Why the D&D System Suck!

[setsuko]

ALERT! ALERT! This post might be hazardous to read for D&D fanboys. Because the D&D system sucks. Especially the magic system. And this post is about that.

 

 

Originally posted by Cadam11

I cant believe Set said that DnD was the worst rules system ever made. I dont think I have ever had as much fun playing a "game" as I did playing DnD. I never did play this WHitewolf but I can remember playing 8 hours straight of DnD and never complain about the rules system. The higher level the lower your Thaco goes and then it got the easier it was to hit things, better armor help your AC class. Where is that bad rules in this. ohh well Everyone has their opinions.

 

Ok. Here's a short smackdown on why the D&D rule system sucks. Call it my "10 Things I Hate About You":

 

1) Most importantly, it has levels. Yes, levels works great in computer games, but it sucks major ass when it's introduced in the p&p scene. There's a reason why most game systems developed after the 70's eschewed the idea. It is unrealistic, it is linear, and it really makes character progress dull.

 

2) It has the worst Hit Point system I've ever seen. So, there's no difference between getting an axe in the head, and an axe in the arm? Sweet! And a good fighter can take about ten hits by a normal man armed with an axe? In the head? Sweeter! My god, it sucks so bad. And the fact that you gain hit points as you level up, and that hp gain is based on your job not your traits alone... what where they smoking when they did 3rd edition, and didn't throw most rules out of the window?

 

What's even worse is the fact that injuries in no way affect your capabilites. You can merrily hack away at the same pace, disregarding the fact that you only have 4 hit points left after getting repeatedly hit in your face with a mace. Or the fact that having ten arrows sticking out of your legs doesn't hamper your speed for outrunning those pesky gobbos. Damage is simply hitpoints taken, it doesn't really affect you. This is, arguably, the only thing that is more abstract and malfunctioning than point 4, 6 and 10. I'll deal with those later on.

 

3) It is really, really not flexible when creating a character. Sure, 3rd edition improved on this, but it still sucks in flexibility compared to almost any system. Most fighters are exactly the same. When you see a ranger, you know more or less what he is capable of. A cleric is a cleric, and a mage is a mage. Booo-ring. If you go outside and talk to two plumbers, do you really think that they would be the same? Don't. Think. So. Making a D&D character really rips all creativity out of the process, you literally have both arms tied behind your back. You want to have a fighter that is not the traditional D&D fighter? You're screwed. When you roll that character up, you are sure about what you'll get.

 

4) The magic system. Remembering magic spells? Having to sleep eight hours before I remember it again? Come ON! If you compare the magic system to a good magic system, you'll see the difference. Read Mage: The Ascension. Or even better, Ars Magica. After that, you'll laugh every time you hear D&D's magic system being mentioned, believe me. I do. Magic can be so immense, so much more, so vivid, so interesting, so... so... alive, and yet D&D pretty much kills it and dumbs it down by making it a number of spells. Read Ars Magica, and you'll see what I mean.

 

5) The whole THACO deal. My. God. It's so stupid, it's absurd. Together with the AC abomination, it truly create some weird situations. So, if I wear fifty kilos of plate mail, I'll be really hard for an enemy to hit? But if they hit, I'll still take as much damage as someone wearing only panties? Yeah, sure, that's how armour really works. Has anyone in the TSR (or WotC by now) even held a sword, or even more unlikely, worn a piece of armour? It's not just that they made a bad system. They made a bad system that is so much more complicated than most better systems out there. Comparing it to any other system is embarassing. Try doing it with Eon.

 

6) The magic system. Did I mention it sucks egg? This is your brain. This is your brain on D&D's magic system. It's simply not worth it!

 

7) While I whined about the lack of flexibility in creating a character, it almost gets worse when you evolve and advance your character. It's hard not to compare it to, say WoD, where a character evolves based on his/her actions, the choises, the roads taken. No, not in D&D. There you check what happens when you go from level 8 to 9. "But I spent the entire level learning how to read!" "Yes, but you're a Barbarian. Take your hitpoints and sword proficiency, and be happy". The whole level idea is the main evil here (gaming without levels works fine in most good games), but the idea that all classes evolves the same way is very much a partner in crime.

 

8) Oh, I mentioned classes, did I? Classes sucks. In reality, all firemen are not the same. All teachers are not the same. All policemen are not the same. It's more complicated than that. Do I want it to be more complicated than that when I play RPGs? Yes. I don't want to stand there and hear that I can't pick up that sword, just because I have studied magic since I was young. Let's ask Dr. Phil!

 

"Doctor Phil, does classes sucks in roleplaying games?"

 

"Why, yes, it sucks. You can argue that it is OK in a computer game, but does it belong in p&p RPG, a much more delicate area? Don't think so! Now scram, and buy my book! You see my book about how to achieve harmony in your family? My only advice is: don't use a system that use classes!"

 

9 out of 10 Dr. Phils says: Just say no! To class-based RPGing, that is!

 

9) The well known 'Magic Item Statistics Fixation Problem' (in swedish: "nummer-runkande"). There's too much 'Sword of Swiftness +5' for me to be able to take D&D serious. Sure, it works in Baldurs Gate, but with my p&p crowd? Eh, no. And disregarding that, does the phrase 'longsword +4' sound even really, really remotely cool? Didn't think so.

 

10) The magic system really sucks. "Ooh, I remember how to cast a magic missile three times. Ooops, that was three times, now I forgot. Better go sleep for eight hours, so I'll remember it again. But I can't remember it more than three time, even though I can remember four spells. Because that last slot in my memory is reserved for a second-level spell, and magic missile is only a first level spell!". Seriously, that is the hardest part for me to accept. Doesn't it sound really, really dumb when you try to describe it to someone who hasn't played D&D? My 10-year old little brother could invent a better system. Hell, my cat could. Go read Ars Magica. Learn the difference of a good system and a bad system.

 

My excuse for this dwindling, off topic post (and, you could argue, partly flaming post. Like, how I mentioned that D&D's magic system doesn't know who's it's daddy, since it's momma was a dirtier ho than Cartman's mom. And that it was born with it's feet first. And that when it was born, the word "feces" was happy, since the phrase 'D&D's magic system' took it's place as the ugliest word available. Didn't I mention? Now I did!). My excuse is that I am drunk, and that D&D's rule system, on a more objective level, do suck. Mind you, I don't say that D&D sucks. I totally believe that a lot of people have fun playing D&D. But that is despite the rule system, not because of it. And the frighting thing is that most players play D&D simply because they don't know that there are so many better games out there.

 

Now, to put things on topic, I plan on hanging around with my =A= crew. And have fun, hunt some ugly creatures, down a few beers, build termal detonators, and get a vehicle so we can all go on a picnic. And telling everyone that yes, if you wanted your apartment to be really clean, then use D&D's magic system on it. It sucks so much, that all dirt is bound to dissapear!

[Dr. Zaius]

nice post Set. I agree with you fully.

[setsuko]

Now it is edited too. So people can actually read it.

[Deft Aklin]

[Note to self]

Suggest to Devs that chat window be expandable to full screen size when in room with Set.

[/note to self]

Gotta love her.

 

Side note:

Check the customization of spells in WoD 'Mage The Ascension'

 

That alone proves Set right. Magic should be flexible, not static.

 

I must add though, if it were not for D&D, none of the systems we have mentioned would even exist.

 

Looking back, we probably should have started a new thread for this.

[Jackrabbit]

It's so hard to breath when I'm around set because I'm laughing so hard. You really know how to set people straight. I agree with your post entirely. I play DnD every Friday, and it's fun because the DM knows how to tell a story. Most of the rules, though, have been horribly mangled by us so that they make some sliver of sense. And even then, they’re not so good. DnD has become so bad that we usually just get drunk on Fridays. But, I digress. D10 is definitely the best gaming system I’ve seen so far.

 

[On Topic] I’m looking forward to meeting Boba at some point.

 

[Off Topic] Yeah, we probably should have made a new thread. I think it's out of our system now though.

[setsuko]

Sidious: don't give D&D too much credit. Sure, if it wasn't for D&D, then the RPG genre would not be as big as it is today. But on the flipside, the majority of the rule systems, especially the US ones (europe is way, way less dominated by D&D) would be better constructed. There were other game that evolved at the same time, who had a much saner idea of game mechanics.

 

But yeah, Mage do prove that you can have a magic system that is a hundred times more personal, a hundred times more complicated, a hundred times more complete, and yet use as many rolls as D&D. Word!

 

EDIT: Jackrabbit, glad that I can make your day more enjoyable. Perhaps I should simply drink more often?

 

To sum my feeling up, I can give this example; I'm about to start the Giovanni Chronicles. A WoD campaign, where you play mortals who eventually turns into vampires. My choises when making my character are endless. There are really millions of ways to distribute my starting abilities, and there are few game mechanics that stops me from making the character into what I want her to be. No stupid "oh, but you're a cleric, you can't gain more than one dot in clubs". What it all boils down to is that so many game systems treat the game master and the players as adults, who can judge what is appropriate and what isn't. When I'm making a character, I'm given respect. The respect that the game developers assume I'm a grown person who knows whether or not a hermit should have a maximum proficiency in court politics or not. There's no restrictions, since there's no need for restrictions.

 

When I open up a D&D rulebook, there is no sign of that respect.

[Deft Aklin]

True true Set, but you must remember, D&D is a game for teenagers, while Wod is designed for adults. I don't have a book on me, but most of them, as I recall, have a warning on the cover, for mature roleplayers. There is your difference. Here is a good comparison for you:

 

D&D Marijuana

------ = -------

WoD Cocaine

 

Basically, D&D is nothing more than a gateway game, something easy for players to get started. Once they see the depth of games like WoD, with meticulous background stories that cover nearly every possible immersion factor, then they no longer wish to return to the land of the childrens RPGs.

[setsuko]

But... but... HEY! Now it looks like I made a completely new thread, only to gripe about how much D&D sucks! LOL! Ok, sure, it's not like I can't proclaim my disgust to the whole world, but if I had made such a thread it would count as flaming. Well, major flaming! Hope I don't look like an even bigger ******* than I am, with this!

[Jan Gaarni]

Let me be the judge of that, Set.

 

I haven't read much of them yet. Haven't had time.

My God, what happened to the boards today?