razorace Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 You could ask Raven for the standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CortoCG Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 The introduction of ragdoll physics could represent a setback for the animations, I don't know yet how does it work from the modelling point of view. Less from the animating. I only know that death and falling anims won't be required anymore, woohoo! Who should I contact from Raven to get a hint about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Has anyone seen the rolldoll physics yet or is that currently being worked on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 I don't think any type of ragdoll will affect the animation, it should be calculated and blended into the animation seperately. There's an ASE importer available at Sparks, you can just Google for "3ds max ase importer", or just get it off my site: http://nervecore.org:800/emonsbox/files/asciiimp.zip You don't need any specifications on the file, either. It's all ASCII, and extremely simple to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted July 7, 2003 Author Share Posted July 7, 2003 That it is, Emon. .ASE animations are fairly simple to read, it's just a matter of simple detective work to determine how the effect produced by an .ASE animation correlates to a GLA animation. .ASE animation data is in Axis-Angle rotation representation, but it's relativity to basepose position, or if it is just 'repositioning' is something I don't know - it appears to be 'repositioned' and listed at intervals throughout the sequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted July 7, 2003 Author Share Posted July 7, 2003 As far as ragdoll goes, it's not animation based. It's just Ghoul2 collisions on surfaces - I'm not sure why JK2 doesn't have it, probably because the Ghoul2 collision system takes up a lot of CPU cycles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CortoCG Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Thanks Emon, I'm back on business Wudan . What I meant with animations and ragdolls is that I won't have to make death and being shot anims, which are the most difficult to make it believable. And I didn't see ragdolls on JA yet, just a few demos from Havok, although JA's are Havok's. But it's enough to have the right idea of ragdolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted July 7, 2003 Author Share Posted July 7, 2003 JA is going to use Havok? That doesn't make sense ... they have such a thing already 75% implemented with Ghoul2 collision detection ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CortoCG Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Fe de Errate: JA's are not Havok's Sorry bout that Wudan, sometimes I forget to write some stuff . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babywax Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Wudan, sorry I don't want to have the post go off-topic, but I was wondering: Do you think that you coukd implement a clothing mod for Jedi Academy once it is released, since they will have "ragdoll" (don't know how ragdoll it will be lol), maybe you could use the Ghoul2 collision detection on cloaks and things to prevent them from clipping, and then write an algorithm of some sort to make realistic cloth movement? Oh well, just me wishing I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 I'll field that question. Wudan's working on the format end of ghoul2. I have more experience with the API. Anyway, yes, it's possible. We could probably whip up a system with a generic cloak that bolts to the player models. However, the hard part would be making the cloak look good without messing up the frame rate. I bet I could do it. Heck, that's a cool idea. [thinking] To keep things simply, we'd probably have to restrict things to simple cloaks. Jedi robes are cool, but they would require custom models for every player model (as each player model is shaped differently) and would have to account for player movement inside the robes. However, I'd need a bad ass modeller to create a cloak model with correct specifications. I will meditate on this. [/thinking] Tihs would be a great starting point for my Open Jedi Project concept for JKA. [thread hijack] I'm thinking the best way to approach JKA modding will be with a uber-mod that adds as many cool features as possible to the game. It would an open source project as to encourage as many people to use it (and contribute to it) as possible. [/thread hijack] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted July 7, 2003 Author Share Posted July 7, 2003 Actually, such a thing is possible. You could even do capes in JK2 that don't suck ass, it's just that the project would be soooo time consuming and the effect would be about 5 to 10 seconds of "ooooh, that's nifty" I was thinking just make a cape or robe bolt on the player's shoulders and write up some cloth handling functions, the effect would be entirely client side, and would undoubtedly have clipping problems with the wall walking and rolling animations - unless you just spent a lot of time working on making it more and more real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted July 7, 2003 Author Share Posted July 7, 2003 Originally posted by razorace [thread hijack] I'm thinking the best way to approach JKA modding will be with a uber-mod that adds as many cool features as possible to the game. It would an open source project as to encourage as many people to use it (and contribute to it) as possible. [/thread hijack] This is a great idea. Tchouky (the TCK saber guy, for those of you who don't know) suggested something very similar to this in jk2coding a while back, where we oft ask the tough questions like "wtf went wrong with jk2 modding" and while away the hours discussing technique and possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recombinant Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Could we start a new thread/dialog about the Open Jedi Project? I really like the concept - perhaps we can take this discsussion offline from Wudan's thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babywax Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Man capes would be really cool, you could even add special moves to confuse opponents with spins and stuff (I.E. blue style spins ) man that would be fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Here's what I found on ASE after a quick Google. For more details you'll want to Google even more. http://www.solosnake.com/main/ase.htm And clothing is already possible, and not have it suck. Proper weighting will prevent clipping issues with the rest of the model. Deus Ex's trenchcoats are a perfect example of this. When someone with a coat runs, their legs appear to push the coat out of the way. When someone turns their head, it pushes the collar out of the way. And lastly, I'm planning on making an opensource mod for JA to get SP games into MP, if there aren't too many limitations or anything. I'll have to wait for JA and it's tools to come out before making an accurate decision about it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CortoCG Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Capes and cloth could look allright with no clipping thanks to a good vert weighting process. But It won't look realistic even if the best modeller makes it. That's not a modeller's issue, is more an animations thing. Unless you have physics, you need bones to make the cloth move like they're supposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Emon, that would require new models for all the players and/or possibly a new skeletal structure. Anyway, I've set up a thread for the Open Jedi Project. http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104564 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted July 7, 2003 Author Share Posted July 7, 2003 So nice that we've strayed off course Not to worry, I'm going to make a new topic for this as I have a new name for my tools, but I'm not going to say much until model functionality is in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 It wouldn't, razorace. If you weight it properly it won't clip. The way I described Deus Ex sounds like they have animations for the clothing, but they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Well, my concern is getting the cloak to react dynamically to movement and the only way I can imagine doing that (with what we got) would be to use ghoul2 bones to move the cloak around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 1. Yes, razorace, that would be great. I was just talking about proper weighting so it doesn't look like ass. 2. Wudan, up top you said processing power is probably why JO doesn't have ragdoll. Since OpenGL is so CPU heavy, perhaps Raven is not adding a lot of detail to their levels to save processing power for ragdoll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 1. Well, sure. Looking like ass is bad. 2. I know you asked Wudan but I'll toss some of my two cents on it. It's possible that Raven is doing that but I doubt it. Personally, I think it was just a matter of not having time to do it. JO was done in a relatively short period of time and ragdoll isn't a mission critical feature (especially if you have it only affecting players after death) and is very complicated to do right. Heck, HL2 and UT2003 used outside contractors to handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted July 11, 2003 Author Share Posted July 11, 2003 Not 'outside contractors', they used Havok. It's just soft-body physics. If you've got ragdoll 'deaths' then you can have soft-body physics without too much more trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Havok is developed by an "outside contractor". And technically UT2003 uses Karma. It may or may not be made by the same people. And I think you're underestimating the effort required to accurately simulate a human body in motion. There's muscle tensions, bone structures, breaking pressures, etc that have to be accurately modeled for the bodies to fall realistically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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