Ockniel Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 how many of you plan your map before you make it and how many of you create as you go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedge2211 Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 ALWAYS plan. Winged maps tend to suck wholesale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgoer Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Even if you think you can't draw, sketch out your map on paper. Sketch out everything. Draw a complete plan. If you don't, it will show--and believe me, it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 I don't have the patience to plan. If i did plan, by the time i was done planning i'd be too bored of the design to bother recreating it. The basic process for me: Dream up the basic design (which could simpily be one scene). Build the design in 3d, and from that i become more inspired by what's already there and i add to it accordingly. Plan if you need to. No one way is better than the other, just different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgoer Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Originally posted by Scarlett No one way is better than the other, just different. Well, if "better" doesn't mean "carries benefits without drawbacks," then yes--I guess you're right. Plan your map. If you don't, it will suck. By the way: the time you "waste" planning is spent far better than the time you do, in fact, waste by making a piss-poor map through wingin' it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenikDelan Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 my philosophy has become to have a writing pad (or if youre always near a computer, your Word DOC ) handy at all times. Then start jotting down your ideas. They dont even have to be in any order, or even make sense to anyone else. You can always rewrite/retype it up later. This has been extremely useful to me, because my mind is always wandering from room to room, so everything gets jumbled. And i cant focus and work out one room before going on to the next, because by that point, Ive forgotten any good ideas i may have had for another area. And as for drawing out the map, Ive found that graph paper is EXTREMELY helpful, seeings how its what you are going to be ending up drawing your map on anyway. Well, thats the method to my madness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Killa Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 I chose the wingit one but i'm half and half I'll have a plan for the entire map in my head then I'll draw the VERY basic outline of a few parts on paper to see if it looks funny. then i go to radiant and build some stuff and if it looks like crap I try to modify it a bit. Then a make all the small details as I go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Originally posted by rgoer Plan your map. If you don't, it will suck. That's a lot like saying, "If you don't use a photograph to base a painting on, it will suck". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 No, that's more like saying, "If you don't have an architectural blueprint of a building, it's likely to crumble." Planned maps tend to have less errors as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgoer Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Originally posted by Scarlett That's a lot like saying, "If you don't use a photograph to base a painting on, it will suck". This is nothing like what I said before. If you want a paiting allegory, though, try this on for size: "if you don't use a preliminary sketch to base a painting on, chances are your painting is going to fail." Do you know how the great masters actually worked? An artist like Rembrandt Van Rijn did numerous sketches, on top of which he did numerous "underpaintings." He only contemplated starting the final rendering in oils after everything, down to the last little lighting detail, had been planned out to an almost obscene degree. Come on--don't antagonize me into debating this kind of baseless drivel, please. Go ahead, "wing" your map; just be sure to ask for critique in the showcase forum and see what you get. It will suck--that I guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldritch Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 That might be a little too harsh, rgoer. It's certainly possible to turn out a good map by winging it... though it's certainly not likely. I think that's the point rgoer was trying to make. 99% of the time maps that have some type of planning turn out better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fattysbox Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Come on--don't antagonize me into debating this kind of baseless drivel, please. Go ahead, "wing" your map; just be sure to ask for critique in the showcase forum and see what you get. It will suck--that I guarantee. Well, Im no season mapper as you may be, BUT I can recognize an a$$hole when I see one. That is really rude for you to denounce other peoples practices as less than what YOU think. While you may be right and maps that are planned may statistical be better than a winged version, thats no reason to lambast someone elses intentions, and for all you know, his/her map may be far superior to your own... This forum is for insightful discussion, not for the baseless drivel presented here by rgoer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgoer Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Heh, fine--I'll grant that that last post was a little on the assholish side. But I'm not sitting here posting just to "denounce other people's practices as less than what I think"; I was simply trying to share the benefit of my experience, and got trolled by the "painting" statement. Here, allow me rephrase my overall point: in the past, I, myself, have tried to make maps without planning them first, and they always came out less than stellar, even sucky. Since I started planning my maps, I can't say I've suffered the same failures. There, a little less invective, a little less confrontational, but the same overall point: I'm just trying to help others with the benefit of my experience. And, by the way, my drivel is never baseless. ;^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedge2211 Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 At least do what I do...grab a pad of graph paper and a pencil, fix yourself some scale (I use 1 graph unit = 256 game units, hey, I write and draw small), and plan the locations of all the rooms you will include, corridors you will use to connect them, and doors and elevators. Here's an example. You don't have to plan where every single table, console, strut, beam, antenna, and window is, in my opinion. Just make sure you have a plan for the overall layout. Then you can take the details as you go. I do like to have some sort of idea in my head of what each room or corridor will look like, but I don't always sketch out every set of overhead I-beams in great detail. I just kind of think, okay, I want this to be a long corridor with lots of overhead struts, and then I take it away. I can say, however, that my very few "beginner" maps (unreleased), were completely made by the seat-of-the-pants method. I just loaded up Radiant, and started building rooms. This was horrible. I couldn't fit in everything I wanted to, since I had built stuff where other things should have gone, I didn't know where things were going to be, I had corridors going off into space, nothing fit together, nothing made sense. They sucked wholesale. Don't follow that path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 DeTRiTiCi-iQ winged Can Yun-O Ace Is? in about four hours. It's for the original Jedi Knight, based upon the original Canyon Oasis for that game. It's very well designed, has excellent gameplay and flow, and is in my opinion, superior to the original, which many think is one of the best deathmatch levels designed for any game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Killa Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 This is turning into a "plan your map or u suck thread" IMHO I will on occastions plan my map on paper and I always end up doing the exact opposite. Like my map in the showcase forum. I had planned the 4 outer platforms to have 3 smothed out but defined points. I ended up making it as a kidney shape. I ussually only draw something when I want to know how it will look rather than design the basic layout of my map. I think ppl should be able to do what they want and I think this thread is leaning towards the ideaoligy(sp?) of having to plan your map or will suck.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgoer Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Very true, Lil Killa--and flamewars always suck, planned or otherwise. In any case, I hope people can see past the jerk-ish words I chose to the actual wisdom I was trying to pass on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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