Solo Saber Nerfed Thread

[traj]

Originally posted by Kurgan

Sigh... this is a festive occasion, let's not ruin it by arguing who flamed who...

 

Awwww Kurgan, you took out my closing line. That was my favorite part. It really tied it all together nicely.

[Master William]

I use single saber, and I know every technique to kick the ass out of the dualsaber- and staffists.

 

I win 8/10 duels against them with single saber.

Simple as that, I don't need any patch.

 

After all, patches are made to fix bugs, not gameplay...

[AxVegetA]

I agree with master william.

I would prefer the next patch only fixes bugs and some minor changes in gameplay.

[lilJedi]

The Dual Sabers may seem powerful, but I've often knocked away one blade from a person (and had it done to me). The Saber Shield is perfectly counterable (knock the blades away or push them and it totally throws off the move

 

also dye you say you seem to get killed in one off hits. if you'll notice, both in JO and JA there are certain times when the two sabers connect that yours or the other fellows its thrown aside,,, or way off into the air from the force of the blow....and this leaves you open, imagine a guy with two sabers, the first making you parry in what i described above and then while open the second one comes in a split second later. i believe this could be responsible for your premature dying as I too have noticed this.

 

on a last note, i find it much easier to fight multiple of the most elite jedi in the game at once with them using staff or dual sabers, then i do when they use single sabers.

 

i also find it easy to just saber throw a staff saber wielder to death....they dont find it so easy to block when throwing at their feet.

[Spider AL]

Babywax:

 

Spider Al, this thread is quite obviously ABOUT patching, that does not mean it is going to happen right away. It is best to start compiling oppinions so that when they're READY to start working on a patch, they know what exactly what they(raven) want to do.

It's a pertinent point you make Baby, with one fatal flaw: The reason I don't want a premature patch is that suggestions made in the first week of the game's release will be at best, without serious foundation. So regardless of when they're listened to, such suggestions could be damaging. Suppose Raven reads the thread demanding that all gametypes have kick ported in three months from now? It'd still be as damaging then if they listened to it.

 

Since the moderators aren't going to censor you, I'm here to make sure Raven hears the other side of the story no matter when they read this premature gameplay analysis thread.

 

Raven, we say no to premature patching!

 

Dye:

 

By the frequency and length of your posts, you being stapled to your desk, I would assume

"Assume makes an ass of u and me". I always found that one funny, my idiot teachers used to spout it... ugh. Seriously however, don't make assumptions that result in underestimating people. The fact that I'm stapled to my desk means I have a lot of time to practice JA.

 

As to your sabre problems, I really haven't noticed too many of these one-hit-kills you're talking about. Not enough to call it common, or a trend... I have always avoided most of my opponents strikes though.

 

traj:

 

I should have know you were gonna use the "he started it" defense. I did know actually. By the way, you started the trajic thing. It's true. You started it.

The posts in which you started it are archived and available to all. You have flamed and insulted me. I have not retorted in kind. QED.

 

And if you really think you don't insult people's intelligence every chance you get (which is the same as calling them stupid by the way) then you my friend are blind.

I'm genuinely sorry if you feel as you the intelligence of you and your friends is in some way insulted by my systematic dismantling of your arguments. But that's hardly my responsibility.

 

Anyways, I don't really want to talk to you anymore so please don't respond.

Leaving so soon? As long as someone is directing posts AT me, they can expect a response.

 

For once we agree though, I wish Kurgan hadn't taken out that last, presumably particularly insulting line of your post. It would have finalised the contract between us to give me the moral high ground.

[g//anarki]

Spider, I understand your views of premature patching but without these flaws reported early, there will be no way of further testing if these are indeed serious.

 

Let them post whatever they really want. (even if they think that all the player models should be wearing pink socks, which would be dismissed without thought) If these gameplay issues that are reported prove to be false or minor, I doubt they will get patched.

[Rad Blackrose]

Originally posted by Master William

After all, patches are made to fix bugs, not gameplay...

 

Need I throw in the Blizzard arguement?

 

And yes, since I do consider their shoddy detection system a bug, I think a patch should be released at least addressing THAT. While all three sabers experience the problem, it is the single saber that is hurt the most by it.

 

EDIt: Kurgan, I already forsee what you are going to say, and no, I don't see the use of cvars making much of a difference either.

[Sam Fisher]

I've been playing JA MP with a single saber since I got it, and have kicked arse with it. The trick is to know your saber. That's it. And the Katas are very useful only if you know how to use them. I dunno why people are complaining about saber fighting being harder in JA than in JO

 

Weird.

[AxVegetA]

Originally posted by SamFisher

I dunno why people are complaining about saber fighting being harder in JA than in JO

 

Weird.

 

I do know, they were butt****ed.

[Kataarn]

Okay, my few cents here.

 

 

1) Dual Sabres is really hard to control. Drainspamming newbies might be a problem....except you can avoid that problem with Absorb (the 2nd best ability in SP) quite easily...once the newbie wastes his force power on drain / spec moves. Kill him.

 

2) Sabrestaff should have less offense, and a better defense. As it stands, it's extremely easy to control, does excellent damage, and can turn into a single sabre when necesarry. The defense on this thing is really good too.

 

3) DFA is the single most-spammed move in the history of JO / JA. Those that complain that DFA doesn't work anymore should simply find a different way to kill things. Being restricted to one move to kill people makes you predictable and easy to kill...especially now that you can MOVE out of the way of a DFA now (roll forward and attack rear sounds nice to me).

 

4) People seem to forget that Dual Sabres and Sabrestaff can also do cartwheels. This move isn't just restricted to singlesabres.

[the weiner dog!]

Originally posted by Deastin

Okay, my few cents here.

 

 

1) Dual Sabres is really hard to control. Drainspamming newbies might be a problem....except you can avoid that problem with Absorb (the 2nd best ability in SP) quite easily...once the newbie wastes his force power on drain / spec moves. Kill him.

 

2) Sabrestaff should have less offense, and a better defense. As it stands, it's extremely easy to control, does excellent damage, and can turn into a single sabre when necesarry. The defense on this thing is really good too.

 

3) DFA is the single most-spammed move in the history of JO / JA. Those that complain that DFA doesn't work anymore should simply find a different way to kill things. Being restricted to one move to kill people makes you predictable and easy to kill...especially now that you can MOVE out of the way of a DFA now (roll forward and attack rear sounds nice to me).

 

4) People seem to forget that Dual Sabres and Sabrestaff can also do cartwheels. This move isn't just restricted to singlesabres.

 

 

1-newbie is the key word. We are not talking about newbie’s, we are talking about players like ourselves who sit there and wait for absorb to turn off *then drain. Drain is far more potent than absorb and self heal, just as much if not more now than it was in the last game.

 

 

2-it turns into medium stance, useless in full force dueling. Light stance has the lunge and heavy has the stronger swings, but in an environment with drain medium stance is totally and utterly useless. Same deal in outcast, same deal now.

 

3-ok you tell me, what is the key to the puzzle I'm missing?

Kata's (any style or stance) don't compete with drain in full force dueling.

Roll + stab does not.

The lunge, yellow dfa do not.

 

What is there for me find?

Name it please, because I seriously am at a loss.

 

 

 

4-umm cartwheel? whoop dee friggen doo. I can meditate/emote now too. Not seeing how that is going to win me matches...

[Kataarn]

Meh, I posted that before I went on a server....I wish to change my view

 

After going on a no force, high regen server...I have formed this conclusion:

 

Dual Sabre Katas are spammed constanly....granted they are EXTREMELY easy to avoid, but it is kind of irritating.

 

I've noticed that Sabrestaff Katas aren't spammed that much....due to the fact they are pretty...well...inaccurate. Anyone smart enough to move out of the way does....and anyone that isn't...well....dies.

 

Cartwheels aren't spammed at all...yet. Only the people that really know what they're doing with sabrestaff use them...which doesn't really surprise me. They're pretty much useless with every other sabre configuration.

 

I'm gonna try switching back to my Light stance....

[the weiner dog!]

 

The Kata has it's use in a FFA where you have 16 guys flailing around randomly, but in 1v1 it's about as useful as the bow emotes.

 

Too risky (you are pretty much s.o.l if he side steps it, which most people do), too much of a cost (force pool) and simply not enough damage is caused even if it does land (it can be drained right back in 2 seconds).

 

In CTF it's useless because it (the Kata) locks you in place and when trying to hit a moving target that is flying by at 90 miles per hour (level 3 speed) having your feet stuck to the ground and not being able to turn your mouse to aim in his constantly changing direction makes it pretty pointless.

 

What you experienced just now is like what happened on fast regen rate servers in Jedi Outcast when lightning was enabled.

 

You have a dozen retards just running around holding down the lightning key and getting kills because of the insanely fast regen rate.

 

It should also be noted that people like the Kata/lightning noobs are not even remotely close to the level of skill that the people who are petitioning for kicks to be returned, possess.

 

So whatever your position on kicks may be, please do not think that we play as noobish as the fools on FFA pubs.

 

I mention this because people like to say "well I have no problem killing people, you just need to learn the new moves".

 

They honestly believe they know what they are talking about because they are only playing noobs, not people like us who know how to stay alive and draw matches out.

[AxVegetA]

(Off Topic)

 

This monday ill get JA <------------ HAPPY

[Mephisto]

I've been playing JO extensively since it came out but quit a few months ago as it got pretty boring. I can say that I am better then the average player with the saber. I have fought people who were better and believe me, you will know one when you meet one as compared to those who win with luck, seriously.

 

I've been playing JA since 2 days after it was released and I'm still playing it for pretty long hours. I must say that it has been a great experience. MP has changed quite a bit I must admit and strategies have changed quite a bit. Yes, I have learnt to adapt and I'm not one of those this-isn't-like-JO peeps.

 

I have fought in NF with dual, staff and single. From what I have noticed, the dual and staff sabers do more damage as compared to even the red stance of the single saber. IMHO, some parts of the game need tweaking. Lightning and kick bugs to start with. Blue Lunge is has been more damage since JO and also IMO, is overpowered. Why? I have dueled a guy, lunged him when he had 100/25 health and he died instantly. Dual and staff sabers do a whole lot of damage.

 

I am not complaining, merely giving my 2 cents. I have started to play defensive ever since, evading and rolling more than ever. Yellow stance is difficult to aim and hit w/o real skill when you are fighting dual/staff users, from what i notice. Red swings, if executed properly can slice through dual/staff user's defences half the time(which explain the reason I'm using them so extensively.)

 

Saber blocking system has been changed, I'm not sure for the better or worse. I have tried and tested it with a friend of mine. I was standing in front of him with single saber on, he stands in front of me also with the single saber. He does an overhead cut with blue, yellow and red stances. 3/4 of the time i got hit and took damage, though not much. In JO, if anybody remembers, the defender would block with his saber and falling-backwards-and-recover animation would occur most of the time. I'm not asking for a patch, just telling everyone what I have found out.

 

Yes, some might say I'm a noobie to this forums, some might say i'm a whiner, some might tell me to shutup, adapt, play the game more before you post. Whatever it is, all i'm doing is just giving my 2 cents. If anybody has any opposing views, I would be glad to hear them.

Also, please forgive my bad english.

[babywax]

Spider Al:

It's a pertinent point you make Baby, with one fatal flaw: The reason I don't want a premature patch is that suggestions made in the first week of the game's release will be at best, without serious foundation. So regardless of when they're listened to, such suggestions could be damaging. Suppose Raven reads the thread demanding that all gametypes have kick ported in three months from now? It'd still be as damaging then if they listened to it.

I think we have different oppinions of this thread, but frankly I hope raven doesn't read it, atleast not yet. I think it needs to go on and we need to use it to evolve our ideas, and THEN present it to Raven, you apparently think they will take these ideas as they are (which they might, I hope they don't, they haven't been thought out).

 

I loved kicking in JO, but it was very annoying to find someone who only used kick, so I think it's for the better to have it taken out.

 

Most of my complaints with this game are fairly small and about bugs, the reason I don't like the staff right click+left click is because it kills in like one hit in certain parts of the move. When I avoid moves, I usually like to go in to attack, taking a hit or two but dealing more damage than I take. My problem is that when I take that one hit, from a saber that is moving very fast, I die every time. Easily avoidable, but I would still like it changed (hopefully some agree with me).

 

I would like blocking toned up to about 50/50 chance, 25/75 just seems a little low to me. I really don't like having someone throw their saber at me and it hits more often than not even when I'm looking RIGHT at it and ready to block. Right now, the saber defense force power is a little on the weak side.

 

I have a few balance issues with dual sabers, but nothing REAL large, it's a lot of fun to be one of the minority using single saber (I really don't see many people using it, but that's probably because I favor FFAs).

Other than that I love this game.

[Spider AL]

Spider, I understand your views of premature patching but without these flaws reported early, there will be no way of further testing if these are indeed serious.

I empathise with your desire to get what you see as "flaws" fixed, Plazma. I do. And in a minimum of three months time, you'll see me on here complaining about imbalance with the best of them. Now is NOT the time though. The "flaws" will still be there in a few months, and me, you and the others will be able to see them for what they are more easily by that point. THEN we can discuss possible improvements.

 

Let them post whatever they really want. (even if they think that all the player models should be wearing pink socks, which would be dismissed without thought) If these gameplay issues that are reported prove to be false or minor, I doubt they will get patched.

Oh I hope you're right. I really do. But it doesn't usually work that way... with a big enough outcry, most game companies fold and release a pandering premature patch. Hopefully Raven's learned from its nasty 1.03 experience, and won't do any such thing.

 

But then again Plazma, that's why I'm here. I'm here to make sure Raven hears this very important line of text, to counter all the calls for an immediate patch: No premature patching, Raven. Remember 1.03.

 

 

I think we have different oppinions of this thread, but frankly I hope raven doesn't read it, atleast not yet. I think it needs to go on and we need to use it to evolve our ideas, and THEN present it to Raven, you apparently think they will take these ideas as they are (which they might, I hope they don't, they haven't been thought out).

Well Babywax, apart from the fact that I'm genuinely concerned that Raven MIGHT listen to all these demands for a premature patch (they did last time, they've hopefully learned not to listen to such whining but you never know) it seems as if our opinion isn't so different after all. We both hope that Raven don't read this thread at this time.

 

Yes, some might say I'm a noobie to this forums, some might say i'm a whiner, some might tell me to shutup, adapt, play the game more before you post. Whatever it is, all i'm doing is just giving my 2 cents. If anybody has any opposing views, I would be glad to hear them.

Mephisto, many people here who share your opinions could learn from that attitude. Take heed, wiener.

 

They honestly believe they know what they are talking about because they are only playing noobs, not people like us who know how to stay alive and draw matches out.

Wiener, can you make ANY assertions in your posts without resorting to claims that: "I AM BETTAR THAN JOO AH AHAH!!!1"? You're a JA newbie as much as anyone. Remember that. Maybe YOU just haven't been playing the right people, people who are adapting to the game as it is.

[Kataarn]

I only minded kicks when it was impossible to get up from them to dodge a DFA. Now that all you have to do is roll out of the way, I won't mind at all.

[dyehead]

Originally posted by Spider AL Mephisto, many people here who share your opinions could learn from that attitude. Take heed, wiener.

[/b]

 

Mephisto said he can have his own opinions that he wants others to see, so...

 

We want Raven to see our opinions too.

 

90% of the people are screaming for a patch, I think the 10% minority will be overruled.

[babywax]

If they release a patch now, it would be best for them to fix only hit detection, it seems SO off to me, I don't know why but like 1/6th of my attacks miss, and that's too many in my opinion.

[Spider AL]

Mephisto said he can have his own opinions that he wants others to see, so...

Mephisto's attitude in that post was superior because he makes it clear that he respects the opinions of those who disagree with him.

 

Others have no such respect. "stfu guns noob", "we r leet ctf0rz stfu", "u r smug and arrogant 4 disagreeing with us" etcetera. Many could learn.

 

We want Raven to see our opinions too.

And why is that? Do you want to imbalance and/or damage the game? That's what you're risking with these opinions formed barely a week after the game's release.

 

90% of the people are screaming for a patch, I think the 10% minority will be overruled.

Do you now. Ninety percent of "the people" screamed for 1.03. Then after it was foisted upon the unsuspecting player populace, people like me turned up complaining what a travesty 1.03 was, and WE were in the majority. Do you really, honestly think that ninety percent of JA players want a premature patch? Just because your NG CTF friends have all turned up WITH members of their clans to spout this point of view, that doesn't make you a majority. Actually throughout these threads some of you have been adamant that you're a "skilled minority" of sorts, uniquely endowed with the right to decide on gameplay changes. Heh heh.

 

Regardless, I'm not going to wait until after a useless, premature patch is released to point out the fatal mistakes you're making. And hopefully, Raven will have learned not to listen to people like yourself, after 1.03. Fingers crossed.

 

We say no premature patch, Raven!

 

Glad to see you're starting to admit your intentions in this thread though...

[Kettch]

In JA SP you could chain infinite attacks with medium and strong stance (single saber) by pressing attack at the end of every swing (when timed accurately). With this method you gain much more control over what you doing and gives the single saber another edge to compete against the other saber types. It gives you an opportunity to react to the opponent instead of planning your attacks (what set of the 5 chained attacks you want to do next).

Also, the damage for fast and medium stance should be slightly higher.

 

The recovery animations (the anims at the end of every swing) in SP are much more fluid than in MP.

 

I'd like to see these aspects implemented in MP.

[dyehead]

Nono Raven..

 

Spider Al says no to premature patching! The rest of us say PATCH AWAY!

 

what is this 'we' bullcrap?

[Mephisto]

It is through constructive criticism that Raven is able to know what needs to be tweaked or fix correct? From what I see here, most of them have given their opinion about saber issues but none of them mention patching here.

 

By saying opposing opinions, I meant if anyone had different ideas about what I have noticed about the new system. Yup and I forgot to mention more overpowered stuff although its not really related here. Roll stab can kill in one hit, if it doesn't it does a whole lot of damage. Sure its difficult to aim but should any move kill instantly with 100/100? Yes, it takes 25 force but with proper management a guy could be spamming stab the entire duel. Counters are possible if the guy misses way off and he's got his side towards you. Other then that, his saber would be pointing at you. Ydfa countering is not possible as it rarely ever hits and the damage is simply...low:p

 

And about chaining,

Single saber

Blue Stance -> Infinite(from manual if i remember correctly)/9(from what I have noticed)

Yellow -> 5

Red -> 3

Staff-> Infinite

Dual -> Infinite

 

If blue stance was infinite, Its range and power is nothing compared to the staff and dual sabers. From my experience, even playing defensive isn't gonna win all the time. Due to the different blocking system, a guy with staff/dual could be constantly chaining, attacking you from your side while you use a red swing(strongest and most able to hit through his defences) So while you're moving backwards or even rolling when you have finished your slash, he can run faster towards you while slashing all the way. See my point?

 

I'm not saying 100% of the time this happens but when you meet someone skilled or constantly chains like this, you're not gonna stand much of a chance unless you're lucky or if the guy screws up somewhere.

 

I think there are valid points made in this thread and I do hope that more people will contribute here and post what they have noticed.

 

Cheers.

[BloodRiot]

I've been playing for over 2 straight hours on a server that had no time limit and probably a score limit of 500. I used single saber all the way and If I may say so... I didn't care wether my opponents had single sabers, dual sabers or saberstaffs... in my experience... they all die the same to me.

 

Yellow single saber stance for fighting and the other 2 for specific uses... did wonder for me and all tricks proved useful in some situations and useless in others.

 

Do you guyz even try out the new cool stuff and how to use it or just assumed what worked in JO was gonna work the same in JA???