KICK poll

[Rockstar]

hey guys

 

could you please vote?

 

i've seen alot of quite heated debate on these forums with good arguements for and against having JO kicks in JA

 

i was wondering if there is a board majority on the preference.

 

please vote coz it only takes a sec

 

thanks alot if you did

[Luc Solar]

As it was in JO and with the weak JA sabers; no.

 

As an option(?) to CTF and FF duels, sure.

 

What I don't want to see is a kick that's in every situation a much more useful and deadly attack than saber swings. I'd like to see it used as a tool.

 

Don't know what to vote. None of the options = my opinion about the issue.

 

Perhaps a blockable kick? You know - a kick that won't hit if you have your guard up, but will knock you off your feet if you're in mid-swing / jumping / get kicked in the back etc. A kick that leaves you vulnerable while performing it..?

[Prime]

Originally posted by Luc Solar

As it was in JO and with the weak JA sabers; no.

 

As an option(?) to CTF and FF duels, sure.

 

What I don't want to see is a kick that's in every situation a much more useful and deadly attack than saber swings. I'd like to see it used as a tool.

 

Don't know what to vote. None of the options = my opinion about the issue.

 

Perhaps a blockable kick? You know - a kick that won't hit if you have your guard up, but will knock you off your feet if you're in mid-swing / jumping / get kicked in the back etc. A kick that leaves you vulnerable while performing it..?

Took the words right out of my mouth...

[TK-8252]

Originally posted by Luc Solar

Perhaps a blockable kick? You know - a kick that won't hit if you have your guard up, but will knock you off your feet if you're in mid-swing / jumping / get kicked in the back etc. A kick that leaves you vulnerable while performing it..?

I'd have to agree! The kick was good in JO, but it was kind of dumb to get kicked over and over and over and you can't do much about it. And then you get kicked to death faster than you could get sabered to death.

 

I think it would be nice if it was blockable, so that if you are on your guard you could do some kind of move to end up hurting the kicker. But if you are swinging your saber or using Force push/pull/grip/lightning and get kicked, you get kicked. But the damage done by a kick needs to be far less than in JO. The damage in JO done from kicks was insane.

[babywax]

I don't want kicks in, but if they were in, and they were blockable, then if they were blocked the blocker should grab the persons leg and knock the kicker to the ground. That would be cool.

[TK-8252]

Originally posted by babywax

I don't want kicks in, but if they were in, and they were blockable, then if they were blocked the blocker should grab the persons leg and knock the kicker to the ground. That would be cool.

That's what I was thinking, maybe something like the Kyle Boss toss around move in SP.

[FK | unnamed]

Third was to use push right before they jumped at you.

 

It was not to push them back (hence the right before, not after they jump), it was done the stun them.

 

Push had slightly longer stun animation duration than pull and you could easily shut a "kick whore" down if you watched and pushed right before he tried to execute said kick.

 

When stunned, you kick him and put yourself at no risk.

 

Repeat a few times, he's dead.

 

I preferred to use push+throw+kicks as opposed to pull+throw+kicks like most people did, for this very reason.

 

 

 

btw look at the poll results.

 

[SpartaZx]

sabers killed faster than kick in jo. a good saberist can shut down a 'kick whore' quite easily.

[cheeto101]

And as long as its not that stupid flip animation, make it a real, quick straight legged kick.

[Gabrobot]

Due to lag, there was no reliable way for a 56k player to counter kick. (I got pretty good at kicking in bot matches, but when I played against actually people, I couldn't kick much since there's about a second of delay time...I certainly couldn't do anything in the time where I saw someone was going to kick me, and the time the kick would reach me...even if the kick doesn't actually hit me, it'll still hit me because of the lag.)

[FurionStormrage]

Originally posted by FK | unnamed

btw look at the poll results.

 

 

The poll results only matter when

 

1) it's closed and the results are final (it's within two votes now -- 17/15 in favor of kick) and I don't think that's why you had the smiley in your post.

 

2) A significant representative random majority actually vote.

 

I'm not going to attack the validity or lack thereof to this particular poll but here's the problem with polls like this:

 

1) Let's say that this poll ends up overwhelmingly in favor of kicks. What's to say that a few in-favor-of-kicks people didn't start emailing all their pro-kick buddies to vote in favor of kicks.

 

2) Conversely, let's say that the this poll ends up overwhelmingly in favor of no kicks. What's to say that a few anti-kicks people didn't start emailing all their anti-kick buddies to vote in favor of no kicks?

[ChineseJedi]

I hace seen all these posts about kicks but have no idea what they are. lol

[Kurgan]

Well there is already a built in counter to kicks (if they were added). A downed player has the ability to "flip up" with a kick to the face of anybody too close to them.

 

They can also roll away or just get up quickly (if you hold the button down).

 

How this works is a staff user side kicks a person to the ground and then foolishly gets close (and doesn't pull off the ground stab quick enough) so they get double kicked in the face, now THEY are the ones on the ground!

 

So it wouldn't seem to be that unbalancing if it were added.

[Gabrobot]

The only thing I didn't like about the kick in JKII was that it did 20 damage...this may not seem like that much, but when you can't do much against a kick, there's not much you can do against a player who is constantly using kick, and it only takes five kicks until...

[cheeto101]

actually, i find the kicks for the staff way the hell to hard to use, i mean, whats the point of kickin someone when i can just slash them instead??? The slash is faster, and it does more damage. IMHO speeding the kick up a bit (and making it straigh legged, not some weak little bent kneed kick) would greatly improve it.

[FK | unnamed]

Originally posted by Kurgan

Well there is already a built in counter to kicks (if they were added). A downed player has the ability to "flip up" with a kick to the face of anybody too close to them.

 

They can also roll away or just get up quickly (if you hold the button down).

 

How this works is a staff user side kicks a person to the ground and then foolishly gets close (and doesn't pull off the ground stab quick enough) so they get double kicked in the face, now THEY are the ones on the ground!

 

So it wouldn't seem to be that unbalancing if it were added.

 

Yep.

 

Before you knocked a guy down he had two options, pop up/over the charging person or push and hold them back.

 

If brought back, he could do those plus: roll and/or cause damage with a spear kick (w/e it's called).

 

That makes it very balanced and notice how none of us (people who want kicks back) are asking these new options be taken out?

 

 

More options and moves = better possibilities for creation of combos and better game play.

[Gabrobot]

Raven must have taken kicks completely out for a good reason...kicks are still in SP if you turn on a cheat, but Raven has taken kicks completely out of MP. Since Raven was the one who developed the game, I would think they'd be the best judges of the gameplay.

[FK | unnamed]

Originally posted by Gabrobot

Raven must have taken kicks completely out for a good reason...kicks are still in SP if you turn on a cheat, but Raven has taken kicks completely out of MP. Since Raven was the one who developed the game, I would think they'd be the best judges of the gameplay.

 

I could massacre any Raven employee/developer in Jedi Outcast or Academy.

 

My point?

 

People who play it know much more about game play than the people who make it.

 

Universal law in any game ^.

 

 

Hence the reason why "after moths of rigorous play testing" they still miss bugs it takes us 2-3 minutes to find after we install the game...

[Gabrobot]

Originally posted by FK | unnamed

I could massacre any Raven employee/developer in Jedi Outcast or Academy.

 

My point?

 

People who play it know much more about game play than the people who make it.

 

Universal law in any game ^.

 

 

Hence the reason why "after moths of rigorous play testing" they still miss bugs it takes us 2-3 minutes to find after we install the game...

 

Hmmm...obviously you don't know about game testing...I've gotten very good at JKII SP just because I have to test my level so much. I'm sure there must be at least two or three Raven developers who are at least as good as you (and most likely better, since they know what they put in the game).

[Blankie]

"Since Raven was the one who developed the game, I would think they'd be the best judges of the gameplay."

 

Best judges in terms of balance? Almost never the case. The developers aren't the ones entering leagues/tourneys and "abusing" anything to win. MANY things a developer adds into a game end up playing out differently than they imagined.

 

Do you seriously think Raven thought people would 'assfight'? Or 'kick spam'? Or use the light lunge as a means to 'float'?

 

Developers almost always play the game the way they expect it to be played, which isn't the way alot of must win players will play... thus the reason these 'abuses' slip by them. The best developers will be able to sort out the 'abuses' from the 'features' (think starcraft muta-bug vrs "extractor" trick... abuse vrs feature).

 

The vast majority of competetive communities will destroy the developers of the game that made it. Check out the warcraft/starcraft series, or quake, or most any competetive halflife mod. Developers aren't notorious for their hand/eye skills or reflexes... competetive gamers are.

 

Blank

[FurionStormrage]

Originally posted by Blankie

The vast majority of competetive communities will destroy the developers of the game that made it. Check out the warcraft/starcraft series, or quake, or most any competetive halflife mod. Developers aren't notorious for their hand/eye skills or reflexes... competetive gamers are.

 

Blank

 

That's because the developers are too busy developing the next game that lame ass whiners are going to complain about.

[Blankie]

"That's because the developers are too busy developing the next game that lame ass whiners are going to complain about."

 

Alot of skill that's required in FPS games is born with you... as cheesy as that sounds. Some people just have better reflexes, hand-eye coordination, etc.

 

Every game that ends up being popular is whined about. Being one of the anti-whiners doesn't make you any better than the regular old whiners. In the end, your still whining about something with the rest of us:)

 

Blank

[FK | unnamed]

Originally posted by FurionStormrage

That's because the developers are too busy developing the next game that lame ass whiners are going to complain about.

 

Don’t you also mean buy?

 

 

Look guy, you admitted you have very little knowledge of in-depth game play mechanics and have very little skill when it comes to multi player, please don't slap labels on people you don't even know.

 

I know it makes many of you feel important to “get noticed" so you simply follow the crowd and offer opinions and flames about a subject you have little actual knowledge of.

 

And as many of you have stated on many occasions, you have little knowledge of this game type, I have to ask how you can even begin to comprehend where we are basing our complaints from.

 

No one is "owning us".

 

We can still annihilate the "average Joe" players like yourself with ease.

 

Our problem is based in our game type and with the (rather large) community of people who play it.

 

 

No one is "whining".

 

We had entire game type (full force saber only, be it CTF, duel, teamffa, etc.) screwed all to hell. You don't understand where we are coming from, because as you have all put it, you don't play said game type and have little or no knowledge of it.

 

Now to fix this problem we either need a patch or the SDK released (unless it came out in the last day or so, I have not been around) so we can mod all of the nerfs out.

 

Either way, it's a simple game play request.

 

This is exactly the same type of feedback devs get when they beta test.

 

When games like RTCW and MoHAA were beta tested many “dude this sucks please do something about it” comments were made by the players and the devs altered game play accordingly.

 

Now since (for “legal reasons”) JA could not be beta tested, of course you are going to get these comments post release.

 

When a new version of any game (be it quake 3, counter-strike etc.) is released that seriously alters game play, if the negative feedback is heavy from the player base, the devs listen and they adjust accordingly.

 

Reason for this is the devs want people playing and buying their games.

 

 

 

 

So again, I am going to respectfully ask those who can not contribute anything other than trite and cliché catch phrases, or ignorant uninformed flames to simply not post in these discussions.

 

 

If you want to flame and make generic statements like "it's a new game give it time" by all means please look at the post I made a few hours back detailing the minor differences between this game and it's predecessor and offer any details I missed.

 

But simply do not make unsupported (by fact) and generic statements you can not back up or do not tell a person they are wrong if you can not point out the erroneous statements they made when they *did take the time to lay out a detailed description of their side of the argument.

[Blankie]

"So again, I am going to respectfully ask those who can not contribute anything other than trite and cliché catch phrases, or ignorant uninformed flames to simply not post in these discussions."

 

I think your problem is the way you come off to people is offensive to them. Telling people they suck, however worded, is never taken lightly Instead of trying to get people who are uninformed not to post (since they will regardless), why not try not responding to them instead?

 

And to repeat myself... I'm fairly certain raven has heard your complaint(s). Repeatedly bringing up this topic is just pointless at this pont. They've heard all the pro/anti arguements by now.

 

For the record, I do agree with you But there's really nothing more you, or this community, can do.

 

Blank

[FK | unnamed]

I really do not try to come off as arrogant, both here and in game.

 

I'm one of the few "elite" (and I do hate those terms but I have no other way to describe it on the tip of my tongue) who is "newbie friendly".

 

I have always stopped and dropped everything I am doing in a server when a player says something like "wow how did you do that?"

 

Hell, I can’t even count the # of matches I’ve “lost” because I felt sorry for the new guy in the server everyone else was ***ing so I gave him a few “believable looking” wins off me so he would not get frustrated and leave.

 

 

I could be a total ass and run around telling people they suck and generally making life miserable for people but I choose not to.

 

The only time I remind people of things like their skill level or lack of knowledge on a topic is when they constantly try to tell me something absurd or get condescending with me.

 

I have a temper and lack of patience when dealing with people who run off at the mouth, sue me.

 

 

But anyways, I don't think it's pointless in "letting this go" until we see a patch or the tools the mod makers need to fix the issues with full force saber only.

 

I could be wrong but have the tools been released?

 

I have been gone for a few days so if they have, then cool but if not, we need to keep bugging them until they are released.