BSSiphilus Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Anyone out there agree there needs to be a saber damage patch. The saber damage seems to be rather random right now, I hve been killed from 100/100 by a single yellow hitn and by walking over a lost saber just as someone retrieved it, once again from 100/100. Someone needs to make a patch to use the saber damage from jk2, like yellow hits usually do around 30 damage, and patch up that retarded two-handed saber dfa thing that all the newbs spam back and forth across the map that kills anything it touches instantly. It looks cool and it is good for evasion but the amount of damage it does is kinda outta whack, and seems like it should be lowered. Anyone else agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kataarn Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 You mean cartwheels? Those are easy to avoid if you know what you're doing. If you don't, well, don't complain about 'em. However, I do think the stance damage should be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChineseJedi Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 i think all sabers should have increased damage. 1 duel can take like 10 min. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Guys, use the g_saberdamagescale command on your servers. 1 is the default. That's really weak and best for long duels. Up it to 2 is best for other game modes, or 3 if you're sadistic. ; ) Lower it if you want duels to last even longer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChineseJedi Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 lol.... sadists use 3 huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sokar Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I don't agree that a patch should be made to make your life easier. I believe you should learn how to counter playing the game the way it is. OMG! They're using a move that can kill me quick when I suck so they must be a noob! Come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSSiphilus Posted October 1, 2003 Author Share Posted October 1, 2003 Sokar dont be stupid. When you hit someone with a red DFA it does 40 damage, when you die from some random saber retrieval from full health? come on now, if you cant admit thats rediculous you have to smoke more crack then bling-bling the crack expert from "bumfights". I just think that someone should either explain how damage works or even it out so its not so random. When a hard hit like a red dfa does 40 and some random tap on the chest slays outright, there has to be something wrong. Maybe you're right about not changing it to the jk2 damage table but there's still more wrong with the gameplay then that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSSiphilus Posted October 1, 2003 Author Share Posted October 1, 2003 Also we were thinking about editing on our server some things to make it more believable, but unless the standard changes for every server, that wont do much good for when we go to another server and we're used to our way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by BSSiphilus Sokar dont be stupid. When you hit someone with a red DFA it does 40 damage, when you die from some random saber retrieval from full health? come on now, if you cant admit thats rediculous you have to smoke more crack then bling-bling the crack expert from "bumfights". I just think that someone should either explain how damage works or even it out so its not so random. When a hard hit like a red dfa does 40 and some random tap on the chest slays outright, there has to be something wrong. Maybe you're right about not changing it to the jk2 damage table but there's still more wrong with the gameplay then that. That's some of the bigget amount of rubbish, i've heard all day... Yellow isn't very strong and also dfa does 5-80. Please test what ya say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverhoodian Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I think what they need is a damage recognization patch. One time I roll-stabbed directly into someone, and I DIDN'T EVEN TAKE OFF 1 HP! Another time I swung my saber and scored a hit without the saber even brushing my opponent. I don't care as much about saber damage, I just want the sabers to cause damage when they touch and no damage if they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Just change your settings and quit whining, it's there in the game right now, you don't need a patch. A patch that changes gameplay will just make half the people angry again, you know this will happen. I run my server with 2 or 3 on all the time. I find it works quite nicely. The DFA doesn't always kill in one hit? Cry me a river... this isn't JK2 1.05. Everybody tweaks their server settings, so I don't see the problem. Once people learn that they can adjust the saber damage, their servers will reflect this, so spread the word. Tell the admins they can do it. Also, and people who joined my server today can attest to this, unless there is 0 ping, there will always be lag, which can make hits seem to kill instantly or do barely any damage or miss completely. It's just something you have to live with in online gaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJedi Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Lazy Lazy people, just do what Kurgan said and shut the **** up, lol. No offence intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sokar Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by BSSiphilus Also we were thinking about editing on our server some things to make it more believable, but unless the standard changes for every server, that wont do much good for when we go to another server and we're used to our way. The likelyhood of you venturing off your server is remote. The likelyhood of anyone letting you stick around if you actually did leave is even more remote. So I wouldn't worry about it to much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSSiphilus Posted October 1, 2003 Author Share Posted October 1, 2003 k sokar, please keep your mouth shut unless you have something mature to say. I made a serious thread and you're being a tool. Anyways kurgan, I did red DFA someone and it did only 40, I'm not saying it should kill someone in 1 hit. There just seems to be alot of inconsistency, I will once more repeat the example: me 100/100 saber on ground, me on saber, guy retrieves saber, I die instantly. Stuff like that. I figured out the 1 hit yellow kills, its when you parry and you manage to get your parry swing to hit your opponent, it kills them instantly almost everytime it seems. Theres also other stuff I've found like swinging a saber back and forth on yellow on my buddy standing still saber down and miss 4 times in a row with my saber passing right through him. You can tell me you dont see any of these random events in your server korgan. Or you just dont have alot action going on in it, which doesnt sound like the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverhoodian Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Well, Kurgan, I didn't take the lag into account, but it seemed wierd at the time. I suppose getting used to all the new saber types and moves have to be taken into account as well. It does use a heavily modified JO code, after all. Guess it was just a knee-jerk reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Blackrose Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan Also, and people who joined my server today can attest to this, unless there is 0 ping, there will always be lag, which can make hits seem to kill instantly or do barely any damage or miss completely. It's just something you have to live with in online gaming. Did I mention there's lag on his server? Anyways, after playing with saberdamagescale 3, I can definetly say that a number from 1.5-2 will probably bring the best for competitive, standard play, while the fanbois should stick to saberdamagescale 1. Also, be sure to turn off sabertracesaberfirst if you do not want to have as much blocking. We're still looking into the ghoul hit detection... The lag didn't help much. I might ask the guys at IDS for help. EDIT: None the less, it still pisses me off that we have to go to this extent in order to make saber combat viable. You would think they would have learned from 1.03/1.04. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DividedByZero Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 The argument that damage and hit detection is off is impossible to back up. I use a single saber, I wouldn't feel so damn pissed off about random kills if my attacks did damage on par with a saber staff. The saber staff is yellow style if you look at the picture, yet one hit can do well over 100 damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan The DFA doesn't always kill in one hit? Cry me a river... this isn't JK2 1.05. won't cry about it but can you honestly see any good reason to use a move that costs you 25 force points when the ones that do not cost any force do the same if not more damage? I know saber damage scales can be altered and I do believe this can solve a lot (not all) of problems, but lets not bury our heads in the sand and pretend this is a well thought out and balanced damage/ratio system we have in front of us. Let's see, I can waste all of my force to do these high-risk, low damage specials... or I can just use a saber staff and go "RAAAGGGGGGHHH" and hold down mouse1 for more productive results... Choices, choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I have to agree that the damage seems far too random. I've had instances where I get impaled on someones saber and take 10 damage and others where I get nicked in the toe by a fast stance standard swing and die instantly. For those of you thinking its all LAG LAG LAG, think again. This was on a home LAN with extremely low ping(below 20 or so most of the time). Many of the special moves need tweaking too. Something that you start up and can't move and pray that someone throws themselves at your saber isn't very useful. Even the force powers need tweaking, push and pull seem useless at the moment. Anyways, I think that saber combat should involve little to no randomness, which is definitely NOT the way it is now. Oh, and hows this for random combat: My friend and I fight, me with a saber, he with his fists. We rush each other and both start swinging. We each connect on every hit but I(with the saber) die before he(with his bare hands). *Braces for the inevitable flames from those who don't agree* Oh, and just as an afterthought, all of you who like to reply with "n00b" and "go cry" or whatever: Fallacy of argument against the man (argumentum ad hominem) The Latin means "argument to the man." (a) Arguing against a person's views by attacking them instead of their argument. Think about that before you post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSSiphilus Posted October 1, 2003 Author Share Posted October 1, 2003 Dividedbyzero, if you like the single still, I do too, and you have trouble beating staffs try this. A few people in BS are starting to kick ass with the staff. Its parry rate is too high for yellow and blue, well you know blue. Anyways the staff seems to have some pretty short range so stay back and use the long wide left hand red swings then roll ow jump away after. Sure the duel could take forever but if you can be patient they might get fed up and come straight in so you can line them up for a couple good overhand smashes! Since I started doing this I noticed I was doing alot better against them. Oh and alot of the times when they manage to parry your swings some damage from the red still leaks through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSSiphilus Posted October 1, 2003 Author Share Posted October 1, 2003 Oh and if yer not in a duel you could just be a jerk, stay well away and keep throwing your saber, force pull you opponent right before it gets there and they wont be able to block it. That annoys people tho, oh and peregrin, that nick on your toe mighta been a parry swing that hit you. Read my earlier posts in this thread about those lovely things, but then again it coulda been completely random too, I have lots of those stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 won't cry about it but can you honestly see any good reason to use a move that costs you 25 force points when the ones that do not cost any force do the same if not more damage? Because it's unblockable? I know saber damage scales can be altered and I do believe this can solve a lot (not all) of problems, but lets not bury our heads in the sand and pretend this is a well thought out and balanced damage/ratio system we have in front of us. If sabers kill in one hit, people will complain that they're "cheap." If they don't, people will complain that duels aren't long enough, hence why Raven made the damage adjustable. Let's see, I can waste all of my force to do these high-risk, low damage specials... or I can just use a saber staff and go "RAAAGGGGGGHHH" and hold down mouse1 for more productive results... What about all the people saying "I swing and swing with the staff but I hit nothing all day long"? Exactly. ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DividedByZero Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 It's unblockable? Who gives a crap, it never hits, and even if it does it doesn't do nearly as much damage as it should. If you ramp up the damage of an already off scale, it will just make the one hit random kills even more random. That occasional staff hit that does 99 damage instead of 200 to you would be an insta kill. I consider myself a very skilled player from JO, and I can own people in FFA with my single, but in a duel with a staff user, I get owned. I shouldn't have to use that strategy that siph mentioned. I dont wanna fight like a pansy, I wanna go toe to toe with these maul wannabes. Hell I got so frustrated I grabbed myself a staff (which I've not used much at all, a few games) and all I did was run forward, swinging right and left over and over at the other players, I owned. I slaughtered. It took no skill on my part. I used to specials. You cannot make the case that the damage is out of whack. It doesn't do any good to adjust damage globaly because you cant solve all the specific problems by adjusting all the damage at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJedi Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I don't understand what your problem is man. Staff users aren't hard to take out as long as you don't go rushing in holding in mouse button 1 all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Honestly, now that you've all had your say that you want a premature patch to cater to your whims, you should really all go and try out Kurgan's suggestion. Try it, you might like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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