Master_Keralys Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Okay, did it strike anyone else as extremely odd that wherever you went there were no civilians? There were only lots of bad guys. Don't get me wrong, I like killing bad guys. But if you're on Coruscant, or riding a train through Corellia, or working your way around Ord Mantell, there should be civilians around. There should be people you have to protect from the depradations of evil ones. Think back to the way it was in JK. Sure, there weren't a lot of them, but they were there. And it added a lot of depth. Sadly, the series has followed most other FPS's and gone to the kill everything in sight mode (except when other Jedi are around). It doesn't feel right for the SW universe. That's what made SW great, it felt lived in. Now, this game rocks, but little things like that would really enhance the feel of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master William Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 civilians = npcs, more npcs = lag = whiners = angry threads and emails = irritating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blamer Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Well, that wasn't the attitude of the JK1 team back when a Voodoo2 was top of the line...and they just so happened to make one of the best FPS games ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinny Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 what about the jawas, some droids and that dude uh forgot his name oh... kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Wookiee Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 *MILD SPOILER* There was the chiss Bartender in the Rancor level, the non mutant one the one where you saved the prisoners from the hutt. That was it though.....and I killed him anyway....he reminded me too much of some other chiss bartender.....yea... D_P! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Limitations of the engine... JK1 wasn't as graphically powerful as Q3, so it had a lot less work to do, and could display more npc's... and when you think about it, it still didn't have a lot. For now if you want more "realistic locales" in the Star Wars universe your best bet is a game like SWG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drivian Taluus Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 SWG? No Jedi (yet), imbalanced classes, and BUGS? I'll stay away until it becomes worth $14.99 a month, thankyewverymuch. No offense, but the press has been less than kind to it, and it'll be awhile before it gets good (like most MMORPG's). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 SWG? No Jedi (yet), imbalanced classes, and BUGS? I'll stay away until it becomes worth $14.99 a month, thankyewverymuch. No offense, but the press has been less than kind to it, and it'll be awhile before it gets good (like most MMORPG's). My point is, its RPG potential is far greater than JA will ever be, and it has the more realistic environments and "crowds" than you will ever see in JA. Thousands of players interacting in a persistant online world vs. 16 players in a 'world' (more like a house or a small room) where most objects can't be interacted with and you have a tiny tiny number of npc's (if any). It's like the difference between two kids playing on a jungle gym, vs. Disney World. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan My point is, its RPG potential is far greater than JA will ever be, and it has the more realistic environments and "crowds" than you will ever see in JA. I don't think it has anything to do with RPG potential, personally. I too missed more neutral NPCs in the game. It's not that I wanted to go around talking to any of them - but they help to set the scene to make an environment more 'believable', while at the same time offering opportunities for you to either protect or kill them depending on your disposition. The way that NPCs factored into the 'moral scale' in Jedi Knight, and thereby affected your path through the Force (Light or Dark side), was simply inspired, and I would personally welcome it's return for any further games in this series. And the simple fact is that it was possible to include NPCs in JA. The Sandcrawler level is a prime example of this. On that map you had small groups of Jawas (in threes), who were being accosted by Sand people. Now - the second time I played through that level, I used Mind Trick on the Sand people - and by the time I reached the big wall (where it says you can't go that way), I pretty much had an army of them on my tail - and I could see them attacking all the Jawas I had passed along the way. Needless to say - there were a lot of Sand people and Jawas on screen at the same time, and I didn't experience any slow down on my system - or if I did, it was hardly noticeable. So in my view, it would have been possible to include more NPCs in more of the levels where they were sorely needed, like the 'tram' and Coruscant. Apart from the Sandcrawler level, where I could protect the Jawas from attack - I didn't feel much like a Light-side Jedi for most of the game. When Luke tells you that you are going to planet X and you can practice your 'diplomatic' skills - and then just kill everything in sight, there's something wrong somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediLurker Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 I agree more NPCs, while a small thing in the end, would have made the game a great deal better. Especially, as Stormhammer pointed out, if they affected your dark\light status. Having one single event in an entire game decide something as huge as that is rather lame in my opinion. Oh well...not long until KOTOR and Deus Ex 2. My copy of JA will probably start collecting dust right about then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceButler14 Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 I really miss the JK1 npc's too. And the bartender didn't even say anything. The jawas and droids squeaked a little I guess........ Something I've always wondered. You go through all these imperial outposts or whever it happens to be and you kill all the people in wonderful fps fashion. What do the droids do? Lord of the Flies: Droid Edition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Originally posted by SpaceButler13 What do the droids do? Lord of the Flies: Droid Edition? ROFLMAO! :haha: That is so funny. You just made my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro The Hutt Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Originally posted by Darth_Pnut *MILD SPOILER* There was the chiss Bartender in the Rancor level, the non mutant one the one where you saved the prisoners from the hutt. That was it though.....and I killed him anyway....he reminded me too much of some other chiss bartender.....yea... D_P! I think it's the same one XD he decided to relocate after his run in with Kyle and since Reelo died he had no one to take care of his.... garbages. So why not relocate XD Originally posted by Stormhammer When Luke tells you that you are going to planet X and you can practice your 'diplomatic' skills - and then just kill everything in sight, there's something wrong somewhere. "You call this a diplomatic solution?" "No I call it agressive negotiations." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted October 15, 2003 Author Share Posted October 15, 2003 It is ironic that being a Jedi means killing everything in sight. This game seems to have gone the way of Quake and Doom. Unfortunately. I don't think it would have been that difficult on places like Coruscant. After all there were all sorts of Jedi on Korriban, fighting with all sorts of Reborn. Like, six of each at once at a couple points. If the computer can handle that, which is probably the most graphically intense part of the game, then it ought to be able to handle a few more NPC's where they'd make a big difference. I too miss the days of JK1 and a true choice between light and dark. One decision, not affected in the least by your choice of force powers, seems somewhat strange to me as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted October 23, 2003 Author Share Posted October 23, 2003 Here's a thought: the modding ocmmunity could create mods with civilians. It shouldn't be that hard to program in more neutral npc's. Maybe in the next game we'll get to protect people as Jedi really would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babywax Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 It WOULD be nice to have the option to go diplomatic on some missions, with NPCs and crud, although I would most likely slice and dice, it's more fun when you know there's the option. It would also be nice to be rated on how many people you killed when you didn't exactly have to kill them. Wouldn't be hard to program either, I don't think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Janson Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 I don't buy that "engine limitation" business. I just don't see why they couldn't add in a few civilian NPCs. Other than Jawas and droids of course. Diplomacy would have been refreshing in this game. I know it's not supposed to compete with KOTOR (two entirely different games), but being a Jedi student, Jedi don't always resort to mass decapatations. Oh well. Oh, and for the record, SWG is great. Yes it has bugs, but you guys act as if no other MMORPG has had any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 (im a mapper ) It couldnt have been the system resources. You know why? The way it works is, there are triggers all around the level, before you walk into a room, you pass by a trigger, which is connected to a (some) NPC(s) When you walk through the trigger (it is as big as the room, so there is no way you can walk around it, unless you use noclip thats why your advised not use noclip, reasons for that include, no npcs will spawn, because you pass through the trigger, and cutscenes will screw up, because the npc may or may not spawn.) Anyways, back on the subject, you pass through the trigger which makes the npc(s) spawn. So before you pass by, the NPC doesnt exist, so it isnt drawn! No lag at all. After you pass by its drawn, once its dead it disapears so that it will free up video memory. Now then, my idea is simple. Say your in a city, before you walk into a room or building, you hit the trigger that spawns a couple of NPCs 1 or 2 civilians, and maybe a dark jedi attacking them. When you walk in, i script them running away, into other room etc, and the dark jedi does whatever he wants to do... so you go in and kill the jedi. When your done, and leave the room, you walk out, and then as you walk further into the level, i tell the game to remove the civilians (if you killed them it doesnt matter) so once they are removed your vid. card gets some memory back (not that it will get that much, depending on the number of NPCs) Its not that the game cant handle it, it just has to be done in the proper way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giddamon Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Does ayone remember Drazen Island mod for JK1? That was a good civilian interaction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapiDiot~~ Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Originally posted by Master_Keralys I don't think it would have been that difficult on places like Coruscant. After all there were all sorts of Jedi on Korriban, fighting with all sorts of Reborn. Like, six of each at once at a couple points. If the computer can handle that, which is probably the most graphically intense part of the game, then it ought to be able to handle a few more NPC's where they'd make a big difference. I play JA with a 32meg TNT2, and the korriban map had no lag at all even with all the jedi running around (but only around 40fps...fast considering how old tat card is)(at 800x600 tho ) (but some parts the coruscant tram level had dropped to around 10fps......oi~) so as long as the #of npcs are not tat much....it doesnt hit performance.... yea and i agree about having only 1 event determine light/dark we should be able to kill rosh more than once! jk~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remirol Nacnud Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Well, in a lot of levels you're supposed to be in a 'scummy' area, so most of the civilians ARE bad guys. Obviously any random guy on the street in places like Nar Shadar or tatooine is supposed to say "hey look! I fight! I must join in! Oh look, that guy can't be shot at because he's using a light sabre! Oh look, that guy just got cut in half!"*runs in to the fight* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pnut_Man Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 There's always player-map sp levels in the future Just look at Commenor, it MAY have some civilian treats in the further installments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 Are you hinting at something there, Pnut_Master? Lag couldn't be an issue; I think it was probably just more than they wanted to deal with as far as scritpting. However, I feel that having other people around to deal with would have incredibly enhanced the feel of the game. I mean, how fun was it to go evil and kill all the civilians back in JK1? And it really meant something then. It also adds a lot of authenticity to the feel of a game when you have things like that. AFter all, being a Jedi is about protecting people. Killing should be a last resort, not the first thing that comes to mind. Now, since this is a shooter game, that's going to be different, but the aforementioned example with a dark Jedi going after civilians would be awesome - join him, or kill him to save the people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Blackrose Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 It is ironic that being a Jedi means killing everything in sight. This game seems to have gone the way of Quake and Doom. Unfortunately. God forbid the first game in the entire Dark Forces series had you go around killing everyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 Ah, it finally comes up. I've been waitng for this . There's a big difference between Dark Forces - where you're a merc and all you should really care about is getting paid - and Jedi Knight, JK2, and JA, where you should care about saving other people. That's the point of being a Jedi, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.