View modes in Jedi Knight Academy

[HarryScrotum]

Will Jedi Knight Academy have the same view modes as JKII? All the screen shots I have seen show only 3rd person mode for light sabers, but JKII had 1st person for light sabers. Will JKA have 1st person for light sabers in single player mode too? Just curious. Thanks,

 

Harry S.

[Neverhoodian]

Hmmm, I dunno about that, Harry S. It's never been mentioned before in any of the interviews/previews. I suspect that it will be in the game, though. After all, JO and JA use the same engine. The first person lightsaber mode was always disorienting for me, though.

[HarryScrotum]

I have the opposite reaction. I find the 3rd person view more disorienting. Well, I guess we just have to wait and see. If anyone finds out please let me know. Thanks for the reply!

[Nemios]

In MP there should be again the cvar CG_FPLS which you can set, but I don't know if a traspearent skin is provided. In the worst case we'll have to use the one from JO.

 

In SP I don't know, but I hope 1st person saber is still there 'cause I find it more enjoyable too.

[praenuntius]

In first person mode, I reckon the camera should spin and roll just like you see your body do in third person. It would really add to the immersion I think.

 

Obviously not everyone would this realistic camera pivoting, so it should just be an option.

[Troopr-Undr-Fir]

I hope they have a 1st person view for the sabre again...but I think they should have spent time so u could actually do some moves in that mode...or it would be pointless IMO.

[HarryScrotum]

How do you set the option that Nemios mentioned "cvar CG_FPLS"? I want to give it a try in JKII so when I get JKA I will know how to try it. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

[Rocketman]

Well if the demo is any indicaiton there is not any first person saber view, which really upsets me. i like most of you prefere to play in first person, and if it is not in gold version it damn well better be in a patch.

[Kurgan]

It looks like "melee" (fists) and all three lightsabers are forced into third person only in SP. : (

 

However, I *hope* they will retain the CG_FPLS 1 cvar for MP (which worked great in JK2 MP... just bind it to a key and bind CG_FPLS 0 to another key to switch back) in the full version... it would be a crying shame if they didn't!

[Tyler_Durden]

I'll tell you man, if it isn't in there that is some bullsh*t. This game is being touted as a "first person shooter". Very dumb of a game company when it doesn't totally live up to what its game supposedly is. "But you can use guns in first person" is what people would argue. Please. It's a god damn option, what's the big deal about letting a big size of the community who plays in the first person not have this option? Were they too lazy to skin every costume option so it would be transparent in first person and therefore decided it would be too much of a chore to leave it out of the game? If that is the case, that is a very lame excuse.

 

You could also argue that the claim that the game is a first person shooter is false advertisement. Is it a total first person shooter? Nope.

 

I am very pissed about this. I want the damn option in the gold edition or at least a command to do it. I have been anticipating this game for almost six months. I played outcast, greatest game ever, but this game....... i dont know. Very bad move.

[Leo Soontar]

The Jedi Knight series has been special for its double first person/third person playable. You can choose whatever view you'd like to fit your playing needs. And it works so well in the past games, that I've never seen any other game mix the 2 styles in so well. It'd be a shame if they wouldn't do the same for JA. Bad Lucasarts!

[Rocketman]

i think its arrogant of them to say, to their lifeblood (consumers), that "oh its easier to playin 3rd person, so we are making you even if you don't want to. yeah we know many fans of the series like to feel like they are actually weilding the saber in first person, but it would take time so we dn't give a damn."

[boinga1]

People, it is JUST A GAME. You don't have to buy the thing. You didn't spend years of your life making it. You aren't always going to get your way in this world, and when you don't you should behave responsibly and with maturity. Cussing out the company that made the game IS NOT going to help anything. If you need to vent your anger, go outside and scream REALLY REALLY loud. If you HAVE to have the option so bad that you can't possibly even TRY to adapt to third person view, then you should probably decide if:

a)you really ever wanted this game in the first place

b)you are as mature as you need to be at this point in your life

 

Besides, they didn't include the option in JO MP (without using the console), and I didn't hear you whining then.

 

Thank you, and good day!

[Tyler_Durden]

if you were anticipating the game for a long time and then suddenly you find that they didn't put the feature that is most important to you in it, don't tell me you wouldn't bitch......please. Plus all the mods that i had been planning out and doing artwork for, well this situation shot it all to hell.

 

And not saying anything is not going to do any good so therefore i am venting my anger and frustration at those responsible, yeah that's right. Hmm, maybe if i whine and bitch even more, they'll do something about it....... it really seemed to work with JO.

 

And yes i really WANTED this game, and i DON'T play multiplayer cause it SUCKED and no amount of saying or doing could have changed that. But this here is a different story.

 

Thank YOU, and good day

[boinga1]

You are most welcome.

 

Although I must disagree that MP did NOT suck. You actually played JO SP for over a year and no MP? Impressive. I got tired of it after a few times through. Still...you must admit the default JO first person view WASN'T the best. (correct me if I'm wrong) You couldn't pull off a Yellow DFA, a wall run...overall, mobility and the ability to use special moves was diminished. JA would work TERRIBLY with first person. The very heart of all the new moves(staffs, dualsabers, and Katas) would not be possible, because almost all involve some spinning, which you cannot do in first person. You would either be crippled in your moves, essentially leaving you with plain old Jedi Outcast maneuvars and a new storyline.

 

And is the first person view REALLY the most imortant feature in JA? I mean, you've got dual sabers, double-bladed sabers, character customization...is all that for naught simply because a lack of ONE feature (seldom used by most people, I must add)?

 

And I also must tell you that you aren't really venting at Lucasarts. No one officially from Lucasarts browses these boards. One guy from Raven is sometimes here. And he hasn't posted in this thread. The only people who hear your message are us, your fellow gamers. If you walk into a crowded room and cuss out someone who isn't there, don't the other people there have a right to be offended? Shouldn't they be considered before you just start cussing?

 

Anyway, Mr. Durden, I beg you to reconsider your thoguhts about Jei Academy, and to try to exercise a little more self-control. In the real world, losing it like this can cost you. It might not here, if you're lucky.

 

Good day again (although it is really night).

[Marine]

No one said it was definate.

[Andy867]

Originally posted by Tyler_Durden

This game is being touted as a "first person shooter".

 

And it is a First-person shoot.. You dont shoot with lightsabers.. You swing lightsabers;) cept when you throw them... but then they come back. And actually, its not that Raven was lazy, but they had a very specific deadline that they had to hit due to their licensing agreement with LucasArts. It was either hit the mark, put out a a great game, and keep LucsaArts. OR the latter which is delay the game, which makes the fans unhappy, they put in some extra unncessary features which most people wont use since not every skin will be used, and put out a great game, but lose licensed contract to LucasArts for failing to come through, hence the end of the Jedi Knight series with a great developer.

 

But personally, I didn't care for the 1st person saber view... Since i was strictly 3rd person since the get-go, thats all I used for saber and it seemed to help out in matches when I needed to know where I was in relation to the opponent.

[ForceMaster]

Originally posted by Andy867

And it is a First-person shoot.. You dont shoot with lightsabers.. You swing lightsabers;)

 

Good point. I have to agree. All I ever used 3rd person for was when wielding my lightsaber. Of course that was usually my weapon of choice...still is actually.

 

Also, if you by a game for just one option then you really are wasting your money. The attraction with the JK series for me lies in the story and the gameplay. I also enjoyed the increasingly complex graphics that are rare for LucasArts products (ex. rebel assault).

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Tyler_Durden]

Then to you all, good luck and enjoy your mediocrity. I have played the best and i expect no less, especially with this game. Those of you who answered as i have predicted you would, have in fact. I will not buy this game, i will have no part of this forum or it's people from here on. Ops you might as well erase my account. Flamers don't bother replying as your words fall on deaf ears. I'll be there one day when someone who knows what they're doing makes a great game. It is obvious that it won't come from either raven or lucasarts at this time.

[Faustus]

You know Tyler, the fictional character that you based your tag on (Tyler Durden from the book 'Fight Club') was a violently anti-social anarchist who like you believed in being a voice of descent, and rejecting what he called 'the herd. (e.g. One man has the right to stand against society, for what ever reason he chooses) Unlike you however, he had respect for people who worked hard developing a skill (Like training in technical courses for years to develope the ability to craft games like Jedi Academy) and chose to admire anyone who felt that they could CONTRIBUTE. In what way have you chosen to contribute to our little informal club here, by insulting us and something we happen to like? So we're all predictable and mediocre are we? If we're all such unadaptable pricks, than why are you the one who's running away? Don't be such a space monkey.

[MattJedi]

OMG!! ROFL!!!! That was great!!! Damn man I loved every word of that!

[Nemios]

Originally posted by Kurgan

It looks like "melee" (fists) and all three lightsabers are forced into third person only in SP. : (

 

This is a BAAAD news for me

Why Raven? Why Chang? Wasn't the feature already there? SP won't be as great as I expected. Sure, storyline, Star Wars and so on, but if I can't feel I'm there it will be no more than watching TV to me. You've stolen me a dream...

 

Maybe a patch?

 

Originally posted by Kurgan

However, I *hope* they will retain the CG_FPLS 1 cvar for MP (which worked great in JK2 MP... just bind it to a key and bind CG_FPLS 0 to another key to switch back) in the full version... it would be a crying shame if they didn't!

 

Actually you can save a key if you bind a single key with CG_FPLS ! ("!" negates the last value).

If the cvar works we probably won't have a trasparent skin since it's not a necessity in SP. Maybe we can use the one from JO.

 

Originally posted by boinga1

Besides, they didn't include the option in JO MP (without using the console), and I didn't hear you whining then.

 

Actually I "whined" (politely) and talked with Chang (Mike Gummelt) via email about it. We also discussed about possible solutions for a patch. Eventually the last patch (1.04) at least provided the cvar, I hope they'll provide the option as well if it's only a time problem.

Come on guy! Make us happy again!

[Kurgan]

Still...you must admit the default JO first person view WASN'T the best. (correct me if I'm wrong) You couldn't pull off a Yellow DFA, a wall run...overall, mobility and the ability to use special moves was diminished. JA would work TERRIBLY with first person. The very heart of all the new moves(staffs, dualsabers, and Katas) would not be possible, because almost all involve some spinning, which you cannot do in first person. You would either be crippled in your moves, essentially leaving you with plain old Jedi Outcast maneuvars and a new storyline.

 

See, that's the thing that got me, Raven has been saying that the reason they force you to use 3rd person with sabers is because it is "easier" and because that's how they like to play. Simple and reasonable explanation.

 

But then why did they include a flawed (looks cool but you can't do acrobatic moves) version in JK2 SP and make the MP version (which btw was perfect.. you could do ALL acrobatic moves and the camera would NOT make you sick at all) only accessible via a little-known cvar command?

 

I guess the team that did the SP version of JK2 must have run out of time and so they just included it for the sake of "oh look this is cool" and so you could block blaster shots easier in 1st person.

 

The MP team probably did it for personal preferences. But at least they left the cvar in.

 

As long as JA MP has a similar CVAR option, I will be happy. It's too bad about the SP view, but perhaps somebody could mod it (by messing with the FOV/Zoom options perhaps?).

 

And is the first person view REALLY the most imortant feature in JA? I mean, you've got dual sabers, double-bladed sabers, character customization...is all that for naught simply because a lack of ONE feature (seldom used by most people, I must add)?

 

Admittedly, those who play JK games with sabers in first person is a minority. But I agree with them on that it should be included as an option. They already accomplished it in JK2, so why couldn't they just simply port it over and include it as a command?

 

It's sort of like fists. Pre-release time Raven was shooting people down who asked by saying that they didn't think fists fit into their vision of the game, etc. but then when it finally came out, you could use a cheat to get them. So Raven was cool about it. They maybe had some guy throw it in at the last minute just for kicks, and it was a fun option.

 

Hopefully the same will be true here...

 

And I also must tell you that you aren't really venting at Lucasarts. No one officially from Lucasarts browses these boards.

 

"Unofficially" yes, but there are nearly 20 people registered from Raven/LA on these boards. They may not post, but they definately lurk. The fact is that these guys are not the president of LA or George Lucas. They can't just say whatever they want, but have to follow certain guidelines about what kinds of information they leak about their games. They also aren't going to sully themselves by getting into flame wars with every single person who complains about a feature.

 

That they are here at all is something we should be proud of. =)

 

That said, we can use CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, and share opinions without resorting to petty flaming or personal insults. It's all part of being in this community. Just takes some practice sometimes.

[Tyler_Durden]

Ok, after thinking about this for the whole weekend and going over and over about it in my mind, maybe i did go and say some things that were in fact out of line. At this point i would like to apologize to all those who were offended by my rants. I know that raven and lucasarts did in fact work hard developing this game. True. Just the fact that an option that drastically changes the way i play the game was taken out and in turn radically changes my style of playing, it upset me greatly.

 

So after pondering whether or not to disregard this game totally i came up with a profitable solution. I would pay whomever came up with a way to play this game in the first person, just like outcast. I would go and give someone maybe 40 bucks to figure this out and post the solution. In the meantime i could still concentrate on my mod that i've had in my head since before outcast ever came out.

 

Faustus, the reason i have elected to go with the Tyler_Durden name in this forum is because i do in fact share a lot in common with the character. I Try not to think conventionally, i try to go against the grain and and like to project a sense of nonconformity, in other words i speak my mind and sometimes it offends people, but at least i speak it. I do in fact respect other people's skill development, i know it takes years and a lot of time with programming manuals to learn these things. I myself have spent long years of my life learning about drawing and illustration, i have learned how to put pc's together and maintain them, and expand my knowledge in that area, also learning how to mod this engine was a big step in which i am still learning new things all the time.

 

I also like to think that, like tyler, i am enlightened about certain things. I have ideas about what should or should not be. In terms of this game i had very vivid ideas about what i thought it was going to be. Unfortunately that is not the case it seems.... yet. I have on many occasions spoken my thoughts on these boards on what i think the greatest star wars game could be, only to have my ideas shot down by those in the "herd" who do not and cannot think out of their own collective consciousness. i came to three conclusions about these people 1. they can't comprehend such a thing 2. the can't believe it 3. they just plain don't want to believe it.

 

I have grown up with these movies as well as these games and i know for a fact that the games we have had in the past are not even close to what can be done with the technology we have today. I know that the people involved are capable of more and better. Take the Q3 engine for example, there are literally dozens of engines that can do more and do it better (Bungees Halo engine, Unreal 2, Doom 3, Half life 2). Yeah it will take time, years perhaps, but time we have. You say i am a space monkey. Yeah maybe. But i can say that i have a greater imagination and a clearer thinking than many of my peers, that if i had the programming knowledge and a job developing these games, along with my illustrative skills, then what would stop me from making the single greatest star wars fps ever?

[RonO]

Good debate. I'm glad it's brought up.

 

I am a single-player gamer...only. I play games for the single player aspect. I've long since passed the need to play MP. Sure, I had fun when I did it, but my desires for *my* personal entertainment have changed. So, those memories of playing against a group of frields in Doom/Heretic/Duke/etc (yes, I could go on, but are the games really that different?) are just that, memories.

 

To further state my playing style, I am a first-person shooter single player...only. I don't play games other than first-person shooters. So why do I play this way? The levels. After the initial game is played and consumed, I hope the community creates single player levels I can enjoy. At times I'm inspired to create my own levels and I hope others enjoy them. But it's still about me playing against the level design. Period.

 

Specifically related to JO, I can say with some pride I managed to beat the game while playing it as a FPS (Jedi Knight level). I can honestly say I did not miss any 'tricks' because I didn't use a third-person perspective. Because it was about the game, not the moves.

 

Specifically related to JA, I can stay I will *not* be purchasing the game if the only option for sabre mode is third-person. I do not enjoy third-person. Will I miss out on what would otherwise be a great game? Probably, but I will not sacrifice my own personal enjoyment for the sake of a game crafted in a world I like.

 

If they release it from the start or patch it in shortly after release, I'll consider it for later purchase. Otherwise, I'll wait for the next FPS game to come out. Half-Life or Doom 3 are on their way.

 

Sure, it's just a game. Which is why I have the option to not play it.

 

Good day to you all.

 

Ron