complaining about bots because they force them to DODGE in order to avoid getting shot!? Heck, even my accuracy is better than the bot's I can hit a moving target at the top opposite end of Nar Streets from the bottom with the bryar, and my accuracy is poor in comparison to most people i've played. Honestly if you aren't going to bother evading shots, how can you possibly justify complaining that bots are too accurate? The bot "6th sense" is just their version of force seeing, it sounds to me like the complaints are about the bots being TOO human... Human players uses all sorts of methods of locating targets: - actually seeing someone - force seeing and pre-emptive shots - listening with things called ears - looking for tell-tale saber glow on the level architecture. The bots are rubbish because they have terrible accuracy, i've never known them to lead a target. Its the same in most games unfortunately, if you keep moving in all possible directions a bot doesn't stand a chance regardless of their programmed accuracy. I was playing on ns_streets, I was on a high place ready to snipe when this bot comes in my sight, he emediately turn up and fire.. all hits... me = dead... I mean c'mon, its like they have a helmet on with a perfect targetting system... silly. I've seen this happen dozens of times from both perspectives with human players. Its actually one of my tricks to pretend that I haven't seen a sniper until i'm in a position to suddenly turn around and shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taekwondo joe Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 i got something for u, if you get hit, like you say, why dont you draw your saber!!!!!!!!!!!! yes i do find it hard sniping, but i find it ahrd vs. humans as well, all you see is your target, you dont know if some one is right there waiting to pounce and kill you. maybe its just me, but bots useualy dont run, i kill them to fast, try that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SettingShadow Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 I've seen this happen dozens of times from both perspectives with human players. Its actually one of my tricks to pretend that I haven't seen a sniper until i'm in a position to suddenly turn around and shoot. Well, its not that he killed me that I'm annoyed over, its that he pops up and its impossible that he could have seen me (he was looking sraight forward) then he turns my way and fires a couple of blasts, all hit. The thing is, he just looked up and shot, a human player would at least have to put the crosshair on the target, but nooooo, the bots have their crosshair on the target the mili second they look up. They never look up when theres no one around, but when theres someone there, they "feel" it (besides, if the bot would have used seing, he still has to look up to see me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 I've found bots to be weak all the way around, whether they use guns or lightsaber. When I first got the game, dueling bots took some practice, but like most people I was able to beat them consistently in a short amount of time. I only use bots for no Force duels, but even that is pretty rare. Having bots that are a challenge and have convincing AI (even like singleplayer), then that would do wonders for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademaster_109 Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 can't we all just agree the bots sucked in JO, and they need to get better!(i'm not trying to flame on u prime) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SettingShadow Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I think they certainly need to be better in saber combat, but they should also be a bit more like a human player with guns. That hey have good accuracy dont bother me, but they're "6'th sense" when someone is around is just silly. I was really high up, no way he could have seen me, he comes into my sight (he had his side against me), turns up, fires a couple of blasts... dead. It's like they know exactly where I stood before they turned up to look.. and they never turn up when theres no one there.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Yeah, bots pretty much suck. It's not that they are running backwards, it's that they've already decided to move to the next waypoint before turning to it. They ought to have their turning time tuned. They might want to stop at a key waypoint and look around a corner or something. As someone who has mapped and coded, it makes sense to me that the problem with bots can be fixed - they can be tough, but for some reason aren't. For example, where you are on a map is held on the server - so is the bot. The bot should have such an advantage - but they don't. I agree with the Bot-Type'ing' - they need to have a plan when they start playing, just like a person. The need to have a skill - something they know they like to do - they should be able to tell where the weapons are, for Jimmy's sake - I know that *I* do. If they are a sniper, they better grab the closest weapon and make way to the sniper rifle (er... disruptor) - they also need to learn to use secondary fire modes on weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Originally posted by Blademaster_109 can't we all just agree the bots sucked in JO, and they need to get better!(i'm not trying to flame on u prime) I agree! And I didn't take it as a flame Right now, the best way to have a duel against AI is to load a map into SP and spawn a couple of Reborn. You can even spawn a few Jedi to give you a little help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted May 12, 2003 Author Share Posted May 12, 2003 Originally posted by Prime Right now, the best way to have a duel against AI is to load a map into SP and spawn a couple of Reborn. You can even spawn a few Jedi to give you a little help... Yeah...but we shouldn't have to do that, and I hope we don't have to do that in JA. Anyway...another thing has occurred to me while I was starting up yet another bot match recently. While I like the ability to be able to select which bots I can fight against...I think we should also be able to enable a random system for bot selection, so that each time a new level loads, the bots you get to fight are randomised. I think this could go some way to making bot matches more interesting, because you won't know who you'll be fighting next. That's not to say they should do away with being able to choose specific bots...just adding another option to randomise them Of course, the other thing I'd love to be able to do with bots is go in and change their Force powers, combat styles, favourite weapons, behaviours, etc., in a similar way to Unreal Tournament. That would rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Originally posted by StormHammer Yeah...but we shouldn't have to do that, and I hope we don't have to do that in JA. Agreed. It would be nice to be able to do it through a more user friendly interface. Originally posted by StormHammer Anyway...another thing has occurred to me while I was starting up yet another bot match recently. While I like the ability to be able to select which bots I can fight against...I think we should also be able to enable a random system for bot selection, so that each time a new level loads, the bots you get to fight are randomised. I think this could go some way to making bot matches more interesting, because you won't know who you'll be fighting next. That's not to say they should do away with being able to choose specific bots...just adding another option to randomise them It might be kind of neat if the game would be more likely to pick certain bots depending on the map. For example, you might be more likely to encounter stormtroopers on a Bespin map, or rodians on a Nar Shaddaa map. Originally posted by StormHammer Of course, the other thing I'd love to be able to do with bots is go in and change their Force powers, combat styles, favourite weapons, behaviours, etc., in a similar way to Unreal Tournament. That would rock. Definitely. Perhaps you could even save settings, so you could just load up a rodian sniper, or gran hand-to-hand fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Break_dF Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 The fact that bots sucked should be an indicator of the amount of gameplay the designers actually put in; however, bots in this type of game can only go so far. I mean, it's not like ut ig where godlike bots are actually godlike. There are just too many variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 I agree, bots are an important part of the game, both for filling out smaller games, and for people with laggy (or even no internet) connections. They are also invaluable for training, messing around, and doing stuff that would bore or annoy human players. ; ) Two thing that were SORELY MISSING from JK2 with the bots were: Bots cannot accept Saber Challenges. (thus the only way to duel a bot is in Duel Mode) It would also be cool to see bots duel one another. ; ) A big deal if you can't play online, or if nobody will duel you. This option could be turned on or off. Bots cannot be given "Orders" in team/CTF games like they could in UT and Quake3, etc. Thus anybody who's team is half bots or has more bots than human players is doomed against a competent human team. The bots do whatever they want, following predictable patterns. Ordering them to "defend" while you attack or "cover me" rather than ignoring you as if its a deathmatch would be really nice. The options where there in the engine, the Raven team just didn't test them for JK2. So far nobody has gotten them to work, so I'm assuming they're just broken in JK2. I'd love to see that fixed in a patch btw. But JA needs to have this, desperately. Other than that, adding more "levels of difficulty" and bot personalities (a very cool idea in JK2) would make it very cool. How about some characters that are more "human-like" (ie: they use sabers AND force AND guns based on what the situation calls for?)... it was too much of a "sabers+force" and "guns+explosives" dichotomy between the bot characters. And at Jedi Master level, many of the bots were still very easy to overcome. How about some "Godlike" bots? ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 The only map that the bots seemed to be any good at was the Bespin map (the one everybody played to death in FFA). Of course once you learned the game and got good, they were a cinch to slaughter wholesale there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan They are also invaluable for...and doing stuff that would bore or annoy human players. ; ) Apparently most people don't use bots, since there is plenty of people that are doing things online that bore and annoy human players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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