darthfergie Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Mkay...doubtless many of you have been ticked because the opposite faction placed a harvester on your land, blah blah blah. Well everything was fine and dandy down in rebland. We have no problem. If there is a good resource there...go for it. Have fun. We just got a rude awakening. There are two rebel PAs that have 2 rebel bases up each. Both PAs woke up to the fact that imperials had placed a house right outside the rebel bases and were exploiting the cover of the private home. The would pop out for a second or two, shoot a few times and then pop back inside to heal. A group of 6 imps held up a siege for 3 hours with around 20 Rebels outside (more at times). The rebels were able to kill any imps trying to join the battle...but the people who were already inside the house would get incaped and possibly die, only to be draged inside and rezed. We couldn't touch them. While one set of bases held out thanks to rebels who showed up...the other set was attacked later using the same tactic by a group of 5 imperials and the two bases were stripped and then blown up permenantly. There is now an imperial house sitting atop the ruin proclaiming their exploited victory. This kind of pathetic exploit...where 6 people can hold out and actually WIN over a huge force of PC and NPCs just sickens me. THEY DIDN"T EVEN USE THEIR AT-STS! They didn't need to! They had all the exploits they needed with the house, screw the AT-STs. My PA had decided to put up two large bases next week and have now halted all plans for it. We consider bases to be broken at the moment thanks to this horrid exploit and the merry usage of it by imperials. I have no doubt that that tactic will lead to further exploits of it on imperial bases by pissed off rebels. Our PA has decided to abstain from PvP faction based warfare for now and refuses to use exploits. We will gain our glory honorably and hope others will do likewise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterEd Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Sorry to hear about your loss. This is a pure act of cowardice. The Imperials knew they were going to lose, but decided to use a glitch as an advantage, hiding in a house, being resurrected or brought up from an incapp. This is low...very low... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EwokWarrior Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Something kinda similar happened on Wanderhome, outside of AH one time, me and my friends ran across two imps about 100 meters outside of AH, they ran into the "Imperial Safehouse", we surrounded the house, then they poison us through the door!! Imperials are cowards, especially when there are small raids on Bestine, they find it necessary to bring out at-sts and what not. And P.S. they weren't of another faction who placed harvesters on MY land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoplitan Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Sorry, but after all the cheap crap I've seen rebels pull (like stalking newbie coverts until they get a tef so they can gang rape them) I just have to marvel at how they exploited the system and out-smarted you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrick Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 You can buy or own land in SWG just the land you build on. This does suck though, that is a total cheap exploit, /bug report it and get every member of you PA and friends that helped that night. Building an opposite faction base nearby to retreat to is one thing, using a restricted access house is another. Where are the big bad, overpowering Imperials now? AT-ST? Bring em on and watch em get smoked! I remember hearing something about how weak the Rebels are? My PA took a group of 5 or 6 of us to a Imp base and had a great fight with the NPC and PC Imp defending it. They died, we died, we all cloned or rezzed and regrouped. There was no need to hide like a vrelt in a house. Neoplitan, if it was you on the other end you would complain about this weak exploit too. And if you a newb without any kind of high profession weapons skills, don't go overt unless you like getting you ass kicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breetai Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 I am a Rebal, but it is both side's useing these tactic's. It is not just one fraction. I have had imp's chase me around as well until the could attack me also. 7 imp's with creature's against me and my 2 creature's, but I do not complain about it. I just clone at Achorhead get a group up and go after revenge. The problem is Imp's will blam the Rebal's and the Rebal's will blam the Imp's, when in reality it is both. Their is not one fraction that play's "straight " and one that don't. A lot of people play " dirty " in this game. I do play fair, along with my my guild ( StarC), but most do not. the bad think is when these thing's are fixed, player's will find other thing's and other way's to do the same thing's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith 8 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by Neoplitan Sorry, but after all the cheap crap I've seen rebels pull (like stalking newbie coverts until they get a tef so they can gang rape them) I just have to marvel at how they exploited the system and out-smarted you. omg... im sorry that you said that.. but thats just pathetic. how can you judge one rebel and asume EVERY SINGLE rebel is the same? same goes for imperials. i have been raped in my time as a rebel.. it was tottaly unfair. but i know now.. that they are the rotten apples in a good bunch. there are and will always be a very few people that RUIN a game for someone. But DarthFergie.. im behind yah man,.. this has got to stop... Funny thing is that i used this exploit almost emidiatly on NPC's and creatures from the day i started this game.. but never on PVP!. i hope they get this fixed soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyuber Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 So there were 20 people but no commando's to light them on fire, no bounty hunters with their abilities, nobody with knockdown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impala Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 The devs could fix it by letting PC destroy PC homes. This would make anyone think twice about putting a home in an area were they are the minority. I for one think it would make the game more realistic and players would be dependent on their faction for protection regardless of guilds or PA's. But what am I saying the devs will never do that because someone will cry the first time their house gets destroyed because they put it in the wrong era, but it would make the War more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matsui Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 this debate right here as it stands, is completely useless. what you're trying to say is that cover and concealment is cheating. i have been lurkin around in here for a while and occasionally find the need to say something, and here's one of those times. a LOT of people justify anything by saying this is a war. people right here in THIS thread have used that excuse for things. but in a war, cover, concealment, and any way to get away from enemy rounds is expected and required. oh, but not this time. suddenly there's an enemy held building near your own and it's cowardice. that's a crap viewpoint. all you have there is a "not in my backyard" thing going. im reading this thread and it is painfully obvious that people are unhappy with a perfectly good, real life (mostly) military tactic IN A WAR. which is of course nonsensical. this isn't an exploit, and it's not a bug. it's a tactic. what do you think foxholes are for? it's a tactic I personally wouldn't like pulled on me, but hey, if a battle is going badly, TAKE OFF. I have no need to die and be cloned if a battle is going badly. i leave. exploits, by their very nature, are the result of bad code. restricting access to a buidling is a feature, and if there is an undiscovered use for it, that's not a bug. personally i no longer have any need for pvp, and all im going to do is have fun and run missions and build my character, and try hard to follow the monthly story. if i have to occasionally go overt to use my stormtroopers to accomplish a task in the story, then i'll do that. but pvp is for the birds as it stands, so im not bothering. so screw tactics and "bugs" and "exploits". i have complained loudly and publicly in these very forums that there are alot of @$$holes in this game, like every other game. and the replies i get to that are usually along the lines of "deal, it's a war. " since i can't win by trying to appeal to people with "since it's a game there's no reason not to be reasonable", i am going to say it too: It's a war, deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impala Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Your right concellment is a tactic. In war you do want to get out of the way of a round. Fox holes are used and defended, because they can be lost. A player house is not a fox hole it has no need to be defended. Treat it similar to a scout camp, sit and be peaceful and the camp works for the scout, fight and it's useless, a waste of time. So in our case here build your house, but fire at the base and your house should become a public battelfield for as long as you have a TEF, other wise why build a base, just build a house were you can raid some newbie getting faction points at no risk to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gog marduk Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 ya but could you possibly build a house a few yards away from your enemy? that is the question no you couldnt. there needs to be a zone around the forward bases that wont allow for it.and if you couldnt shoot through the ground this game would be a hell of alot better there is many ditches and holes that would be great for the pvp aspect of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurofighter Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 matsui; so what your kinda saying here is that: In a war a soldier could just run to a house (possibly his own), lock it up and NOONE could EVER gain entry to it but still the one inside can just throw granades and **** out the window or pop out of the door, pop yer head and head back in, and there is not a damn **** the enemy can do about it. You say concealment and cover is reality, indeed it is, but so is banging down ppl's doors, blowing them up etc. So until that is possible it IS unfair, in a certain way, to conceal yourself in a perfectly locked house without anyone entering. Of course if this was sometime to be implemented it would have to be like the covert/overt thing that you could only attack overt houses etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 this debate right here as it stands, is completely useless. what you're trying to say is that cover and concealment is cheating. It's not. However, if you think over this issue more than ones, you will come to the same conclussion like most of us here. i have been lurkin around in here for a while and occasionally find the need to say something, and here's one of those times. a LOT of people justify anything by saying this is a war. people right here in THIS thread have used that excuse for things. but in a war, cover, concealment, and any way to get away from enemy rounds is expected and required. oh, but not this time. suddenly there's an enemy held building near your own and it's cowardice. that's a crap viewpoint. all you have there is a "not in my backyard" thing going. Yes, it is a crappy viewpoint, IF said building was removable or able to be blown up, or like someone here said earlier, the door or windows be knocked down. Can it? That's a big no on all those points. im reading this thread and it is painfully obvious that people are unhappy with a perfectly good, real life (mostly) military tactic IN A WAR. which is of course nonsensical. Again, said building cannot be entered in any way, witout concent, or blown into smithereens. this isn't an exploit, and it's not a bug. it's a tactic. what do you think foxholes are for? it's a tactic I personally wouldn't like pulled on me, but hey, if a battle is going badly, TAKE OFF. I have no need to die and be cloned if a battle is going badly. i leave. Foxholes are possible to remove. Said building is not ... ever. exploits, by their very nature, are the result of bad code. restricting access to a buidling is a feature, and if there is an undiscovered use for it, that's not a bug. It's not a bug, no, but it's still an exploit. Anything you use selfishly and/or unethical are exploiting. We all have done it. But most people are able to figure out when and when not to exploit a feature/bug/said building. i have complained loudly and publicly in these very forums that there are alot of @$$holes in this game, like every other game. and the replies i get to that are usually along the lines of "deal, it's a war. " Well, guess what, people, any tactic has a counter-tactic. You just need to figure it out. This "tactic", however, does not. Can you remove the occupants? Maybe, if your counter-tactic is well planned and rehearsed. Can you remove the threat? In other words, the building itself? No, you can't, whereas in a real war you can. So to anyone that uses the line "Deal, it's a war!" really hasn't thought this over properly. (current issue, not all issues. I've used the line myself plenty of times, but that's when there actually is a possiblity to deal with it. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matsui Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 nah, i still can't really call it unfair. if i was playing halo and hid behind a wall, my enemy really wouldnt have anything to say; it's cover. there's a little addition to the equation in the admission restriction to the house. that's a factor that makes things annoying, but still hardly unfair. and i STILL don't see why you would continue to play with someone you considered unfair, though. find some other overt to wipe off the planet. don't adapt your gameplay to theirs, or A) you'll encourage their behavior B) you'll play the way THEY want you to, resulting in rants and bad feelings. the ENTIRE pvp debate, no matter what form it takes, boils down to "i don't want to play the way he plays" whoever takes advantage of whatever bug, or brilliant tactic, or exploit, is always gonna hack off someone else WHO DIDNT THINK OF IT FIRST. If you're desperate to play the exact same way everyone else is, then use their tactics. if you are disappointed by how they play, DONT PLAY WITH THEM. There are things in the world that the authorities, (be they devs or police or politicians or game manufacturers ) have no way, and should not have a way, to control. some things people just have to consider for themselves as to whether or not a particular action or tactic is a decent thing or a di** thing to do. people have been taken in by the tactics cited and are now mad they got wiped. too bad. i get the everlovin SH@@ kicked out of me evertime i go overt to use my st' in a mission. i personally don't give a crap about pvp. gettin the everlovin sh$$ kicked out of me is not my idea of fun. but you know, when a battle is going badly or a person is being a jerk, i freakin leave. i have no time for jerks. if they dont play like i play, i leave. im not here to play by their rules. why are you? i occasionally duel, but that has rules laid down in front of it. i saw quite an honorable duel just last night waiting for the shuttle. so there are people who understand fun is fun and fair is fair, and not screaming to the devs to make things easier for them. find those people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matsui Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 should anyone decide to let buildings be destructible, you're gonna open a whole OTHER can o worms that likely shouldnt be opened. think about how bad people can be when they lose their pets or driods or atst's or anything they worked for. now image all that against the cost (or effort) of building a house. do we really want our structures, whatever type, to be wiped just like that? just for a battle? just because of a few jerks? it still comes back to individual behavior and jerks. this is STILL something the dev's should leave alone. the fewer people fall into this tactic, the sooner people will realize it's pointless to use, as their prey will see them as the di##s they are. maybe they will even stop being di**s. out of choice. not because the had of god came down and made them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impala Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Why should anyone stop if there is not a consequince for there action. Hacking the game to give you better stats and make you indestructable has it consequince...PRISON. That's why people don't do it unless they think they wont get caught. Will in the game the same thing exist on some levels. You don't duel a bounty hunter if your a novice artisan, consequince is your dead. You don't take on 15 NPC that are stronger than you with realizing your going to die, and you should risk your home by placing it infront of an enemy bas unless your will to loose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mex Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Sorry for off-topic but : I have to get this game it sounds awesome, houses vehicles animals that sounds all so good. Plus wars? Holy moley. I like the sound of this! [but sorry for your loss Fergie. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EsahC Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Im afraid it is nothing but an exploit. In time you wont beable to build your buildings close to opposing factions, you have to be a certian distance from them at any given time. There is nothing tactical about running into a house and firing knowing you cant get hit because you can restrict people from getting in your house, and while in it you cant be attacked....not an exploit? There is nothing tactical about that. Any moron can sit in a house pop out fire and go back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matsui Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 not a doubt--any moron can indeed pop out of a house and then back in after firing. but people keep dodging the question--WHY DO YOU WANNA PLAY WITH MORONS!?!??!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impala Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 It sounds like in the orginal situation that the base had no choice, you but your base up, they put the house up. Can you even move a base? If not your stuck playing with them or loosing the base and moving hoping no one will follow or do the same thing, which it sounds like they have. This community style of game means you will run into jerks and have to deal with them, so let the Dev's give us away to deal with them. I would hate to see a great game go out because a few people make it impossible for certian features to be pratical because they found an exploit of a good intentioned feature. So let us blow up there house! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diables Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 all they need to do is have some system set up so players could let the devs know who is cheating. take a screenshot, send it to them and then they should send the guilty person a nasty email saying dont do it again. if they do it again delete their account. end of problems. edit: is there a way to record the game? i know with counter strike you can record a demo of the game and that would be very helpful to catch them in the act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 nah, i still can't really call it unfair. if i was playing halo and hid behind a wall, my enemy really wouldnt have anything to say; it's cover. You're missing the point from the very first line here. Again, can that cover be breached? Can it? It can?!? Well, I'll be damned, it's nothing like the old pop in and out of your house tactic then. That's what I thought. Getting behind a wall in Halo might not be concidered fair by some (not by me mind you) but atleast I have a damn good chance at countering it, compared to this .. this ... "tactic". and i STILL don't see why you would continue to play with someone you considered unfair, though. find some other overt to wipe off the planet. don't adapt your gameplay to theirs, or A) you'll encourage their behavior B) you'll play the way THEY want you to, resulting in rants and bad feelings. Or C) You pack up and move, which is one of their goal. Then they'll hunt you or your members down to get the new location and bam, there's that house again. They'll do this until you are so annoyed about it that you go neutral, or leave the game. They don't care, that's a victory for them, while they kick back and think they've won something, while in reality there was nothing the players could do, and nothing the Devs would do. Either give the players a chance to counter it effectivelly so we can tell jerks they can't come here and think they can do anything they want just because they can and get away with it, or bring out the Hand of God and tell them that way. but people keep dodging the question--WHY DO YOU WANNA PLAY WITH MORONS!?!??!?! Why would I play with these guys? Well, I'm not PvPing at the moment, but in this situation here fergie and Co don't have much of a choice. They either get rid of them, or they move, which eventually the same thing will happen again. You can only retreat so much before you gotta do something about it. But there's not much you can do about it as of yet. In fact, there's pretty much nothing you can do about it. the fewer people fall into this tactic, the sooner people will realize it's pointless to use, as their prey will see them as the di##s they are. maybe they will even stop being di**s. out of choice. not because the had of god came down and made them. Jerks will always be jerks. Nothing can change that, because they like being jerks. It gives them a feel of power by doing this. You back off, they have won. They rule the battlefield then, and dictate your life. All because they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthfergie Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 Look, we had master commandos there and Master Doc/Combat Meds. We had everything there. We killed them several times and incapped them all the time...but woops...<Drag> <Drag> <Drag> and they are back inside the house and are rezed. Thing is, they decided, screw facing a seige of 20 something people. Time to log out. They logged and whenever the log on they take out more on the bases and that's alot to take on considering the massive work that has gone into building their base. Loads of turrets and 60+ NPCs patroling all over...so for the imps they are getting some cheap*** fac points. The only reason the bases havn't come down is because SO many people use those bases that there is barely ever a time when there isn't a PC there and several PCs within 300m. It's a very active base for missions and things. But the other set of bases weren't as lucky with another IMP PA using the same tactic and now a house sits upon the site with the title something like, "Small Imperial House, That didn't cost 60k fac points." It has sabatoged that part of the game for us and my guild refuses to put up bases, turrets, minefields, etc until it is fixed because of 2 imperial PAs using this tactic liberally. I havn't heard anything about it since that night...so it is possible CSRs came in and did something about it. I don't know because I've been pissed off enough not to have gone back to Corellia for several days now and have been grinding CH points and collecting BE resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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