JA MP Blows...... Answer - Promod?

[Quiwan]

When promod came out, it was the blessing that JO needed. It was simple yet had tons of strategy. Why couldn’t the dev put something like that in JA, at least you would have a way to block. Please oh please devs create a more fulfilling saber combat. If you take a look at Promod’s simple chart http://www.oculis.org/promod/promod3_strategy.html you can see how simple saber combat could be. NO strategy / All random hits = $9.99 game.

[Kamikaze Gerbil]

ProMod was the best Mod that ever hit Jedi Knight Outcast in my humble opinion, sadly it never took off. The majority of Admins wanted flashy completly useless emotes that added no real substance to the game play on top of Admin commands that went beyond just Administration, to the point of being abusive.

 

Couple that with Artifex moved on (Rightly so...) The new caretakers of ProMod I belived merged it with another mod (FroceMod 2.0) and all but have let ProMod fade away.

 

ProMod is dead.

[Quiwan]

I know that promod is dead, but I like the rock/paper/scissors approach it took to saber fighting. I wonder why these DEVS, with all there knowledge (or lacking of) couldn’t implement something simple, like the great Artifex did. They keep coming out with patches, that never seem to work for what people want. The saber blocked to much, damage is to low….blah blah blah. The great thing about promod was that you had real control over those aspects. You want to block you back up…you want to break someone’s blocking you switch to heavy and come at them with a hay maker. But if you did that and the person saw the swing they could time it right to swing at you mid section and cleave you in half with one shot. Now that’s the way saber combat should be. Another thing that was nice is the mod was only about 750k, All that strategy in a small package. Now lets start banging on our pots and pan get something at least similar for this game. I know I will.

[The Count]

I actually like JA MP its alot better than Outcast (BTW yes I have it now )

[JarJarBinks]

Originally posted by Quiwan

You want to block you back up…you want to break someone’s blocking you switch to heavy and come at them with a hay maker. But if you did that and the person saw the swing they could time it right to swing at you mid section and cleave you in half with one shot. Now that’s the way saber combat should be

 

I agree, that's the way saber combat should be. JK saber combat is too random.

[Blamer]

Yes, ProMod was awesome. Unfortunately Raven seems to have taken everything that was good about it, then ran in the opposite direction

[razorace]

I'm going to have to disagree here. While the Promod system of saber combat was interesting, it was very lag dependant and wouldn't work for the double or dual sabers since they are designed for multiple attackers.

[Blamer]

Well, frankly...I don't give a toss about dual sabers or saberstaffs and lag was never a concern for me with promod.

[Quiwan]

Of course dual and staff saber wouldn’t work for promod. It wasn’t designed for it. I would like see the DEVS design a similar system to go in to JA. They already have the ground work (Promod); now all they need to do is modify and implement. (Sounds easier than is). As for lag, most FPS is lag dependent. So the best thing to do is locate a server with a good ping. I know the game has been out only for a day or two, but I’m very disappointed with the MP and feel a bit cheated out of the $50 I spent. Don’t get me wrong SP was wonderful, but after that the MP blows and that’s what keeps people coming back to play the game. At least me.

[Tarus]

For the record I feel cheated out of my 50 too....not sure if ill buy anymore products in the line. These guys just can't seem to get saber combat to the point where it feels like a real saber battle.

 

The original jedi knight's saber combat sucked. Outcast was a major improvement but still to sloppy. JA im not so sure about, seems worse then jedi outcast....its like they took a step backwards.

[the weiner dog!]

Well the thing is while I totally agree with the premise of pro mod (elimination of random factors) it really never took off imo because it was such a radical change to game play dynamics from base game play.

 

JA MP could be much much better with a few small tweaks in the right places but if you do a total 180 in game play it's going to be a tough sell.

 

Right now the only serious mod that is 100% focused on game play is =X= mod 2 and if I were you guys I would really consider supporting that mod.

 

The thing about =X= mod 2 that really has me sold is whatever changes are made (like putting kicks back in for all stances) can be turned off/on at the choice of the server admin.

 

This means you can basically decide what you want back in and what you want left alone.

 

 

http://x.fragism.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=12&sid=50d2faaea2783f55aa2275764234b587

[Quiwan]

For the inept players you could still have the same crappy game play that is now, and simply implement a system where you could select only to use advanced saber fighting (Promod’ish). Heck that wouldn’t be to hard because they can do it right now, by having guns only games or saber only games, what’s to stop advanced saber only games.

[Hatred01]

I didn't like JA MP when I first started playing it, but after giving it more time and learning to use it I like it a lot better than outcast.

[Prime]

Originally posted by Catalyst

I didn't like JA MP when I first started playing it, but after giving it more time and learning to use it I like it a lot better than outcast.

At the very least there isn't one move getting spammed. Yet

[Teknoman]

So far i love JA MP especially siege modes and FFA, but one thing is for sure...this game desperatly needs a few more dedicated servers and more Retail servers... WAYYY TOO MANY WAREZ SERVERS! I mean i cant even find a place to play with all the (internal) JAMP servers floating around. Bring us retail servers and dedicated ones at that:D

[Kurgan]

I am actually very pleased with JA. I didn't expect it to rewrite the book on saber combat, it was an improvement over JK2 and that's good enough for me.

 

Artifex made a mod based on his approach to how saber combat should be. He did a fine job, by all counts. Obviously the Dev team at Raven decided to go their own way with their own creation.

 

That's the beauty of editing.. if you don't like something, you can change it if you're dedicated enough, and if other people don't like it they don't have to play it, or can make their own.

 

What it comes down to for me, is that the saber combat in JA is just fine, and dueling is only 10% of the game experience anyway, so why should I whine about it?

 

I rather enjoy CTF and can't wait to play some Siege (I loved Assault in UT, now I can play it in the SW universe!).

 

With all the console cvars and secrets we're finding, the game just gets better and better.

 

Sorry to ruin the mood of the thread, but I just thought I'd share my opinion. ; )

[razorace]

What's this? A POSITIVE POST ABOUT JKA?! Is that POSSIBLE?

[WadeV1589]

Yes there are some of us left who actually are glad they even bothered to make a JA probably knowing the community would create hundreds (literally!) of threads about all the "bugs" (more commonly known as the things that have changed from JO)! I for one will not complain about it! I love JA and will enjoy modding/mapping for JA!

[KaiaSowapit]

Couple that with Artifex moved on (Rightly so...) The new caretakers of ProMod I belived merged it with another mod (FroceMod 2.0) and all but have let ProMod fade away.

 

The new "caretakers" of ProMod (if you insist on calling them that) are AOTC:TC. The other mod I presume you are referring to (ForceMod not FroceMod) is in absolutely NO WAY related to ProMod - it is NOT a merged version of anything, excluding perhaps JediMod (the original by Dest & not that other joker).

 

Not trying to pick a fight, just set the record straight.

 

As for new mods for JA, I think it's safe to expect them... though first we have to wait for Raven to release the SDK.

[Kurgan]

They key to improving the community is through EDUCATION.

 

Rather than filling people's heads with BS like "saberoff = peace" and "no laming!" instead teach them what cvars are and how to use them so that games are actually fun.

 

Show them that high damage sabers are good for non duel settings.

 

Encourage people to learn these commands, send them to my site (plug hehe) etc.

 

Since the community is just starting, the more people we can win over to our philosophy, the better.

 

A lot of people will be clueless, but if we work hard enough, we can influence people in a positive manner to implement the things we want.

 

Teach people that its better to lose gracefully and show "honor" by saying "gg" and not accusing people of cheating or laming when they get beat. Teach them that losing is not really losing if they learn from it and get better. Teach them that there is no shame in losing to a superior opponent, and that there is no honor in whining if we make stupid mistakes and let ourselves lose.

 

I could go on and on, but hopefully you get the idea. We can't win over everybody, but we can increase our circle every so slightly if we try.

 

If people can spread that "bowing is honor" nonesense so quickly, surely better habits can "catch on" this time.

[KaiaSowapit]

Kurgan, I agree with your sentiment. And personally I couldn't agree more with your opinion regarding "saberoff = peace" and "bowing is honor" rules.

 

(What I find most ironic is as many obsessed with "honor" seem equally as obsessed with Dark Jedi or Sith - what movies were they watching? Ya think Maul wouldn't wack ya if your saber was down?)

 

That said, in my experience we are in the minority. For better or worse that's just how it seems. But who are we to say that we are right and they are wrong? Everyone who legitimately purchased this game has as much right to play it as they see fit.

 

Yes I agree education is valuable and important. Perhaps even more so is finding like-minded players and servers that cater to our personal styles.

 

I host a server where sabers are lethal, guns are deadly and the only thing "lame" are whiney clients. If this appeals to you, feel welcome to join. (Will be converting to full-time JA Siege mode shortly.)

[Kamikaze Gerbil]

Originally posted by KaiaSowapit

The new "caretakers" of ProMod (if you insist on calling them that) are AOTC:TC. The other mod I presume you are referring to (ForceMod not FroceMod) is in absolutely NO WAY related to ProMod - it is NOT a merged version of anything, excluding perhaps JediMod (the original by Dest & not that other joker).

 

Not trying to pick a fight, just set the record straight.

 

As for new mods for JA, I think it's safe to expect them... though first we have to wait for Raven to release the SDK.

 

FroceMod was a typo my bad... I was indeed refering to ForceMod 2.0. Thanks for the correction on it. I have never played it just read the discriptions of the mod it had very simular things that ProMod did.

[Quiwan]

Cvars can only you take you so far in this build of the game, the basic ground work in MP saber is still to random. I like having control over the saber than relying on a server to make that choice for me. The Devs made the saber model the way they wanted to, I understand that, but the clumsiness of it doesn’t do the game justice. Don’t get me wrong I love the single player game and the saber fighting in that was really well done (IMO), but the fact is bots are stupid and battling people is the way to go. The basic model is there for them to look at (Promod), hell I could probably elaborate on it to include duel sabers and staff, but unfortunately I know very little about programming it. It just seems to me that Promod has proven to me and many others that this is the way it could be, and after playing that, going back to the old way is a complete joke, and a waste of money.

[JaledDur]

Originally posted by Prime

At the very least there isn't one move getting spammed. Yet

 

g_forceRegenTime != 200 on most servers -- tons of them have lowered it, and a lot of those have it set rediculously low. I'm betting this is so that the 'cool' saber moves can be used a lot. I'd say that would qualify as a move that gets spammed. This has the nasty sideaffect of making FF games really messed up.

 

And again, I'll take the opportunity to say that I think we need to get together and make a mod. 'We' as in the good coders, planners, and people that actually care about what happens to the community. One of the biggest problems we face is fragmentation. I understand different people have different agendas, but we can at least get everyone together in some focused way to determine if any of these agendas overlap.

 

Feel free to PM me if you have some idea on implimenting this.

[Doctor Shaft]

Long live Promod.

 

Perhaps one of THE BEST mods in existence, in my humble opinion.

 

Radical change from original? Yes.

 

Perhaps the guns for everyone option should not have been removed, and you'd have quite an interesting amount of support.

 

However, that was Promod Beta 2, and interestingly enough, the only thing changed there was saber combat and the force pull/push beaten by crouching. Other than, nothing. And yet, still no support from any major groups, etc.

 

Oh well, that's the nature of JK gaming I guess. Either way, for the small community we had, we definitely had some top contenders there (probably not nearly as good as the 'cream', but for that community, it was fun to idolize ). Anyway, Promod is indeed dead, and Artifex continues his new stages of life, whatever that may be.

 

If he EVER decided to come back and say, "hey, suddenly i'm playing games again and i'm making a Promod for JA", I would immediately turn to him, like the small peon I am, and beg to bask in goodness. Hehe, that's just some personal, sickly worship. Long live Promod for what is was worth. Great saber combat, good fun.