C'jais Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by toms Special effects were very good, but the action scenes never really seemed that exciting, and there was definately nothing to match the classic matrix moments like the lobby scene, or the slow mo helicopter crash. Ehhhh... You mean, like the slow motion truck crash? Or the "Morpheus cuts car with katana and blasts its underside"? Or the whole chateau fight? I'll give you that the smith fight dragged on a wee bit too much, but it was still immensely exciting, and you can easily compare the aforementioned scenes with anything Matrix 1 has to offer. In fact, the first Matrix had way less action than this, it was just spread over the whole film instead of having concentrated dialogues and fights. but the plot didn't make much sense Most people who say this didn't get it. It took me a while to get it as well. If anyone wants, I can get you the whole Architect dialogue. there was almost no movement Plot movement? no character development Exactly the same can be said for Matrix 1 and X-men 2. and many of the new characters weren't explained at all. Morpheus wasn't explained in Matrix 1. Neither was Trinity, or the Oracle. Or Smith. In Matrix 2, OTOH, they actually went to great lengths to cut it out for us. Oh, and the ending sucked... i guess it leads on to the next one, but hardly a thrilling cliffhanger or anything. Debatable as anything else, but I thought it rocked. Some good bits, but not as good as x-men 2. Xmen2... Meh. That movie's action sequences was nowhere near even the first Matrix, the plot was a big joke, and the characters were lame stereotypes and didn't make me care for them at all. oh, and i liked the original, even if i didn't think it was the all time classic everyone on the net seems to think it was. No, on that you're right. Starwars isn't such a great trilogy either, yet many people think it is. All the effect of having a huge, rabid fan culture around them. Die another day, hmm, the first half was one of the best bond films for years... about half way through it started to morph into a sucky generic hollywood action film with terrible sfx and i actually came out of the cinema thinking it sucked. in hindsight it wasn't that bad, but i really hope they don't make the next one the same CGI generic mess and bring back the cool stunts. Bond films..... Blegh. Talk about movies with no original plots and recycled characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I think Reloaded was a great movie, but agree that the scenes in reloaded weren't as great as some of the matrix scenes. The lobby scene is probably my all-time favorite and I think the fights in Reloaded were a bit too rapid, where the scenes in Zion were boooooring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by HertogJan I think the fights in Reloaded were a bit too rapid ...and by this you mean they were really hectic, because they sure as hell weren't short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scabb Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Originally posted by C'jais Most of today's movies show little character development. If you want character development, read a book, or turn off your computer for a while. Where do you find the dialogue laughable? First of all, I haven't slated the Matrix in the way that others have. I like mindless action (read: Films such as "The Matrix") at times, but I also enjoy more intelligent movies. There are plenty of films out there with more worthwhile stories and excellent character development, try anything from the Coens for instance. As for where I find the dialogue laughable.. well, I don't know where to begin. The terrible speech by Morpheus, Neo attempting to have a conversation with anybody - I see absolutely no personality or depth in the Matrix. My argument wasn't against the Matrix itself, but more against the cult that worships every single element of this overtwisted and surprisingly unclever film. I just don't think this film deserves the amount of praise it has received, because at the end of the day it's a pretty simplistic blockbuster. And no, I am not just knocking it because that would be the "cool" thing to do. Also, please don't quote every single point I have made above. I am aware of your opinions, I was just clarifying mine. ¬ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Originally posted by scabb Also, please don't quote every single point I have made above. I am aware of your opinions, I was just clarifying mine. ¬ First of all, I haven't slated the Matrix in the way that others have. I like mindless action (read: Films such as "The Matrix") at times, but I also enjoy more intelligent movies. There are plenty of films out there with more worthwhile stories and excellent character development, try anything from the Coens for instance. As for where I find the dialogue laughable.. well, I don't know where to begin. The terrible speech by Morpheus, Neo attempting to have a conversation with anybody - I see absolutely no personality or depth in the Matrix. My argument wasn't against the Matrix itself, but more against the cult that worships every single element of this overtwisted and surprisingly unclever film. I just don't think this film deserves the amount of praise it has received, because at the end of the day it's a pretty simplistic blockbuster. And no, I am not just knocking it because that would be the "cool" thing to do. Sorry....I had to do it. Anyways, I personally think that the big deal about the Matrix, is the fact that it IS just. Plain. cool, as was mentioned before. It has Kung-fu, Computers, guns, explosions, sentient robots, a big war, sentient programs, like, everything that appeals to nerds on a wolrdwide scale is what these movies are all about. Add to that a very intriguing idea and story line...and.WHAM. Insant Nerd fan-base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_One Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Well, I don't particularly like Die Another Day OR The Matrix So I guess I'm in an extremely small minority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Eggplant Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 I actually have all the bond film's save the newest one on video. I hope that Die Another Day won't leave the forum here, we're all just saying stuff. please come back Die Another Day, Darth Groovy will present you with a six pack of Blue Milk if you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Originally posted by scabb Also, please don't quote every single point I have made above. I am aware of your opinions, I was just clarifying mine. ¬ Sure, no problem. Neo is a bad actor, and the film has been hyped to death for many by the rabid fans, yes - but this simplistic blockbuster is still leagues above the rest of the action genre. Once you start digging at the plot, the composition and all the little clues the directors have placed, I hope you'll at least think it's more cool than most of the action trash available. If not, please recommend me some action movies you think are good. And yes, the Coens are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 actually, i thought the "morpheus cuts car with katana" bit was the only really really cool bit. (why didn't the ghosts just turn etherial when the truck exploded though?) I know there was much more action scenes in reloaded, with better effects, but they didn't seem as exciting or Iconic as the ones in the matrix (like the lobby scene). The smith fight was good, but it definately began to drag. The stairwell fight was pretty boring and unoriginal, and why after seeing neo fly, stop bullets and fight off 100 smiths would 5 or 6 guys with old weapons cause him any trouble? Maybe if they had had that fight first, THEN the smith one. The freeway scene was pretty good (if again possibly a bit long), but just because the effects were good doesn't mean it was hugely exciting. i've seen jackie chan do more exciting things with a bucket The french guy, his wife etc... were the main motivationless characters that annoyed me. Unless they become more important in the next one it seemed like an odd sidetrack away from the zion vs mainframe conflict. I liked the was neo looked confused by everyone asking for his help, nice characterisation there, but most of the other zion scenes were a bit dull, and some of the speeches were very cheesy. if it had ended... with trinity dying, or about to die then it would have been quite cool but then it seemed like there were about 3 more scenes after that, each more tacked on than the last... and the final ending of oh, it all got destroyed but only the bad guy survived just seemed a bit of a letdown. still, about 2/3 way through i started to like the whole matrix within a matrix idea i bet there is a real Cult of the Matrix somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jokemaster Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Originally posted by toms actually, i thought the "morpheus cuts car with katana" bit was the only really really cool bit. (why didn't the ghosts just turn etherial when the truck exploded though?) they did. You have to look closer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Originally posted by toms The stairwell fight was pretty boring and unoriginal, and why after seeing neo fly, stop bullets and fight off 100 smiths would 5 or 6 guys with old weapons cause him any trouble? Maybe if they had had that fight first, THEN the smith one. If you should see it again, you'll hopefully notice that the guys he fought weren't just normal people. Notice that they have a hard time bleeding, for example The french guy, his wife etc... were the main motivationless characters that annoyed me. Unless they become more important in the next one it seemed like an odd sidetrack away from the zion vs mainframe conflict. I loved the french guy (no, not the long showers-way), and I definately think we'll see more of him in the next installment. Persephone might even be fabled mother of the matrix. I liked the was neo looked confused by everyone asking for his help, nice characterisation there Keanu generally has a hard time looking anything but confused with trinity dying, or about to die then it would have been quite cool It did. but then it seemed like there were about 3 more scenes after that, each more tacked on than the last... and the final ending of oh, it all got destroyed but only the bad guy survived just seemed a bit of a letdown. It didn't end like that. still, about 2/3 way through i started to like the whole matrix within a matrix idea I'm not too keen on that idea, and there's plenty of logical proof for why that's not gonna happen. Then again, the directors might make us stare at the next movie, bended over, and take us from behind with some overwhelming surprise. i bet there is a real Cult of the Matrix somewhere... No doubt. Many people genuinely believe in the matrix idea like some kind of religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Originally posted by C'jais Persephone might even be fabled mother of the matrix. I like the idea that she is the mother of the matrix.......I like that idea a lot. And that might lead to an explanation of WHY she likes kissing people so much. (The people who've played Enter the Matrix through with niobe AND ghost know what i'm talking about!!!) Then again, the directors might make us stare at the next movie, bended over, and take us from behind with some overwhelming surprise. I like that analogy.........a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quotation Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 A little late, but, in regard to the initial post... This forum is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one blind conclusion-drawing thread to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the 20th thread. (Sorry if anyone's offended, couldn't resist. Thanks to neil_j for this one...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 Originally posted by ET Warrior I like the idea that she is the mother of the matrix.......I like that idea a lot. And that might lead to an explanation of WHY she likes kissing people so much. Well... Maybe she just likes kissing because almost everyone does?? Hey if I were in her position, I'd ask trinity to kiss me too!! Gotta love the catsuit *roar* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Bah, I find Trinity to be Rather UN-attractive. If I were persephone I would try to get.........MYSELF to kiss myself. Because Persephone is really hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 Originally posted by ET Warrior Bah, I find Trinity to be Rather UN-attractive. If I were persephone I would try to get.........MYSELF to kiss myself. Because Persephone is really hot. Well you're right, but I had to give an example to illustrate my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 i got that those guys on the stairwell weren't normal... but then on the other hand they didn't seen to have any interesting abilities or powers (like agents or the ghost guys) so it was a pretty boring fight scene. I think i have put my finger on why i didn't find the fight scenes as exciting as the first one (apart from them all being too long). In the original film there was a feeling that any human who took on an agent was going to get his ass kicked... and therefore a feeling of danger and excitement. In this one everyone seems to be near enough invunerable, neo never seems to get worried and throws around smiths like they are nothing, morpheus and trinity no longer seem intimidated by agents. Fights where no-one is going to get hurt aren't that exciting. Ok, so if the ghost twins turned etherial, how come they didn't keep coming after morpheus? Ok, everyone seems to agree that persephone is hot, but who IS she and what does she want? Personally i have no idea. I have no real idea who the french guy is (and can't even remember his name) even if he seemed to be fun. What are his motivations? We have no real idea of who the architect is or her motivatiosn, no idea about the Oracle, or her bodyguard, no idea about smith, no idea about that kid who loves neo, etc... etc... etc... Now i like films with mysterious character and plot twists, but they have basically set up a scenario where anyone could be anything... hardly clever or fun. What it does do i guess however is allow everyone to have their own idea about what will happen. But personally it seems that they have left the options SO open that whatever happens won't be a suprise. I've been looking around the web, and it seems this discussion is repeated in an infinite number of places, with the world being split about 50/50 into those who thought it was an amazing 10/10 film (and either liked the architects speech cos they think they understood it and it makes them feel clever, or because they didn't so it must be clever) and those who thought it was about a 6/10, dragged a bit, was a bit confused (or confusing) and was fairly disappointing. maybe this discussion is what they were aiming for, but there is now about 50% less people who will be eagerly awaiting the next one, and they will have to actually make something credible of all these threads they have created. with trinity dying, or about to die then it would have been quite cool It did. no it didn't. neo saved her instantly, negating any sort of exciting, moving ending. then they carried on ok, so zion WASN'T destroyed (my mistake), but looking around to check on this it seems a lot of people made the same mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted June 2, 2003 Share Posted June 2, 2003 It seems that you and I have a difference of opinion on what makes something exciting...... To ME, it's exciting when a LOT of people are fighting with martial arts and the good guy is DE-stroying them, and adding cool weapons into the mix, just makes it even cooler!!! Did anyone else almost shout for joy when Neo Force-pulled those two...dagger-esque weapons whose names elude me.... to him? and either liked the architects speech cos they think they understood it and it makes them feel clever, or because they didn't so it must be clever Or perhaps we understood it and realized that it was, in fact, a very new and unexpected plot twist that was really exciting to us? In this one everyone seems to be near enough invunerable, neo never seems to get worried and throws around smiths like they are nothing, morpheus and trinity no longer seem intimidated by agents. Perhaps you missed the scene towards the end when Trinity got MESSED up by an agent, and dove out of a 20th story window to try and escape him? She was only saved by Neo. (Did anyone else almost scream for joy AGAIN when he was flying so fast the vacuum he created blew out the windows of buildings?) Or perhaps the scene where Morpheus, who we know has already taken on Agent Smith, fought an agent and had it not been for Niobe in a car following the Semi....HE would have died. It's not a matter of them not being afraid, it's more a matter of necessity. Morpheus HAD to protect the Keymaker, so he HAD to fight Agent Thompson (that was agent thompson, right?) Trinity was stuck in a hallway with the agent and also had no choice but to ATTEMPT to fight her way out of it, she had nowhere to run. Also, at the beginning when Neo first fought the agents, everybody BUT Neo ran away, because they fear agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.