The difference between facts and opinions

[Cosmos Jack]

It seems on this forum there are a lot of people that have a certain point of view and they see that point of view as being more correct than mine.

 

What they all forget is for every idea or "fact" there is a information to support 1 way or the other way. So 1st you have a idea than you get "facts" to support or whatever you can pretty much choose what side you want to take on though's "Facts".

If I want to talk about men landing on the moon there are lots of sites and books that support that "fact" and than there are lots of sites that support the opposite that it never happened and it was a cover up. They have facts too you know. Did the Nazis really kill any Jews in WWII. I'm sure I can fined "facts" that would say other wise. Not that I beleave they didn't.

 

So there is a definite difference in interpretation here. It's not that I'm stupid, uneducated, or not informed. It's that I don't support the majorities interpretation of the facts. The popular them in this forum is the USA is bad and evil and out to control the world... I'm sorry, but that's not my interpretation of the facts and I'm not going to agree with any of you on anything supporting that. It's not that anything I say is wrong or anything you say is wrong its that whether you want to admit it or not my ideas are as true as yours from your point of view. A lot of the facts people talk about having and using are opinions that's why I don't care about them.

 

What makes your Opinions better than my wild guesses? I wouldn't say a lot of things unless I knew them to be true. I was shocked by all the Opinions that came flying at me as facts when I 1st posted here. I don't take lightly being called a lair. That's one part of my explanation for my wonderful attitude.

[C'jais]

Interpretation of fact? Maybe, but I'll call it interpretation of data.

 

Opinions are one thing. Whether the war against Iraq is good or bad is purely an opinion from where I sit. There's no fact involved, as it's not a simple matter of doing the bodycount math between Saddam's regime and USA's new regime.

 

History is a very fluid subject, I agree. Much, if not all, of it is built on interpretation of texts and the like. People are lying and deceiving each other to bend the past to suit their present.

 

However, if you post something as "USA did most of the fighting and really won WW2 by itself", then most people stall. Here you can do the bodycount math, if you're so inclined, you can look at how long USA fought, and how long the other countries fought. You can look at when USA entered the war, and for which motives. All in all, the accepted fact, which means the fact, is that USA did not win WW2 by itself, and nor did it fight it singlehandedly. That's just bullsh*t to most people.

 

On a piece of history as recent as this, there's not much dispute, really. But if you moved back a thousand years and postulated that the vikings or chinese discovered America before Columbus, then I'd, and most others, be would be more open for listening.

 

And while some may think so, I do not think America is either evil, bad or out to control the world. Malice is often stupidity upon closer inspection, however.

[ET Warrior]

Quick question, was the title of this thread supposed to be "Difference of Opinion"? I'm guessing it was by the topic of your post, because this thread would be much different if we were talking about "Deference of Opinion"......Actually, I'm not really sure what would be talked about in a Deference of Opinion thread.......

 

 

I am open to the fact that other people's views are different to mine, and that the fact that i'm arguing with them does not mean that they will suddenly see things my way and change their minds. I just like the debating and seeing multiple sides of different views.....

 

I think the reason you take a lot of flak is because you're usually rather blunt and somewhat rude in your posts. And some people are easily offended.

[Cosmos Jack]

Originally posted by C'jais

However, if you post something as "USA did most of the fighting and really won WW2 by itself", then most people stall. Here you can do the bodycount math, if you're so inclined, you can look at how long USA fought, and how long the other countries fought. You can look at when USA entered the war, and for which motives. All in all, the accepted fact, which means the fact, is that USA did not win WW2 by itself, and nor did it fight it singlehandedly. That's just bullsh*t to most people.

Here is your body count you are so fond of. Russians did loose allot 56% died defending there country from the Nazis, but for one I never said allot of Soviets didn't die. They also didn't die freeing Europe, but Conquering along the way to Berlin. As I said in the other post and will say here. How long did it take for the Berlin Wall to fall? The next down is the Germans. Than Chinese they lost allot to the Japanese who is the next one down and than we have the USA. 400,000 died on forgin soil to free Europe not conquering along the way like your beloved Soviets.

 

I don't see the Soviets giving much allot of them were killed by there own military. As a result of no motivation and no will to fight other than if they didn't they would be killed. The Soviet Union was not a hero of any kind just another country that was under attack from a common enemy. If the USA had not entered the war and say the Russians were able to take the Nazis on there own. Which I doubt. Than all the countries the Nazis took over would have been taken over by the Soviets and instead of being Fascist Nazis you would be Communist pigs. All in all I see allot of bad or no training and little or no willingness to fight for one oppressive dictatorship over another resulting in so many Soviet deaths. Between Stalin and Hitler it is truly a toss up "what moron do I want to die for today"

 

Here are sites where you can a see a few of the Soviet liberated countries of WWII. As you can see each government was replaced with a Communist government.. Sounds like liberation to me....

1 http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/post-ww2.htm

2 http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/atlas_east_europe/albania-timeline.jpg

3 http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/atlas_east_europe/bulgaria-timeline.jpg

4 http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/atlas_east_europe/czech-timeline.jpg

5 http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/atlas_east_europe/hungray-timeline.jpg

6 http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/atlas_east_europe/poland-timeline.jpg

7 http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/atlas_east_europe/romania-timeline.jpg

8 http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/atlas_east_europe/yugoslavia-timeline.jpg

 

 

Hmm where I got the deaths... Here you can also see how many of the Soviets own solders were killed by the Soviets not the enemy and the number of ethnic cleansing done buy the SOVIETS not the Nazis.... Wonderful liberating guy this Joseph Stalin..

 

So please no more talk about how wonderful the Soviets were. I'm saying Soviets not Russians, because that is the same as the difference between Nazis and Germans.

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm

 

USSR: 10.0M

Germany: 3.5M

China: 2.05M

Japan: 1.5M

USA: 0.4M

Romania: 0.3M

Yugoslavia: 0.3M

UK: 0.28M

Italy: 0.23M

France: 0.21M

Hungary: 0.14M

Poland: 0.125M

TOTAL: 19.0M

[Cosmos Jack]

Since that was kind of off topic a bit. Well not really though it had allot of FACTS in it and not OPINIONS. The hole Soviets the good guys bit really gets on my nerves..

 

Another thing I thought off at work tonight.. It seems that I'm the only guy on here that shares my views. There are a few here and there that every once in awhile pop up, but for the most part it’s me against the majority. It's popular here to be a left wing, US bashing, government hating, liberal. Anyone who seems to say anything remotely positive about the US or disagree with a person criticizing the US and dam they get slammed fast...

 

I lost count how many times I have got slammed not for saying anything negative to another person, but because I said something positive about the US. I think it's kind of sad that 1 majority seems to have excluded a hole other group of people just because they feel the opposite about what most people on here think.

 

It's constantly the same old redirect on here I'm the only one that disagrees it seems. I'm not here to be popular or even to make friends. I post here, because of all the ignorant US bashing I see. I said to myself "this isn't right"...

:swear:I'm not well liked and sure not to popular on here, but I'll be dammed if I stop posting here just, because of that.

[Cosmos Jack]

Originally posted by C'jais

But if you moved back a thousand years and postulated that the vikings or chinese discovered America before Columbus, then I'd, and most others, be would be more open for listening.

The Chinese is still up in the air and the Vikings were in the Americas before Columbus. Amerigo Vasputchi found the mainland Americas not Columbus. All he found were Islands, besides how can you really discover something that was already found?

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Cosmos Jack

Here is your body count you are so fond of. Russians did loose allot 56% died defending there country from the Nazis, but for one I never said allot of Soviets didn't die. They also didn't die freeing Europe, but Conquering along the way to Berlin. As I said in the other post and will say here. How long did it take for the Berlin Wall to fall?

 

Aight Jack, I'm well aware that the Soviet Empire was far more cruel than Nazi Germany ever hoped to be, but stop saying how I "love them sovjets". I don't.

 

But I do know that we can be thankful in a twisted sense for how many men of theirs they threw on the meat grinder, in an effort to stop Hitler. If Hitler's eastern front hadn't been completely grinded to a halt and crushed by the Soviets, you would be speaking either German or Japanese today. Hitler was after the Russian oil fields, and if he had managed to grab them, it might have looked very different.

 

Again, I'm not saying I love the soviets. I'm only responding to the outrageous statement that your country did most of the fighting in WW2 and won the war alone. Because you didn't. Saying that as the Soviet troops were just as propaganda fed and oppressed as the German troops it somehow disqualifies them from the title of "Hardest fighting country in WW2". They f*ckin' ended WW2 by destroying Hitler. After the eastern front had collapsed, it was all downhill for Germany.

 

And I saw you noticed yourself that the Soviet Empire conquered a lot of eastern Europe. That doesn't count as fighting as well? And look at those body count statistics of yours - pretty easy to see who had the ****tiest job of 'em all. Just because the Soviets were evil creeps doesn't make it so that they all of a sudden doesn't count. Germany was evil too, I guess they didn't fight either?

 

I don't see the Soviets giving much allot of them were killed by there own military. As a result of no motivation and no will to fight other than if they didn't they would be killed.

 

So f*cking what? It doesn't matter if they didn't believed that they were heroic saviours - they still crushed Hitler's dreams, in the end. They still fought with bitter determination. They still died in droves. Your country didn't enter the war because of sheer goodwill. You retaliated and aided an economic ally against a common enemy - is this so different from Russia?

 

All in all I see allot of bad or no training and little or no willingness to fight for one oppressive dictatorship over another resulting in so many Soviet deaths. Between Stalin and Hitler it is truly a toss up "what moron do I want to die for today"

 

So? Morals doesn't matter at all when speaking of history. The fact remains that the soviet troops fought harder than yours, and played a huge part in winning WW2.

 

Here are sites where you can a see a few of the Soviet liberated countries of WWII. As you can see each government was replaced with a Communist government.. Sounds like liberation to me....

 

Like what you're doing to Iraq right now? Sure sounds like liberation to me... Face it, if the Iraqi people wanted to elect a communist or a theocratic party, you wouldn't let them, simply because such governments are bad markets for capitalism. Very bad, in fact, and you've been mightily pissed at the Iranians for overthrowing the US puppet-dictator in exchange for a democratically elected theocracy. Sure sounds like great ideals to me.

 

And yes, for the umteenth time, I'm fully aware that the Soviet Empire was a horrid, brutal regime. Quit it already.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Cosmos Jack

Anyone who seems to say anything remotely positive about the US or disagree with a person criticizing the US and dam they get slammed fast...

 

Perhaps because it's very weird supporting the "Land of the Free, home of the Brave"-crap after reading a bit of history on what you guys have done:

 

1) Which is the only country in the world to have dropped bombs on over twenty different countries since 1945?

 

2) Which is the only country to have used nuclear weapons?

 

3) Which country was responsible for a car bomb which killed 80

civilians in Beirut in 1985, in a botched assassination attempt, thereby making it the most lethal terrorist bombing in modern Middle East history?

 

4) Which country's illegal bombing of Libya in 1986 was described by the UN Legal Committee as a "classic case" of terrorism?

 

5) Which country rejected the order of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) to terminate its "unlawful use of force" against Nicaragua in 1986, and then vetoed a UN Security Council resolution calling on all states to observe international law?

 

6) Which country was accused by a UN-sponsored truth ommission of providing "direct and indirect support" for "acts of genocide" against the Mayan Indians in Guatemala during the 1980s?

 

7) Which country unilaterally withdrew from the Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty in December 2001?

 

8) Which country renounced the efforts to negotiate a verification process for the Biological Weapons Convention and brought an

international conference on the matter to a halt in July 2001?

 

9) Which country prevented the United Nations from curbing the gun trade at a small arms conference in July 2001?

 

10) Aside from Somalia, which is the only other country in the world to have refused to ratify the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child?

 

11) Which is the only Western country which allows the death penalty to be applied to children?

 

12) Which is the only G7 country to have refused to sign the 1997 Mine Ban Treaty, forbidding the use of landmines?

 

13) Which is the only G7 country to have voted against the creation of the International Criminal Court (ICC) in 1998?

 

14) Which was the only other country to join with Israel in opposing a 1987 General Assembly resolution condemning international terrorism?

 

15) Which country refuses to fully pay its debts to the United Nations yet reserves its right to veto United Nations resolutions?

 

I think you can recognize at least a few here.

 

I've got nothing against USA, or the ideals for which it stands. Those are beatiful. But I cannot for the life of me get why so many are so proud to be American instead of a foreigner. It's as if America has the patent right for doing good things, and can never do bad. I hate that attitude, but I still like the people.

 

:swear:I'm not well liked and sure not to popular on here, but I'll be dammed if I stop posting here just, because of that.

 

That's the spirit, man. Don't let us get you down.

[Cosmos Jack]

Originally posted by C'jais

But I do know that we can be thankful in a twisted sense for how many men of theirs they threw on the meat grinder, in an effort to stop Hitler. If Hitler's eastern front hadn't been completely grinded to a halt and crushed by the Soviets, you would be speaking either German or Japanese today. Hitler was after the Russian oil fields, and if he had managed to grab them, it might have looked very different.

LOL you forget our love of dropping BIG BIG BOMBS. If Germany had not of fallen we would have used the A-Bomb on them like Japan. Except the 2 we used was the only 2 we had at the time. Roosevelt had pondered on whether to have ever used them on Germany.

The resin we used it on Japan was because there was no way to win a ground assault on main land Japan. Millions of Americans would have died. The US body count would have made the Soviets a little spec. Your right we have to think all the dead Russians that fought at gun point for the Soviets. They weren’t fighting for the right resins and they weren’t fighting because they wanted to. They wasn’t fighting to free Europe from an Oppressive fascist Nazi rule, but to install there own Oppressive Communist rule.

Originally posted by C'jais

And I saw you noticed yourself that the Soviet Empire conquered a lot of Eastern Europe. That doesn't count as fighting as well? And look at those body count statistics of yours - pretty easy to see who had the ****tiest job of 'em all. Just because the Soviets were evil creeps doesn't make it so that they all of a sudden doesn't count. Germany was evil too, I guess they didn't fight either? [/b]

Yep the Germans fought they at least fought because they wanted to. It all makes a good point here you just don’t seem to care.

Originally posted by C'jais So f*cking what? It doesn't matter if they didn't believed that they were heroic saviours - they still crushed Hitler's dreams, in the end. They still fought with bitter determination. They still died in droves. Your country didn't enter the war because of sheer goodwill. You retaliated and aided an economic ally against a common enemy - is this so different from Russia? [/b]

If all we did was aid you would be speaking German or Russian right now.

Originally posted by C'jais

So? Morals doesn't matter at all when speaking of history. The fact remains that the soviet troops fought harder than yours, and played a huge part in winning WW2. [/b]

OK let me rephrase this for you. The USA fought to free Europe and the Soviets fought to conquer Europe… Does this make since now? Yes they did play a huge role in gaining more territory than the Nazis..

 

I like how you still say the Soviets fought harder no they fought dumber and had no more love for the Soviets than they did for the Nazis. They were fighting to conquer as much as they could. I personally can’t believe you support them. It was almost a 3 way war. They were only fighting the Nazis they wanted more territory as well it was an excuse to expand. Hitler and the Russians also agreed to annex Poland together before the war. They didn’t win WWII the clamed the spoils of the fallen countries they conquered. You defiantly are not winning any FACT battle on this you might as well give up.

Originally posted by C'jais

Like what you're doing to Iraq right now? Sure sounds like liberation to me... Face it, if the Iraqi people wanted to elect a communist or a theocratic party, you wouldn't let them, simply because such governments are bad markets for capitalism. Very bad, in fact, and you've been mightily pissed at the Iranians for overthrowing the US puppet-dictator in exchange for a democratically elected theocracy. Sure sounds like great ideals to me. [/b]

Yep your right we wouldn't becouse Comunism is great!!!! They don't have the Human rights problems the US does lol. People don’t have a chance if they do a crime and when they do it’s a show trial. They have little if no human rights, because it doesn't help the force of the Government. They just shoot drug dealers. I'm all for that. Don’t mention all the things in the US you get a slap on the wrist for, but under communist law you get executed....

 

All the crap you listed about all the bad things the USA has done why don't you list all the bad things the Soviets did or the Chinese or the North Koreans or Freaking Saddam...The list goes on and on there are far more countries to pick on that are no fairy god mother. What the USA has done is a drop in the bucket and by the looks of not anything BAD unless you want to make them out to be. As far as dropping bombs on people. It’s better than sending our troops into a “meet grinder” and loosing millions. The difference in American troops and Soviet is you don't have to threaten to kill there families to get them to fight. They also know there not just puppets of an overbearing oppressive government. If Saddam had used Chemical or Nuclear weapons you would have seen another BIG BIG BOMB dropped you could have added to you count. Only 2 Nuclear bombs have ever been used in American warfare and that was against Japan. It was justified, because if they hadn’t Japan would have never surrendered and no force of American troops would have subdued Japan.

Originally posted by C'jais

And yes, for the umteenth time, I'm fully aware that the Soviet Empire was a horrid, brutal regime. Quit it already. [/b]

Yeah so give it up already. Stop supporting what the Soviets did. You are wrong I’m right deal with it…..

[Eldritch]

Originally posted by Cosmos Jack

Yeah so give it up already. Stop supporting what the Soviets did. You are wrong I’m right deal with it…..

I don't think C'jais was supporting what the Soviets did, I think he was just trying to present a more accurate history of events.

[Cosmos Jack]

Originally posted by Eldritch

I don't think C'jais was supporting what the Soviets did, I think he was just trying to present a more accurate history of events.

Hmm so far the only accurate histories of events are the facts witch I have posted...I never disputed Russians died in WWII. Only that they weren't fighting to liberate Europe and that they didn't give more than the Americans just because more of them died. Not only did we actually liberate Europe we didn't set up as occupying force and depose all the countries governments we freed.

 

If you really want to get specific not only did we fight the Germans and meet the Russians in Berlin, but we fought the Japanese we fought on 2 fronts and one the war and lost only 400,000. We interred in 42 and it ended with the defeat of Japan in 45. Yes the war was fought long before we stepped in and nothing was accomplished tell we did. Given the fighting of the Russians if the Nazis had not had a 2 front war they would have defeated Russia. They had to split there forces to fight on both sides.

 

How about those Japanese nobody was really fighting them except the Chinese and little Russian involvment. Mostly everyone was getting the as@s wooped by the Japanese tell America steped in.

 

Lets get more specific and more to the point. I like how "C'jais” says that the US interred the war to little to late to really make a deference.. The Soviets had a packed with the Nazis to divide territories and to not fight. In June 1941 Hitler attacked Russia forcing there entry into the war much like Japan and the US. The allies made a deal with a devil to defeats anther devil. A deference of 6 months... whether anyone wants to admit it or not America liberated Europe not the Russians. It's a simple fact not an opinion. Opinion is that the Soviets fought harder and gave more than the Americans…I’m getting tired of opinions being thrown at me as facts..

 

here are the facts......

http://www.troyhigh.com/academic/socScience/webProjects/russia/Sh_StalinAndWWII.html

[Cosmos Jack]

Originally posted by C'jais

Like what you're doing to Iraq right now? Sure sounds like liberation to me... Face it, if the Iraqi people wanted to elect a communist or a theocratic party, you wouldn't let them, simply because such governments are bad markets for capitalism. Very bad, in fact, and you've been mightily pissed at the Iranians for overthrowing the US puppet-dictator in exchange for a democratically elected theocracy. Sure sounds like great ideals to me.

I like how you keep taking up for Saddam kind of like Soviets you seem to like Oppressive Dictatorships. Maybe that's just how I see you. For whatever resin we are in Iraq the simple fact is he need to be taken out. He wasn't fit to rule anything. He was a mass murder and overbearing dictator. With that said.

 

If Communism was such a great idea how come of all the countries that went communist there are only 2 true communist states left Cuba & North Korea. Cuba isn’t that bad off, but N. Korea sure is hurting. Russia it's self is now Capitalist. Communism doesn’t really work it’s fine in theory. Capitalism & Democracy does.

 

If you could form a good example of Marx's idea. I government were everything was truly evenly distributed amongst all people and everyone had a good standard of livening equal as well as people in power and straight form of democracy added. I would be a Socialist. Something tells me a Dr. livening at the same rate as a janitor isn't going to work though.

[Bonedemon]

The Nazi regime didn´t have to fight a 2 front untill d-day in 44' springtime the 4th of some month I think(can´t remember it precisly). Rusia was allready pushing them back at that time. That´s a FACT

I think they could have done it without US, but the death toll......

 

Marx did suggest democracy as a way of spreading the wealth

equaly.

 

The allies also occupied something called western Germany.

 

The communism, the way it was interpreted ín the soviet union anyway, was far from what was Marxs idea. That can be called a fact.

I think it was a power grab, but that´s just a oppinion/theory

 

The US administration estimated 1 million casualties in the land war against all of Japan including islands around the pacific. Cut the "s" of the war casualties you talked about there.

[Cosmos Jack]

Originally posted by Bonedemon

The allies also occupied something called western Germany.

The only thing I am going to respond to here is this. Not because your right about everything, but because there is no point in arguing the same things I shot down 2 or 3 days ago all over again.

 

There is a big deference from the liberation of western Europe and the Occupation of Eastern Europe by the Russians. The idea that you would say that is totally ignorant and you need to read a little more on the facts I listed above and keep your Opinionated interpretations out of the subject...

 

This isn't a flame. That's just how it is. I expected to come back to something more not the things I shot down 2 or 3 days ago.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

America liberated Europe not the Russians.

Are you going to start that again?

 

Consider this: When the USA invaded half or more of the Nazis were busy getting their butts kicked by the Soviet Union. If Germany wasn't fighting at two fronts (or three, counting UK, which they were still fighting), would you still have won? I'm not too sure about that. I'm not saying that USSR and the UK could have won the war alone, but I am saying that without their help, you couldn't have made it.

 

I have nothing against people who are proud of what the States did during WW II. However, your theory that USA could have liberated Europe without the Allies, and that Soviet and Great Britain should have none of the glory, is highly controversial to me, mainly because it is not true.

 

Edit:

Nazi - Soviet Pact

- Hitler ans Stalin signed ten-year Nazi-Soviet non-agression pact in August 1939

- Promise to remain neutral if other became invovled in War

- Agreement

- Partition of Poland along Vistula

- Soviets : Finland, Estonia, Latvia, and Bassarabia

- Nazis : everything west of Soviet's gains including Lithuania

- Trade treaty and exchange of raw materials and arms

- Stalin caught off guard on June 22, 1941

- Nazi armies attacked Soviet Union

- October 1941 : Leningrad surrounded Moscow beseiged

 

OPERATION BARBAROSSA

- June 22, 1941

- Hitler attacks Soviet Union breaking the Nazi-Soviet Non-agression pact

- Russia's vast spaces and climate advantage

 

BATTLE OF STALINGRAD

- July 1942

- One of the bloodiest battles of WWII

- Over one million Russian soldiers killed

- Russian Winter advantage

- Turning point in war

- 1944

- Soviet pushed their way into Eastern Europe

Don't see where it says the USA won the war, not Russia.. it details the invasion of the Soviet Union and East Europe in good deatail, though. Thanks.

[SkinWalker]

Interesting topic, considering it's origin.

 

However, opinion versus fact is, or should be, an easy enough discussion.

 

The best opinions are supported by facts that both sides of an argument cannot dismiss. That is not to say that a fact cannot become invalid at some point. This happens all the time as new information becomes available in various fields of study (biology, anthropology, evolution, aeronautics, chemistry, etc.)

 

If I walk into my house and attempt to turn on the light and nothing happens, then my opinion is quickly that there is a problem with the bulb. This is because of these facts:

 

1) the vcr is still displaying the time

2) the vcr is on the same circuit as the light

3) my house wiring is reliable and chance of it's failure is extremely low.

4) the bulb is rather old

5) bulbs have had to be replaced in the past

 

So I change the bulb. The light works. My opinion (or theory) held true.

 

But later, I start to think... suppose the bulb was good, but just not seated in the socket correctly. Perhaps the train that creates a vibration when it passes helped unseat it.

 

The bulb has long since gone out with the rubbish, but this possibility still remains. Still, my best theory was the original and was supported by solid facts, despite the other possibility.

 

Facts, therefore, must be a set of data that can be held as true by all parties in a discussion, debate or argument.

 

Opinions, therefore, are interpretations of facts and are best if supported by as many as possible. Opinions are also called theories if they are testable. Theories can be negated by failing to consider all the facts in the set. Many people conjure opinions based on only the facts they like and ignore the remaining facts in the set. These are merely misguided, misleading, or blatantly false opinions and cannot be considered theories since, by design, they do not hold up to scrutiny or allow themselves to be updated or corrected.

 

The guy I don't see anymore used to have a lot of these..... haven't seen those in some time, however.

[Cosmos Jack]

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle

Don't see where it says the USA won the war, not Russia.. it details the invasion of the Soviet Union and East Europe in good deatail, though. Thanks.

Dam I really should have just ignored this. That timeline had nothing to do with showing that the USA won the war. All it was there for was to show the link between the Nazis and the Soviet Union.

 

Once again your not paying any attention to what I'm posting. Than you post a comment. All you serve to do by doing this is confuse other people about what I'm talking about. If you don't understand what I'm saying please don't respond......

[Cosmos Jack]

Originally posted by SkinWalker

If I walk into my house and attempt to turn on the light and nothing happens, then my opinion is quickly that there is a problem with the bulb.

Did you take my College Biology class, because my professor said that exact same thing.

[Reborn Outcast]

Yes, SkinWalker said it very well. It can only be a fact if ALL roads lead to the same conclusion. Not one or two but all.

 

 

And guys... LAY OFF THE NAZI/SOVIET UNION THING ALREADY!!! Thats not the topic of this thread. If you wanna discuss it, please, make another thread devoted specifically to that purpose.

 

Thanks.

[Cosmos Jack]

"Reborn Outcast" you do have a point on makeing another thread, but also of all facts leading to the same conclusion; however, not all will you have to pic the best most creditable facts.

 

I think everyone on here needs to think about where there facts are comeing form and how just there opinions made on them are.

[Reborn Outcast]

But what makes anything a fact? Like Skin said, the person would assume its the lightbulb, however it could be a number of things. Even if a "fact" comes from a credible source, that does not make it true.

 

Think of it this way (I am NOT trying to start something here)

 

Evolution is a THEORY. It may be a WELL SUPPORTED theory but that does not make it a fact.

[Cosmos Jack]

Originally posted by Reborn Outcast

Evolution is a THEORY. It may be a WELL SUPPORTED theory but that does not make it a fact.

That is left up to the observer. If you can look at all the facts that support that theory and still say its not true? Than I have to ask where are that facts that say evolution doesn't happen and see how creditable they are.

 

The bible has no lead way with me it's a book writen by a man just the same as "The Origin of Species" writen by Charles Darwin. One tells us we have no power over life the other says life has power over us. My money is on Mr. Darwin.

 

I used to have a link to a Christen web site that devoted its time to debunking evolution and the age of the world and basically science in general. It was the funniest mess I ever read. The 1 and only reason Evolution isn't a fact is, because religion still stands in the way. Saying evolution doesn't happen is like saying the sun still revolves around the Earth. Religion stood in the way of astronomy as well once.

 

Sorry back on subject now.....

[Reborn Outcast]

Before we get back on topic...

 

Until all the missing links are found, it is still a theory. Not a proven fact from all angles.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Back on topic.

[Cosmos Jack]

If you come upon a flight of stairs and it has a few missing steps do you really have to ask if it is a flight of stairs...

 

Back on topic.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Once again your not paying any attention to what I'm posting. Than you post a comment.

Problem here is, we all knew USSR was connected to Nazi Germany. Nobody deny it anymore, do they, if they ever have? So well, you're not paying too much attention either.

 

Fact: What's true, such as "the light won't go on".

 

Opinion: What you think is true. Such as a good one, such as "I think the bulb's out", or a bad one: "I think it's the fact that my neighbour the Hindu just stepped in and it cursed the bulb..", or "the light goes on. It's just that I'm going insane and for that reason can't see it".

 

Good enough?