boinga1 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Has anyone tried setting saber throw to 0? I heard that allowed you kicks for ALT fire instead of throw. I don't know if it's true, but it would allow you to kick and not use the staff. I'll go check it out. EDIT: Nevermind, this doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllKyNeSlll Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 The tenloss scope shoudl activate and deactivate on touch rather than a 1 sec delay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{DHU}Screed Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Yeah I have a gripe with the tenloss scope too, as a Merc in the one siege game I was Boba Fett with the jet pack. Flying from roof top to roof top and sniping is sweet, but the scope takes to long to deactivate. I got killed several times by a rocket b/c I took that last second shot, went to turn my rocket pack on but the damn scope took to long to deactivate. Saber only sucks in JA. All the noobs that play Jedi in the Siege game get totally owned by my l33t sniping skills. Boba > Jedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllKyNeSlll Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 owned by a saberist to mention as well with 150+ ping on american servers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 heh, yeah the sniper scope delay is a very big gripe from all of the twl gunners as well. it's another example of a nerf that was not needed but put it and screwed some thing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HFB_Muerte Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Originally posted by the weiner dog! Try reading what I just posted. Not to mention most ladders require you to play with friendly fire on (almost all competitive games are like this in all leagues). Do you have any idea how annoying and impossibly frustrating that would make competition play? Guys again, having every single glancing blow and bare knick do instant death is a bad idea. That is why this problem can not be solved with an across the board damage cvar. So essentially what you are saying is that by removing kick they killed CTF. I thought you were all arguing that saber damage was too weak which is why kick was so effective in the first place. Now that kick is gone and saber damage can be controlled I don't know what the issue is. I'm sure what you are saying is true, that CTF is no longer viable in JA...I think that with time things will adjust and you'll find CTF, although different from JO, is just as doable as it ever was. I'm SURE a reasonable damage scale can be found that will not cause insta-kills but will make the FC a lot more vulnerable. I know you'll still argue your points, but I just thought I'd throw two cents in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boinga1 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 A little off-topic here...has anyone else gotten a lot of LAG playing? I have a pretty good connection, been playing JO for months with no problem, but all of sudden in JA I have lots of trouble in Power DUel and Siege especially. And, in s/o ctf, how did you ever catch a runner in the first place? You say that removing kick means you can't hit him when you chase him from behind... For the record, if you play SABER ONLY, the whole point is to have close-up fighting. the saber was not designed for pursuits, so it is rather unsuited to capture the flagging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Blackrose Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Originally posted by boinga1 A little off-topic here...has anyone else gotten a lot of LAG playing? I have a pretty good connection, been playing JO for months with no problem, but all of sudden in JA I have lots of trouble in Power DUel and Siege especially. I agree on there being some interesting latency issues. That and it takes about 3 minutes to go from Awaiting Gamestate to the loading screen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Originally posted by Doctor Shaft To add to that, the kick is not nearly as effective as the old kick. So now, the elite players aren't just going to use whatever they have to win, they're going to be using something that will probably jsut give them more headaches. But why isn't it potentially (once people get the hang of it) as effective as the old kick? What can you do with the old kick that you cannot with the new kick? People may not be as good with it right off the bat, but if they can achieve the same ends, then eventually people should be just as good and effective with the new kick as with the old. Originally posted by Doctor Shaft Having the saber staff become the solution is just downright.... wrong. That would mean that everyone is stuck with one set of moves to use. While the old kick was considered spammy or whored, at the same time, it still allowed for variety. It did not hinder what people could do. If you liked blue stance, yellow stance, etc., you could still use it, even though the results may have varied. The S/O CTF needs a solution that doesn't involved limiting the game to ONE saber style. Even JO had three. But from what I understand, no one really uses the lightsaber anyway, because it is too week. From what I understand, the red stance is used for DFA and the heavy damage. Did anyone use the light and medium stances in JO S/O CTF? All I have heard is how the lightsaber was just a glowrod. That is why kicking is so important, because even Red isn't good enough to kill, so kick becomes the premier weapon. So if no one used other stances (correct me if this wasn't the case), why is there a problem with just using the lightstaff? And in any event, why do competative players care? They just want to use what wins. Whether it is one stance or several stances shouldn't matter to them. Originally posted by Doctor Shaft The best kick user in the history of Jedi Outcast was a guy from =X= named Idiot Savant. He could do things with those double tap kicks that even to this day make the best of the best stand there with open mouths in amazement. Take a map like ctf_ns_streets. He would chase a flag carrier down who was moving at 90 miles per hour with level 3 speed and protected from pulls by absorb, swoop down from almost out of no where and land on a two inch section of a ledge just at the exact moment the flag carrier passed it, and then precisely kick and angle his shot to score a knock back in the opposite direction to knock the guy off for a pit death and return his flag. All executed with almost surgical precision that even many elite players could not match. The kicks and how they were used on competition level play is nothing like how they are used by average players on public servers. For us they are a very complex and precise tool we used in multiple situations to get the job done. Do you know ho to rush a person head on and then do kick directly face to face in a straight line but send the guy off in a 90 degree angle to his doom (like off a ledge) with out ever changing your player direction to angle the impact point? He does sound impressive. But is there anyhing about the new kick that would prevent him from becoming equally effective in JA? As far as I can tell, all the abilities of flip kick are present in the staff kick. If it is not, what is lacking? Likely people aren't going to be as good with it as the old way yet, but after practice they should be just as good if they can do the same things. You are be able to move in one direction and kick in another, since the staff kick has this ability (whether I can do it is or not is anotehr story ). Originally posted by Doctor Shaft Where kicks are a major factor in ff/so ctf can be seen on maps like the new coruscant streets (or w/e it is called). a capper has to watch his ass because of all those ledges and such when he makes a run for the flag or is on his way back. You got a guy guarding a bridge mid way and even with absorb, if you try to leap over him he will do an offensive push/pull to stun you just as you leap, run in and kick you off in a single shot (while you are in the recovery animation) to your doom and return his flag. Now with kicks gone, you run, leap, he stuns you, and... as he trys a Kata, you walk around him, stop, call him a moron and keep on trucking. But again, he is able to kick him off the ledge with the new kick, isn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 velocity kicks = not possible with staff kick kicking on the move = not possible on anyone that is moving and has half a brain flip kicks require you to jump and usually involve using push/pull to get the kickee to come within range and stun them. pull kicking wtih the staff = not possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{DHU}Screed Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 The "new" kick is extremely limited. First, only the saber staffers can execute it, so basically (If that kick did work like in JO) you just took out the other 2 lightsabers. Think cookie cutter. At least in outcast you did have people that used light stance (me for example) instead of the heavy stance and were still able to do better than most. So Outcast was at least a little diversified in tactics. In Academy everyone would use staff only b/c they could use kick. Back to why the "new" kick is limited. Second, its slower than molasses in 30 degree weather. By the time a guy using force speed comes by with absorb, FIRST you gotta stop him, ok you pull/push him, OH CRAP now I cant kick for another 2 seconds b/c i just pulled! The flag carrier promplty waves thanks for the force boost and continues his way. Academy has taken all combos and flushed them straight down the toilet. Everything requires a cool down, I rolled and tried to pull this guy down, but found that you cant do anything while your rolling. The only combos that are left in this game are holding down the attack button and rotating around and circles to make your guy spin with the lightsaber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boinga1 Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 PEOPLE! TRY TO ADAPT TO THE GAME BEFORE YOU SAY IT ALL SUCKS! The kick is limited. You know why? Because the JO one was over-used. When people run around with no weapon and just kick people instead of using a LIGHTSABER, that means that something is wrong. That means something has to be done. So, Raven removes over-spammed kick. I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE, although they could simply have removed damage from it. There are TONS of combos left. If you are talking about gripkick, pullkick, pullthrow, pullthrowkick, then yes, these combos are gone. But there are new moves for every stance, AS WELL AS TWO COMPLETELY NEW SABER STYLES. And why is kick so important in the first place? That's waht I don't get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{DHU}Screed Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Kick was a setup move or a stopper. In CTF I would kick an opponant down turn absorb on so he could not push me than heavy stance slash em and 1 hit kill. New saber moves are not combos. A combo is 2+ moves put together to devestate your opponant quickly. Jumping and swinging your saber is not a combo. Kata (although looks like a combo) is not one, its pressing 2 buttons at once and sitting back to watch the pretty colors. The only way for you people that keep posting things like, find some new tactics, to actually see what we are complaining about is to take two of the competition players and make a demo so you can all see what were talking about. Also to make a demo of a match in Jedi Outcast between the same two people. I guarantee you would all agree on what we are trying to say here. In competition play, what seperates the l33t's from the noobs is that ability to win in a single quick and devestating combo. If you cannot end the match in that single combo than your going to be standing there for a VERY LONG TIME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 /ignore fan boy rant mode on Ok back on topic, prime like screed said it is very limited. Trust me we have been trying to find ways to "exploit" or "spam" them to some level of effectiveness against skilled players but it is simply too limited and restrictive. Oh sure I can kick "Padawan" down all day and saber the hell out of him (as I have the many noobs I have played over the last two days), but when playing a guy like Screed or myself, we see it coming a mile away and it's simply too damn slow and restrictive to be of any use. Think of it like the "fists" you have when no points are put in saber skills. Sure if I practiced non stop I could do some really impressive mid air punches on people, but in terms of an over all tool that can be used to effectively progress game play how much of a use is it? 0 Remember guys, we are talking competition level player vs. competition level player problems here, not us vs. Joe Blow on public servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartaZx Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 it slows down the fc and/or knocks them down pits and/or to the ground. prime: kick wasnt the only thing used in s/o ctf. red style saber was the most used. kick was used to knock down and finish off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxVegetA Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 I played JO 1.02, duels, ffa and ctf. The proble here seems to be in CTF. First of all, in JO you couldnt choose too many force powers points (depending on the servers), so you could choose for example, absorb 2, pull full, saber atack full and jump full. You can do that in JA too, i guess. So that if they have absorb, speed and jump full, they wont have any saber defense or ofense, and they wont be able to pull push. Also CTF servers had a low regen time. So if the FC runs with speed and absorb (unusual in ctf 1.02), you have these choices: If you are behind him, or you run with speed too and try to cath him, well pulling or whatever. In this case you will probably fail. In JO you couldnt catch a guy with speed if you were behind him. Actually thats what speed does. But if you are in front of him, you have several options. You could stand in front of him and do any saber move, and if he jumps over you, well, that will cost him more force than what he has alredy consumed (using speed and absorb), in case you miss the atack and he jumps over you, and keeps runing, or you fall back or you just try to catch him bunny hoping till his speed runs of (once it does you can grip them cause they wont have pp, hehe), and you arent alone in your team, another player can do the same and i am completely sure that with a second jump he wil run out of force. Dont tell me you defend the flag in the exact flag place, lol, cause you arent able to kill the enemy before it caps or after. Thats the reason why only noobs used speed-absorb in JO. The good players buny hoped (you go faster in some levels), and stoped every once in a while to fight players pulling him or standing in front. I havent played 1.03 or any other, but i am sure its the same concept. The only problem you could complain about CTF in JA is that you have a fast regen time and a lot of points to select force powers. You all "competitive s/o ctf players", rofl, wanted the same strategies to play ctf as in JO. I guess now u suck, because its diferent, maybe the game isnt suposed to end 5/4 or 12/8, but 20/15 or who knows. By the way, i dont know diverse, i never played 1.03. That clan may be the best in 1.03 but just that. And supernub, please, please stf, YOU are the bigest insult to the game, your opinion in ANY topic is completely worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{DHU}Screed Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 [sarcasm] Fist fighting is fun! [/sarcasm] Ax? Doesnt that stand for almost =X= b/c you suxxored to much to get in their clan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxVegetA Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Originally posted by the weiner dog! and this AXvegeta guy, just ignore him, he's jus a loud mouth, no name random noob trolling to try and get a rise out of people. Excuse me sir but that must be you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 AXVegeta or whatever your in game name is, let's do this: You don't play Jedi Outcast 1.03. You don't play Jedi Outcast 1.04. You don't EVEN HAVE Jedi Academy. How about you shut the hell up when until you can actually contribute to what people are talking about by actually KNOWING what they are talking about. /edit do you play Jk2 1.04? Please, oh dear god please tell me you do. If you do I will make you this deal: 1v1 me, 10 rounds (a full map), no time limit. You win I leave these forums and never come back. I win, you stay out of this tread or any others we start about this topic. Deal? I'm serious. All you have done is flame and troll in here and do your best to turn this into a flame war, here is your chance to walk what you talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartaZx Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 ctf regen isnt slow its default and most good ctf servers use master level force so you get quite alot of force points so I dont see how it's unusual for fcs to use absorb + speed. if they didnt they would suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{DHU}Screed Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Off topic but what the hell? I was eating a pack of M&M's at work and I got a purple 1! Doesnt that mean I win something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxVegetA Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Originally posted by the weiner dog! AXVegeta or whatever your in game name is, let's do this: You don't play Jedi Outcast 1.03. You don't play Jedi Outcast 1.04. You don't EVEN HAVE Jedi Academy. How about you shut the hell up when until you can actually contribute to what people are talking about by actually KNOWING what they are talking about. /edit do you play Jk2 1.04? Please, oh dear god please tell me you do. If you do I will make you this deal: 1v1 me, 10 rounds (a full map), no time limit. You win I leave these forums and never come back. I win (a given) I get to post a demo (which I plan to record) of just how much of a loud mouth noob you are? Deal? Are you retard, blind or what? Read my f-ucking post, i just played 1.02, get it? We can make that deal in 1.02, ill be pleased. Knowing what you are all talking about? You are all just crying the hell out because you canot catch a FC, a whole thread to that. And i answered you in my last post. Using speed and absorb, and jumping, they will run out of force very very soon. But if you dont know how to kill him when they are out of force in front of you, well thats a shame. You must be the most stupid person in the whole game, in order to start a thread because you canot catch a flag carrier the way u used to do it in JO. You know OR, that was the best clan in ctf. Now they dont have any trouble now. Because smart people find solutions. Retards like you just cryed since the game was released that you couldnt catch a FC with absorb and speed (buny hop is elite, not that, whoever uses speed+absorb is a noob). Now stop crying the thread and play the f-ucking game to find a solution and if you cant , is just that you are even more stupid than i thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[fk]myth. Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Originally posted by the weiner dog! heh, yeah the sniper scope delay is a very big gripe from all of the twl gunners as well. it's another example of a nerf that was not needed but put it and screwed some thing up. OMG what about this 3 second delay for det packs? That is pathetic. In seige to take out the desert wall you need like 10. It's like... det pack... 1... 2... 3... det pack.... 1.. 2... 3... Eventually I end up killing myself of bordem and switching player type. First of all, in JO you couldnt choose too many force powers points (depending on the servers), so you could choose for example, absorb 2, pull full, saber atack full and jump full. You can do that in JA too, i guess. So that if they have absorb, speed and jump full, they wont have any saber defense or ofense, and they wont be able to pull push. Also CTF servers had a low regen time. You've GOT to be kidding. Did you just make that off the top of your head (you havent played since february). In S/O CTF Community competition level Force was set at Jedi Master. Meaning you could have (what I normally used) Jump 3, Push 3, Pull 3, Speed 3, Seeing 2, Absorb 3, Team Heal 3, Saber Attack 3, Saber defense 2, and Saber Throw 1. It's the same in JA (I think its -1 point though I can't get seeing level2). So, yes, they will have saber defense, and with saber attack lvl 3 it doesn't matter it won't to jack ****. What can you do with the old kick that you cannot with the new kick? Simple. Pull. That's the main reason kick was so useful. You can't pull the player into your kick with staff you have to assume he's going to jump into it. This issue isn't dependent on flipkick, is it? I mean, you have to catch the FC to kick him anyway, right? I don't see how kick solves this problem. Here's a comparison Jedi Outcast The flag carrier has the flag, he has Speed 3 and Absorb 3 on and an Energizer behind him. He is a little far in front of you. You throw on Speed 3 and chase after him. You strafe jump over pits and such because he can't (hence you can catch him) since if he does he gets pulled and falls in the cliff. So now you're dead behind him and the Energizer. You can hop over the energizer who doesn't have speed because he wasted his force energizing, then kick the FC off or knock him down/saber his ass, or you could knock the energizer down then speed up and knock the FC down and saber his ass. Problem solved. Jedi Academy The flag carrier has the flag, he has Speed 3 and Absorb 3 on and an Energizer behind him. He is a little far in front of you. You throw on Speed 3 and chase after him. You strafe jump over pits and such because he can't (hence you can catch him) since if he does he gets pulled and falls in the cliff. So now you're dead behind him and the Energizer. Now, the only thing you can do is try and saber him, which, won't work because saber damage is in the crap hole. So what do you do? You can't knock him over, no kick. You can't saber him, low damage. There is nothing you can do to kill him in JA unless you get lucky or he accidently spills pop on his keyboard and forgets to turn left. See the difference? See why kick is needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Side Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Not only do u have to catch up the fc but u also gotta deal with the capper turning around push the whole crow chasing him...wait that not all,people chasin the FC will also have to deal with escorter,guarder wutever u call em Chasing the fc isnt the hardest part,cuz the fc can do sum mistake like falling,gettin blocked by his teamate,et,etc....it killing the fc whiles hes at his base here an exemple:The FC(Flag carrier) got the flag,and hes at his base and hes whoring protect with the guarder energizing him(in case u didnt know protect work with force) Mind trick him and kata him?Sorry but capper will hear mind trick and activate seing and even if he didnt hear it,kata wont be strong enuff to kill him cuz he got protect on Drain him?sorry again,he got an energizer giving him force A a capper doesnt fight back hes just gonna run around avoiding evrything So how the hell are u supose to kill him? ...man i gotta work on my english grammar anyway u guys get my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 22, 2003 Author Share Posted September 22, 2003 Again vegeta, I *asked if you played 1.04. Ask is something people use when they are not sure. In this case I though you may have played it by now. But as I said and now stand corrected, you do not play 1.03, you do not play 1.04 and you DO NOT EVEN OWN JEDI ACADEMY so please leave. You have nothing at all to contribute to this thread because you have no idea at all about the things we are discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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